Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[Ian]

I have 20 years of evidence that lead to my thinking. I have seen worse teams that Brady was on, that were contenders. Where is the fingers pointed to right now? Coaching. All of the sudden bill lost it, all of the sudden players bIll brings in suck, all of the sudden Mcdaniels cannot call an offense. Sorry does not work that way. There is evidence that says with Brady this team is winning, 20 years of it. There however is no evidence that everything is just like it is now if Brady is here. There is no example.

But he's not. So...we've got to let it go.

 

[Pats1971]

I've mentioned this to him and as I've said, I get there's disappointment in Brady being gone, I'm among that crowd. But what's done is done. I'm on the Mac Jones train and I'm at least glad we have that to look forward to. It's a little odd when you're 2-4 yet the QB position is currently the least of their problems. Definitely a strange year so far.

Its the least of their problems, because there are no expectations of the QB at this point. He is not going to get heavy critique. He is expectated to be new to the NFL and all that kind of things. So everything else gets the finger pointing. The notion that we always had this super team when were winning is not correct, but winning means nobody questions the coaching, or a player that drops too many passes or a linebacker that is not getting tackles. When you are losing, you do.

 

[Pats1971]

But he's not. So...we've got to let it go.

Enought said. Its not a discussion that has not been done a million times. Other things to talk about.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who said that "the train keeps going" when Brady left? Nobody.

Continue on with the rest of your diatribe.

Vegas had the team at 8.5-9.5. But....


There were those, whether here, on radio, or elsewhere, who were telling the rest of us that Brady was done/in significant decline, and that the Patriots wouldn't take much of a hit when he was gone. They made their arguments by doing things like pointing to the team's record in the latter part of 2019, Brady's numbers drop, etc...

And there were people, including members of the media, who were on board with the notion, to one degree or another.


How NFL experts predict the Patriots will do this season



Note: The following take, from the above article, is the kind of take that should make a person re-think his profession:

Del Don: Will make the playoffs.

“They are a big wild card with Tom Brady gone, but the system, strong defense, and benefit of playing in this division results in yet another AFC East title … Jarrett Stidham replaces Cam Newton at some point during the season, as the Pats make the playoffs while the Bucs don’t in 2020.”

 

[Tony2046]

I've mentioned this to him and as I've said, I get there's disappointment in Brady being gone, I'm among that crowd. But what's done is done. I'm on the Mac Jones train and I'm at least glad we have that to look forward to. It's a little odd when you're 2-4 yet the QB position is currently the least of their problems. Definitely a strange year so far.

The hardest position to fill or fix is the QB. I think they've done that. I have a lot of confidence in BB to fix the defense side of things.

Anyway, from a "rebuild" perspective, I like what they're doing.

 

[Pats1971]

The hardest position to fill or fix is the QB. I think they've done that. I have a lot of confidence in BB to fix the defense side of things.

Anyway, from a "rebuild" perspective, I like what they're doing.

Well I dont feel at this point that the QB position has been fixed. It has been started over with an unkinown future. Fixed means the position is operating like it was before. It has a possibility of being fixed some day. The defense is actually less to be fixed. They are top 10 in points given up this year, that has won superbowls before. I have sat watching games for years screaming that the D cannot get off the field on 3rd down or some iffy Qb lighting us up, and then we won the superbowl that year. From a rebuild standpoint, they have just started.

 

[Ian]

The hardest position to fill or fix is the QB. I think they've done that. I have a lot of confidence in BB to fix the defense side of things.

Anyway, from a "rebuild" perspective, I like what they're doing.

And given how many more times they could have gotten it wrong and lost a few more years, I still can't believe what I've seen so far. It really is pretty crazy. I know I've said it a bunch, but my mind truly is blown that they found someone so soon who seems competent enough to really have a bright future. It really could have been a revolving door, especially when you think back to the days of Rohan Davey, Kliff Kingsbury, etc. After all, it's not like they've had a strong track record there.

 

[Ian]

Well I dont feel at this point that the QB position has been fixed. It has been started over with an unkinown future. Fixed means the position is operating like it was before.

Never going to happen. Brady's a once in a generation player. All you can hope for is that Mac becomes better than the guys he's competing against in the league. That'll be enough.

Look around, guys like Brady don't exist. Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, etc. Even those guys weren't and aren't even close to that level. You're already seeing a changing of the guard, and it won't be complete until #12 hangs it up. What we had was special and it stinks that it's over, but we'll never see it again. However, then again, it's also pretty likely neither will another team.

 

[Pats1971]

Never going to happen. Brady's a once in a generation player. All you can hope for is that Mac becomes better than the guys he's competing against in the league. That'll be enough.

That not really what I mean. I am not saying it has to be the same as before, but I think right now the things that have to improve still exist. There is no way that the QB position could be fixed in 6 games with a rookie QB, thats what I mean, I dont think that part is "fixed" yet, Its in process. Fixed to me means he is at his apex of where he needs to be. It would be hard to be there at this point. I call that position incomplete right now, because its way to early in the process.

 

[mikey m]

I actually believe both Bill and Tom are declining at similar, slow rates. TB's is masked by going to a talented roster with an all-world receiving corps. BB's is exacerbated by losing the Goat, Gronk, and Edelman on O and the core of the D (HT, DMac, maybe Chung to a lesser extent) reaching the end of their careers all at about the same time. BB's shortcomings are seen in being light on talent to fill these holes. But, this large roster turnover was coming one way or another with the need to establish new stalwarts on both sides of the ball. I'm still optimistic about this team gelling and developing going into next season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

News flash: Kraft did exactly that. He brought in new guys that helped out during the draft. He also b!tched about poor drafts. So you're wrong. Again.

