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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
3/15 is a "big contract" for a WR in what universe?

After further consideration... (Sorry for the appearance of avoiding the comment; it's been a busy past couple of days and I've been constantly playing refresh & catch-up)

Although Bourne's name appears high on the list of FA WRs below, his AAV & Total Guaranteed amounts are indeed lower than some immediately below him... And after further research on the production of those in that general bracket, he is well in-line with them and in some cases has exceeded them...

I have now removed Bourne's name from the Slightly Over-paid list in the Spending Spree thread and have switched him to the About Right list... He has helped compensate for the signing of Agholor in a similar way that Meyers has helped compensate for the drafting of Harry.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Didn't you just throw out numbers yesterday saying $12M for a TE, $10M for a LT and intentionally left out the names of the players?

But yes you're right. If there's cap room in 2022 and the team can sign JC Jackson to big money and that we're all fine, then that's great. I'm on board right now with celebrating 4 straight great weeks so far and we can revisit in the off-season.
Hey SFBs.. Other people on this board know exactly who the Pats LT is. They know who the 12M TE is. Just because you're not capable of inferring who he's talking about doesn't mean the rest of us are.. OH. And he was writing that in response to the post YOU made where you NAMED the players.. So, it's really easy to understand who he's referencing.

You'll have to forgive everyone for laughing at the LIE of your last sentence. If you were truly on board with celebrating 4 straight great weeks, you wouldn't have been spewing the garbage that led to this exchange to begin with.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
OK it's clear you're another stooge, and also this is a topic we can revisit in 2 months, don't need to talk about it now. But yes you intentionally left the names out prior.

1. Wynn leads the team in QB pressure this season, and every prior season the guy can't stay healthy at all. You're talking about left tackle as a position being worth 10M, yes. But this specific player? Won't look great. If he starts 16 games and isn't terrible, then yes 10M is fine.
2. Godchaux isn't worth his 8 figure cap room next year. But again, NT is a huge need. You're very fixated on the position but blind to the fact the player doesn't actually fill the need. The runD does look better but that's because Barmore is getting the #1 most snaps on the DLine now compared to the first month.
3. Smith's cap number is $14M, not great, I think he's a skilled player just being used wrong (a common theme in this offense).

Your argument can't just be "X is a valuable position" so "Y dollars is fine". Yes these positions are important and if adequately filled, worth paying dollars for. But you completely skip over the specific player making the money and that they haven't proven to be worth the big money.
Stooge, lol.

Your arrogance is only exceeded by your stubbornness. Great look there, dude.

Did I really have to say "Wynn" for you to know who the LT is? Or Godchaux and Smith, since those were the guys I was responding about? Hang onto that thread!

If Wynn starts 16 games then 10m is "fine." Lol, wtf do you think a left tackle is worth? There's a reason why almost every left tackle in the league was drafted in the first round, many top 10. Wynn next year will be the 23rd highest paid, iirc, and he's better than most when he's healthy, the tough start to this year notwithstanding. Don't take my word for it: go look at the salaries and recent contracts. If Wynn starts 16 games and plays the way he's playing right now, 10m is a freaking steal. He's another one I expect them to try to extend for a very long time. he had a couple of flukey injuries - it happens (but at least when it happens to him, it isn't costing the team the kind of change Watt will cost Pittsburgh per game. Holy Jesus!.

You gonna start with your "Barmore taking Godchaux snaps garbage again? Other than the two Jets games, God's snaps have been consistently in the 50-60% range. What is it with you that once you start down a road, you'll chew that bone until it's dust? His cap hit next year is high because his cap hit this year isn't - which is also why, he's a prime extension candidate. Who do you think they're going to throw in there for cheaper $? (My hope is they draft a blue chipper this year, maybe the kid from Georgia, in the second round...then give him a year learning behind God and Guy.) The Pats have also been going three large a bit - Guy-God-Wise, or Guy-Davis-God. Whatever they're doing, it's working, and since it's working, complaining about a sub-10m contract in a critical position is the kind of thinking that BB loves...for other head coaches.

We agree on Smith regarding usage, except that I think 12.5 (his AAV) is going to be dirt cheap for a TE in the very near future. Reminds me of when Bill gave Arrington 4/16 and the board went nuts...and then, lo and behold, slot became more valued and that contract was GREAT for the Pats within a year-and-a half.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Re-pasting these guys here as players RobertWeathers has highlighted as good draft picks:

Keion Crossen
Vincent Valentine
Kamu Grugier-Hill
Elandon Roberts
Darryl Roberts
Bryan Stork
Cameron Fleming
How was Fleming NOT a good pick?
How was Elandon Roberts NOT a good pick?
How was Stork NOT a good pick?

