Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread: Pats destroy the Browns

[DaBruinz]

Absolutely. Mediocre staff around BB resulting in terrible drafts from 2013-2019. And extra urgency because Brady went off to win a 7th ring.

This past draft is a home run for BB with Eliot Wolf and Groh helping him in the war room. It makes a huge difference having actually competent smart people around BB, as opposed to 3 roommates from john carroll from 2013-2019. The same minds that thought it made sense in 2020 to start NKeal and bench Meyers, start Michel and bench Harris, in 2021 to start Durant and bench Karras.

The other 2 great drafting periods for BB were 2009-2012 with Reese and O'Brien there, and 2001-2004 with Pioli / Weiss / Crennel.

Gotta love your pathetic ignorance. You really think that Belichick would keep incompetent people around? That's what you're saying.

Reese has ZERO to do with scouting and drafting for this team. He was the contract guy.
O'Brien was mediocre, at best, when it comes to personnel. Just look at what he did in Houston..

Meyers wasn't benched in 2020 to start the season. He was injured, you lying moron.
Harris wasn't benched in favor of Michel. Harris hadn't earned a spot yet.

This imbecilic statement that Karras was benched for Durant is even more proof you don't know wtf you are talking about. One had nothing to do with the other.

BTW, I destroyed this imbecilic theory of yours that the drafts of 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 were bad. They weren't. And here you are spewing your stupidity about it still. That's the definition of INSANE.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Absolutely. Mediocre staff around BB resulting in terrible drafts from 2013-2019. And extra urgency because Brady went off to win a 7th ring.

This past draft is a home run for BB with Eliot Wolf and Groh helping him in the war room. It makes a huge difference having actually competent smart people around BB, as opposed to 3 roommates from john carroll from 2013-2019. The same minds that thought it made sense in 2020 to start NKeal and bench Meyers, start Michel and bench Harris, in 2021 to start Durant and bench Karras.

The other 2 great drafting periods for BB were 2009-2012 with Reese and O'Brien there, and 2001-2004 with Pioli / Weiss / Crennel.

what an idiotic comment. You act as if every draft Bill has ever done was bad until Wolf and Groh got here. Sure Bill has had some bad drafts, but he's also had some really good ones in the past 20 years. And once again, NE nearing the top of the AFC while Tommy Boy is headed for retirement soon.

 

[masterbouncer]

Apologies if this has already been linked, but "Baldy's Breakdown" shows what a great play KVN made to cause the fumble that Uche whiffed on.

Kyle Van Noy shows love on Twitter for a film breakdown of an underrated play

Kyle Van Noy was stoked to see someone appreciating the subtleties of his game.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

how in the world could you miss the ball there and just sail over it?

 

[Bill Lee]

So the Miami loss caused us to lose control of HFA.

I thought it was the Tampa loss? (ducks!)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

as if every draft Bill has ever done was bad

I literally wrote the exact opposite of this. BB has drafted great from 2001-2004, 2009-2012, and it looks like back to drafting well again with this draft class and perhaps the one prior as well. But 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 were absolutely horrid, go back and look it up. It's why we had to splurge $240M this off-season and also in 2007 make a bunch of trades to offset the bare cupboard.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Reese has ZERO to do with scouting and drafting for this team. He was the contract guy.

Why are you bending over backwards to give no credit to Reese or O'Brien. Those 2009-2012 great drafts built the foundation for the next 3 championship teams. Reese definitely was evaluating players, he wasn't just pushing papers on contracts. And O'Brien wasn't bad in Houston until Easterby showed up.

But we all know why, because you're an organizational stooge who still argues that the patriots draft awesome at wide receiver, that 2013-2019 were good drafts, and also that NKeal Harry is a good player. You have no credibility when it comes to evaluating Patriot drafts.

.