Nope, he didn’t, Belichick brought in Wolf and talked Zeigler into staying when Denver wanted him. Belichick makes all football hires, not the Kraft’s.

 

[Pats1971]

And given how many more times they could have gotten it wrong and lost a few more years, I still can't believe what I've seen so far. It really is pretty crazy. I know I've said it a bunch, but my mind truly is blown that they found someone so soon who seems competent enough to really have a bright future. It really could have been a revolving door, especially when you think back to the days of Rohan Davey, Kliff Kingsbury, etc. After all, it's not like they've had a strong track record there.

Well its kind of the first time we took a QB that high. QB's in the past that were taken were more projects than solutions. This is the first time that I can recall Bill drafted a QB to truely take over.

 

[Ian]

That not really what I mean. I am not saying it has to be the same as before, but I think right now the things that have to improve still exist. There is no way that the QB position could be fixed in 6 games with a rookie QB, thats what I mean, I dont think that part is "fixed" yet, Its in process. Fixed to me means he is at his apex of where he needs to be. It would be hard to be there at this point. I call that position incomplete right now, because its way to early in the process.

Yes, but you're pushing for something without allowing it to happen first. That won't work, either.

 

[Ian]

Well its kind of the first time we took a QB that high. QB's in the past that were taken were more projects than solutions. This is the first time that I can recall Bill drafted a QB to truely take over.

They didn't draft the other guys for no reason. Bill, I'm sure, wouldn't waste a pick on a guy he didn't believe could get the job done. Although, to your point, he had a safety net and sort of didn't have to.

Also, I haven't met too many people who can type as fast as I can, so well done in that regard.

 

[Deus Irae]

I actually believe both Bill and Tom are declining at similar, slow rates. TB's is masked by going to a talented roster with an all-world receiving corps. BB's is exacerbated by losing the Goat, Gronk, and Edelman on O and the core of the D (HT, DMac, maybe Chung to a lesser extent) reaching the end of their careers all at about the same time. BB's shortcomings are seen in being light on talent to fill these holes. But, this large roster turnover was coming one way or another with the need to establish new stalwarts on both sides of the ball. I'm still optimistic about this team gelling and developing going into next season.

 

[Pats1971]

I actually believe both Bill and Tom are declining at similar, slow rates. TB's is masked by going to a talented roster with an all-world receiving corps. BB's is exacerbated by losing the Goat, Gronk, and Edelman on O and the core of the D (HT, DMac, maybe Chung to a lesser extent) reaching the end of their careers all at about the same time. BB's shortcomings are seen in being light on talent to fill these holes. But, this large roster turnover was coming one way or another with the need to establish new stalwarts on both sides of the ball. I'm still optimistic about this team gelling and developing going into next season.

Lots of teams have talent around them and do not do what Brady is doing. Watching his throws, I actually see it being a bit better now than it was 3 or 4 years ago. Its not like he is throwing a 2 yard pass and a guy is running through tackles for 90 yards. He is throwing dimes. I cannot see where the regress is. Bill is kinda the same way. He is coaching a competitive team that should not really be competitive, that is what he does. Rook QB, complete change over of a roster. I do not see the drop of either.

 

[venecol]

I don't see it as sad in the least. The only thing I am sad about is the Patriots losing the last 1.5 seasons. It was fun at times to talk about BB's legacy. And I liked the idea of our team having the GOAT coach, but only if he truly deserves it. I'm never sad to see someone get the recognition they deserve, positive or negative.

If BB isn't the best coach of all time then I'm not sad about him being 'exposed' when his record, accomplishments and legacy were built upon by things he had little to nothing to do with. I'm only sad that it has to happen at our expense. If Bill really can't build a consistent winner without Brady, then he doesn't deserve to coach a consistent winner. And he doesn't deserve to have the reputation he does. That being said, it's too early to say that as of yet. His legacy has taken a hit, but it is still recoverable.

Wuh, for a second I thought you were suggesting it's time for Bill to go work at Popeyes. Then this image of Butler rolling up in his SB pick-up truck to the Popeyes pick up window and seeing Bill waiting there came to mind. Someone needs to do a skit about this.

Note: I may have smoked too much.

 

[Pats1971]

They didn't draft the other guys for no reason. Bill, I'm sure, wouldn't waste a pick on a guy he didn't believe could get the job done. Although, to your point, he had a safety net and sort of didn't have to.

Also, I haven't met too many people who can type as fast as I can, so well done in that regard.

I'm a systems admin. I apologize Ian, had too much coffee. I will head off and do something else for now. See you guys in awhile.

 

[Pats1971]

However,

Yes, but you're pushing for something without allowing it to happen first. That won't work, either.

Not at all. I basically just said I didnt think it was "fixed" at this point, nor should it be. You are not replacing a tile in the floor, you are replacing the whole floor. lol. Talk to you guys later.

 

[Ian]

Not at all. I basically just said I didnt think it was "fixed" at this point, nor should it be. You are not replacing a tile in the floor, you are replacing the whole floor. lol. Talk to you guys later.

Yes, but you just said, "There is no way that the QB position could be fixed in 6 games with a rookie QB, thats what I mean, I dont think that part is "fixed" yet, Its in process. Fixed to me means he is at his apex of where he needs to be."

You're right - it's not fixed, but getting the right guy is 90% in terms of the difficulty. You're essentially sitting at the dinner table complaining about the food not being done when it's impossible for it to be cooked any faster