How ere Grugier-Hill and Darryl Roberts not good picks?

Valentine was the only pick there that you could take issue with, though he was a Compensatory 3rd round pick. Stork was a 4th rounder and gave the Pats a solid rookie season, including starting a game at RT for the Pats against the Giants.

Crossen saw limited snaps as a rookie then netted the Pats a 6th rounder (1 round ahead of where he was drafted). He was traded because the Pats would have lost him on waivers otherwise due to the depth of their secondary at the time.

Fleming was an excellent pick for the Pats. He saw snaps in every season with the Pats. He backed up at both the guard and tackle spots and saw 20 starts as an injury replacement during his 4 years with the Patriots. He's since gone on Dallas, NYG, and Denver.

Grugier-Hill and Roberts were players the Pats tried to sneak onto the PS. Grugier-Hill was grabbed by the Eagles and Roberts by the Jets. Grugier-Hill is regarded as a top 10 special teams player in the league and has seen spot starting with the Eagles, Phins and Texans.

D. Roberts spent 4 years with the Jets, slowly climging to be a starter.. He's spent a year in Detroit and then time with the WFT.

Elandon Roberts showed himself to be a true professional when he stepped up for the Pats to learn the FB position when they lost both Develin and Johnson to injury. Roberts was a JAG LB for the Pats, but he did whatever was asked of him despite his limitations.

Your attempt to besmirch @RobertWeathers is extremely laughable.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Stooge, lol.

Your arrogance is only exceeded by your stubbornness. Great look there, dude.

Did I really have to say "Wynn" for you to know who the LT is? Or Godchaux and Smith, since those were the guys I was responding about? Hang onto that thread!

If Wynn starts 16 games then 10m is "fine." Lol, wtf do you think a left tackle is worth? There's a reason why almost every left tackle in the league was drafted in the first round, many top 10. Wynn next year will be the 23rd highest paid, iirc, and he's better than most when he's healthy, the tough start to this year notwithstanding. Don't take my word for it: go look at the salaries and recent contracts. If Wynn starts 16 games and plays the way he's playing right now, 10m is a freaking steal. He's another one I expect them to try to extend for a very long time. he had a couple of flukey injuries - it happens (but at least when it happens to him, it isn't costing the team the kind of change Watt will cost Pittsburgh per game. Holy Jesus!.

You gonna start with your "Barmore taking Godchaux snaps garbage again? Other than the two Jets games, God's snaps have been consistently in the 50-60% range. What is it with you that once you start down a road, you'll chew that bone until it's dust? His cap hit next year is high because his cap hit this year isn't - which is also why, he's a prime extension candidate. Who do you think they're going to throw in there for cheaper $? (My hope is they draft a blue chipper this year, maybe the kid from Georgia, in the second round...then give him a year learning behind God and Guy.) The Pats have also been going three large a bit - Guy-God-Wise, or Guy-Davis-God. Whatever they're doing, it's working, and since it's working, complaining about a sub-10m contract in a critical position is the kind of thinking that BB loves...for other head coaches.

We agree on Smith regarding usage, except that I think 12.5 (his AAV) is going to be dirt cheap for a TE in the very near future. Reminds me of when Bill gave Arrington 4/16 and the board went nuts...and then, lo and behold, slot became more valued and that contract was GREAT for the Pats within a year-and-a half.

Barmore's snaps increased dramatically and the runD getting better over time is related to Barmore playing the most snaps now of any DLineman, over the last month.

Real glad we have Barmore.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
How was Fleming NOT a good pick?
How was Elandon Roberts NOT a good pick?
How was Stork NOT a good pick?

How ere Grugier-Hill and Darryl Roberts not good picks?

Valentine was the only pick there that you could take issue with, though he was a Compensatory 3rd round pick. Stork was a 4th rounder and gave the Pats a solid rookie season, including starting a game at RT for the Pats against the Giants.

Crossen saw limited snaps as a rookie then netted the Pats a 6th rounder (1 round ahead of where he was drafted). He was traded because the Pats would have lost him on waivers otherwise due to the depth of their secondary at the time.

Fleming was an excellent pick for the Pats. He saw snaps in every season with the Pats. He backed up at both the guard and tackle spots and saw 20 starts as an injury replacement during his 4 years with the Patriots. He's since gone on Dallas, NYG, and Denver.