 

[50-yard-line]

I literally wrote the exact opposite of this. BB has drafted great from 2001-2004, 2009-2012, and it looks like back to drafting well again with this draft class and perhaps the one prior as well. But 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 were absolutely horrid, go back and look it up. It's why we had to splurge $240M this off-season and also in 2007 make a bunch of trades to offset the bare cupboard.

.

Throwing a number without context is deceptive.

Pittsburgh splurged $112,000,000 ($80,000,000 guaranteed) for five years of service for TJ Watt (who's played 7.5 games and is week to week with hip and knee injuries) for 5 years of service, filling one slot on their team.

Doing a quick count, the Pats got almost 10x times the years of service, filling multiple starting slots for multiple years, including both TEs, two WRs, a FB, C, swing OL, back-up QB, 3 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, a DB, and a K. No VOID years, no cap hell going forward, few draft picks sacrificed, no problem.

Splurge is a stupid word in a league where there's a hard cap and you have to spend near it every year, as it implies "extravagance."

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Throwing a number without context is deceptive.

Didn't you just throw out numbers yesterday saying $12M for a TE, $10M for a LT and intentionally left out the names of the players?

But yes you're right. If there's cap room in 2022 and the team can sign JC Jackson to big money and that we're all fine, then that's great. I'm on board right now with celebrating 4 straight great weeks so far and we can revisit in the off-season.

 

[bresna]

Mediocre staff around BB resulting in terrible drafts from 2013-2019.

Look at all of these "terrible" players. Every one a bum! Who would want any of them?

All Pro players in bold.

2019
1 N'Keal Harry
2 Joejuan Williams
3 Chase Winovich
3 Damien Harris
3 Yodny Cajuste
4 Hjalte Froholdt
4 Jarrett Stidham
5 Byron Cowart
5 Jake Bailey
7 Ken Webster

2018
1 Isaiah Wynn
1 Sony Michel
2 Duke Dawson
5 Ja'Whaun Bentley
6 Christian Sam
6 Braxton Berrios
7 Danny Etling
7 Keion Crossen
7 Ryan Izzo

2017
3 Derek Rivers
3 Antonio Garcia
4 Deatrich Wise Jr.
6 Conor McDermott

2016
2 Cyrus Jones
3 Joe Thuney
3 Jacoby Brissett
3 Vincent Valentine
4 Malcolm Mitchell
6 Kamu Grugier-Hill
6 Elandon Roberts
6 Ted Karras
7 Devin Lucien

2015
1 Malcom Brown
2 Jordan Richards
3 Geneo Grissom
4 Trey Flowers
4 Tre' Jackson
4 Shaq Mason
5 Joe Cardona
6 A.J. Derby
7 Darryl Roberts
7 Xzavier ****son

2014
1 Dominique Easley
2 Jimmy Garoppolo
4 Bryan Stork
4 James White
4 Cameron Fleming
6 Jon Halapio
6 Zach Moore
6 Jemea Thomas
7 Jeremy Gallon

2013
2 Jamie Collins
2 Aaron Dobson
3 Logan Ryan
3 Duron Harmon
4 Josh Boyce
7 Michael Buchanan
7 Steve Beauharnais

 

[50-yard-line]

Thanks for summarizing the numbers.

That's a real ugly list right there.

A left tackle is well-worth 10.4 million.

The other 3 have much lesser cap hits THIS year (while they're carrying big contracts for HT, McCourty, the Gilmore $10+ cap hit and the other $20m in dead money), which is why it looks like that.

So, it's only ugly if you turn the prism to chew harder on that bone.

Expect an extension for Godchaux, and maybe Agholor, if he wants one.

 

[50-yard-line]

Didn't you just throw out numbers yesterday saying $12M for a TE, $10M for a LT and intentionally left out the names of the players?

But yes you're right. If there's cap room in 2022 and the team can sign JC Jackson to big money and that we're all fine, then that's great. I'm on board right now with celebrating 4 straight great weeks so far and we can revisit in the off-season.