Grugier-Hill and Roberts were players the Pats tried to sneak onto the PS. Grugier-Hill was grabbed by the Eagles and Roberts by the Jets. Grugier-Hill is regarded as a top 10 special teams player in the league and has seen spot starting with the Eagles, Phins and Texans.

D. Roberts spent 4 years with the Jets, slowly climging to be a starter.. He's spent a year in Detroit and then time with the WFT.

Elandon Roberts showed himself to be a true professional when he stepped up for the Pats to learn the FB position when they lost both Develin and Johnson to injury. Roberts was a JAG LB for the Pats, but he did whatever was asked of him despite his limitations.

Your attempt to besmirch @RobertWeathers is extremely laughable.

I will say I appreciate the time you took to write this. Strongly disagree that these examples are of good NFL players, or that the Pats drafted well in this time period.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
PatsFans.com Supporter
How was Fleming NOT a good pick?
How was Elandon Roberts NOT a good pick?
How was Stork NOT a good pick?

How ere Grugier-Hill and Darryl Roberts not good picks?

Valentine was the only pick there that you could take issue with, though he was a Compensatory 3rd round pick. Stork was a 4th rounder and gave the Pats a solid rookie season, including starting a game at RT for the Pats against the Giants.

Crossen saw limited snaps as a rookie then netted the Pats a 6th rounder (1 round ahead of where he was drafted). He was traded because the Pats would have lost him on waivers otherwise due to the depth of their secondary at the time.

Fleming was an excellent pick for the Pats. He saw snaps in every season with the Pats. He backed up at both the guard and tackle spots and saw 20 starts as an injury replacement during his 4 years with the Patriots. He's since gone on Dallas, NYG, and Denver.

Grugier-Hill and Roberts were players the Pats tried to sneak onto the PS. Grugier-Hill was grabbed by the Eagles and Roberts by the Jets. Grugier-Hill is regarded as a top 10 special teams player in the league and has seen spot starting with the Eagles, Phins and Texans.

D. Roberts spent 4 years with the Jets, slowly climging to be a starter.. He's spent a year in Detroit and then time with the WFT.

Elandon Roberts showed himself to be a true professional when he stepped up for the Pats to learn the FB position when they lost both Develin and Johnson to injury. Roberts was a JAG LB for the Pats, but he did whatever was asked of him despite his limitations.
Yea the Valentine and Stork ones can be debated.

Valentine played 30% of the snaps as a rookie and a degenerative knee condition did him in. When he played he did a nice job vs the run. Paired well with Uncle Phil and Brown.

Should spending the #93 pick (Valentine) which has a 27% success rate be considered a bust if he played regularly, provided value, helped the team win a Super Bowl? Very debatable I guess.

We all know about Stork. 4th rd pick. Started and helped solidify the o-line on a Super Bowl champion. Multiple concussions. Damn shame.

You can the same thing about Malcom Mitchell. He was one and done but was huge vs ATL. 4th rounder.

Plus draft status/capital used is a factor. If Elandon Roberts was a 1st rounder, he was a bust. But he was a 6th rounder. They picked up a solid reserve LB/STer (despite what @ashley1992 thinks ;) )who has gone on to have a pretty decent career. Same goes for Crossen, Hill, Roberts and Fleming.

Your attempt to besmirch @RobertWeathers is extremely laughable.

Some posters have no concept of how challenging hitting on draft picks is and navigating that pick-to-player talent decision. Additionally they have no concept of ROI. All they do is stare at PFF or their fantasy league platform and make uninformed assessments.

Thanks for the call-out @DaBruinz. I think the board is plenty aware which posters know football and how this team operates and who doesn't.
 
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RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
PatsFans.com Supporter
Has anyone thought of how much better this board would be if everyone simply stopped replying to DKF? Just let his inanities sit there by themselves. As it is, it's east to just skip past his statements, but it would be better if no one said anything in response.
We've seen his kind before. His "contribution" to the board is unsustainable. Someday he'll reach a point where he's pissed off everyone (gotta be in the high teens by now) and he'll be banned.
 
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50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Barmore's snaps increased dramatically and the runD getting better over time is related to Barmore playing the most snaps now of any DLineman, over the last month.

Real glad we have Barmore.
Yes, he is getting more snaps - last week particularly (76%). He's the guy I had the Pats taking at 15 (never thought a QB would fall).

Watching people here claiming he was "lazy" and "unintelligent" (nothing racist there, by the way, even from certain writers who should know better), or that he wouldn't pass the physical...lol.

He was a first round talent who dropped because of a minor infraction early in his college career, and I'm glad he did. Glad BB's friends with Saban. He knew. The only problem with getting him in round 2 is that they won't be able to exercise that 5th year option, and Barmore is going to get paid, big time.
 

Toofy

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I think if we look at it holistically our draft has not been that bad. I will admit I have also been guilty of spewing venom at our drafting, but every team has misses and some teams really have stinkers for consecutive years with their first 2 rounders . At least we try to get something out of our draft picks.

Yes, this year so far looks like a home run but law of averages state that we are bound to get some miserable flops now and then. If we can rectify from failed trends that would be a good start and it started from this year. First round WR and second round DB are our Achilles heel . Our UDFA DB drafting is other worldly - butler, JC, Myles Bryant and Jon Jones.

I think the key to success is to have a balanced team and the sum of parts being greater than individual parts. I think a big part of that is to not have monster contracts and have a pretty decent middle class.

We should be thankful we have BB and Josh . Situation in other franchises are alarming and even everyone there has issues with their teams drafting.

If we are competitive, it means we are drafting and coaching well..
 

n6249c

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yes, he is getting more snaps - last week particularly (76%). He's the guy I had the Pats taking at 15 (never thought a QB would fall).

Watching people here claiming he was "lazy" and "unintelligent" (nothing racist there, by the way, even from certain writers who should know better), or that he wouldn't pass the physical...lol.

He was a first round talent who dropped because of a minor infraction early in his college career, and I'm glad he did. Glad BB's friends with Saban. He knew. The only problem with getting him in round 2 is that they won't be able to exercise that 5th year option, and Barmore is going to get paid, big time.
rework his contract during year three to give him a raise in year four and extend him. Signing bonus in year three plus a raise in year four are incentive for him to extend early.
 

NormZauchin

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yes, he is getting more snaps - last week particularly (76%). He's the guy I had the Pats taking at 15 (never thought a QB would fall).

Watching people here claiming he was "lazy" and "unintelligent" (nothing racist there, by the way, even from certain writers who should know better), or that he wouldn't pass the physical...lol.

He was a first round talent who dropped because of a minor infraction early in his college career, and I'm glad he did. Glad BB's friends with Saban. He knew. The only problem with getting him in round 2 is that they won't be able to exercise that 5th year option, and Barmore is going to get paid, big time.
If Barmore continues to improve to the point where he is considered Pro Bowl material, it would be extremely unlikely that the Pats would try to squeeze a fourth year cheap rookie salary from him. They would tear up his rookie deal and try to sign him long term with big money. Same with Mac. I very much doubt he will be playing his fifth year here, or even his fourth year, under his rookie salary.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
PatsFans.com Supporter
If Barmore continues to improve to the point where he is considered Pro Bowl material, it would be extremely unlikely that the Pats would try to squeeze a fourth year cheap rookie salary from him. They would tear up his rookie deal and try to sign him long term with big money. Same with Mac. I very much doubt he will be playing his fifth year here, or even his fourth year, under his rookie salary.
Yep. Roll out the Brink's truck for him. DTs who can pressure the QB and stop the run are a premium....and we know BB pays them as such (Sey, VW and Ty Warren)
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Has anyone thought of how much better this board would be if everyone simply stopped replying to DKF? Just let his inanities sit there by themselves. As it is, it's east to just skip past his statements, but it would be better if no one said anything in response.
This is the way to go. Let him lie, make a fool of himself and just let it sit there to lol at. It's clear who knows their stuff and who hasn't a clue. Who's trolling for attention by making new threads everyday repeating the same things.

Just glad we didn't listen to him and started Mac over Cam and drafted Barmore.
Screenshot_2021-05-16-03-09-03~3.png
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
PatsFans.com Supporter
You're the doofus who highlighted them as good picks. Because you're a geezer homer.

And stop pretending you aren't obsessed with me. I get that you are dealing with gender/sexual identity issues but I am simply not interested. Sorry.

.
I don't know what you are talking about?

You are doing a great job of expressing your opinion and thoughts.

Please continue.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I don't know what you are talking about?

You are doing a great job of expressing your opinion and thoughts.

Please continue.

It's ok man. Let it out. You reference me every other post. And I get that you have been ranting about gender/identity issues (not that there's anything wrong that that). Let me know if you need a hug.
 
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