Intentionally leave out the names? Get outa here.

Wynn is worth 10.4 - a bargain at 10.4. He will be their starting LT.
Godchaux is worth his contract. He fills a huge need here.
Smith hasn't lived up to it - yet. But I'm glad he's here, yes indeed.

The team will sign JC IF BB thinks he's worth the money they're going to have to dole out to keep him. it's that simple. They can do it easily. Whether they will or not...well, have you really not been watching this team long enough to figure it out?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

People focus too much on "talent" (which is just is basically being able to throw far while running) and not enough on pure Quarterbacking skills

I was high on everything else with Mac Jones, and his arm concerned me early on, but it looks Drew Brees/Matt Ryan level, which is good enough.

He has some amazing throws in that Browns game.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Look at all of these "terrible" players. Every one a bum! Who would want any of them?

All Pro players in bold.

2019
1 N'Keal Harry
2 Joejuan Williams
3 Chase Winovich
3 Damien Harris
3 Yodny Cajuste
4 Hjalte Froholdt
4 Jarrett Stidham
5 Byron Cowart
5 Jake Bailey
7 Ken Webster

2018
1 Isaiah Wynn
1 Sony Michel
2 Duke Dawson
5 Ja'Whaun Bentley
6 Christian Sam
6 Braxton Berrios
7 Danny Etling
7 Keion Crossen
7 Ryan Izzo

2017
3 Derek Rivers
3 Antonio Garcia
4 Deatrich Wise Jr.
6 Conor McDermott

2016
2 Cyrus Jones
3 Joe Thuney
3 Jacoby Brissett
3 Vincent Valentine
4 Malcolm Mitchell
6 Kamu Grugier-Hill
6 Elandon Roberts
6 Ted Karras
7 Devin Lucien

2015
1 Malcom Brown
2 Jordan Richards
3 Geneo Grissom
4 Trey Flowers
4 Tre' Jackson
4 Shaq Mason
5 Joe Cardona
6 A.J. Derby
7 Darryl Roberts
7 Xzavier ****son

2014
1 Dominique Easley
2 Jimmy Garoppolo
4 Bryan Stork
4 James White
4 Cameron Fleming
6 Jon Halapio
6 Zach Moore
6 Jemea Thomas
7 Jeremy Gallon

2013
2 Jamie Collins
2 Aaron Dobson
3 Logan Ryan
3 Duron Harmon
4 Josh Boyce
7 Michael Buchanan
7 Steve Beauharnais

Legitimate contributors who have had decent NFL careers and/or helped their team win championships in bold.

...UFAs Malcolm Butler, JC Jackson and David Andrews.

To say the NEP sucked at acquiring talent during this period when the highest pick was Rd 1 #23 is an uneducated statement.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wynn is worth 10.4 - a bargain at 10.4. He will be their starting LT.
Godchaux is worth his contract. He fills a huge need here.
Smith hasn't lived up to it - yet. But I'm glad he's here, yes indeed.

OK it's clear you're another stooge, and also this is a topic we can revisit in 2 months, don't need to talk about it now. But yes you intentionally left the names out prior.

1. Wynn leads the team in QB pressure this season, and every prior season the guy can't stay healthy at all. You're talking about left tackle as a position being worth 10M, yes. But this specific player? Won't look great. If he starts 16 games and isn't terrible, then yes 10M is fine.
2. Godchaux isn't worth his 8 figure cap room next year. But again, NT is a huge need. You're very fixated on the position but blind to the fact the player doesn't actually fill the need. The runD does look better but that's because Barmore is getting the #1 most snaps on the DLine now compared to the first month.
3. Smith's cap number is $14M, not great, I think he's a skilled player just being used wrong (a common theme in this offense).

Your argument can't just be "X is a valuable position" so "Y dollars is fine". Yes these positions are important and if adequately filled, worth paying dollars for. But you completely skip over the specific player making the money and that they haven't proven to be worth the big money.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Look at all of these "terrible" players. Every one a bum! Who would want any of them?

All Pro players in bold.

2019
1 N'Keal Harry
2 Joejuan Williams
3 Chase Winovich
3 Damien Harris
3 Yodny Cajuste
4 Hjalte Froholdt
4 Jarrett Stidham
5 Byron Cowart
5 Jake Bailey
7 Ken Webster

2018
1 Isaiah Wynn
1 Sony Michel
2 Duke Dawson
5 Ja'Whaun Bentley
6 Christian Sam
6 Braxton Berrios
7 Danny Etling
7 Keion Crossen
7 Ryan Izzo

2017
3 Derek Rivers
3 Antonio Garcia
4 Deatrich Wise Jr.
6 Conor McDermott

2016
2 Cyrus Jones
3 Joe Thuney
3 Jacoby Brissett
3 Vincent Valentine
4 Malcolm Mitchell
6 Kamu Grugier-Hill
6 Elandon Roberts
6 Ted Karras
7 Devin Lucien

2015
1 Malcom Brown
2 Jordan Richards
3 Geneo Grissom
4 Trey Flowers
4 Tre' Jackson
4 Shaq Mason
5 Joe Cardona
6 A.J. Derby
7 Darryl Roberts
7 Xzavier ****son

2014
1 Dominique Easley
2 Jimmy Garoppolo
4 Bryan Stork
4 James White
4 Cameron Fleming
6 Jon Halapio
6 Zach Moore
6 Jemea Thomas
7 Jeremy Gallon

2013
2 Jamie Collins
2 Aaron Dobson
3 Logan Ryan
3 Duron Harmon
4 Josh Boyce
7 Michael Buchanan
7 Steve Beauharnais

This is worth replying to for posterity sake. You really want to go down this list and argue they drafted well from 2013 to 2019? One of the worst teams in the entire league during this period in terms of guys who became good NFL players.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Legitimate contributors who have had decent NFL careers and/or helped their team win championships in bold.

...UFAs Malcolm Butler, JC Jackson and David Andrews.

To say the NEP sucked at acquiring talent during this period when the highest pick was Rd 1 #23 is an uneducated statement.

Re-pasting these guys here as players RobertWeathers has highlighted as good draft picks:

Keion Crossen
Vincent Valentine
Kamu Grugier-Hill
Elandon Roberts
Darryl Roberts
Bryan Stork
Cameron Fleming

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re-pasting these guys here as players RobertWeathers has highlighted as good draft picks:

Keion Crossen
Vincent Valentine
Kamu Grugier-Hill
Elandon Roberts
Darryl Roberts
Bryan Stork
Cameron Fleming

I sure did.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Anyone else spot Hjalte Froholdt on Sunday?

On my number one principle of offensive lineman evaluation (look for the guy with the coolest name) I was devastated when he got cut. Now I've only got Yodney Cajuste to hang on to and he doesn't look super-secure.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Lol, guy is 10 yards left and 10yds behind the play and Wynn lays on top of him to ensure he goes NO WHERE

There's no better feeling for an OL'm then putting a man on the ground and laying on top of him. For a few reasons actually. OL'm often don't win their matchups but survive. Doing that to a defender is as close to a win as possible.

 

[bresna]

This is worth replying to for posterity sake. You really want to go down this list and argue they drafted well from 2013 to 2019? One of the worst teams in the entire league during this period in terms of guys who became good NFL players.

You are the one who labeled these players as "terrible". Geez... I wonder how Super Bowl LI would have come out if James White was drafted by another team? Or Malcolm Mitchell? I wonder if the Patriots would have come back *twice* from 14 points down if Duron Harmon hadn't picked off Flacco? Would the Pats have beaten the Rams in LII without Trey Flowers or Sony Michel? According to you, these players are all terrible.

You are a troll. Trolls troll to get a reaction. I guess I fell for it.