Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Lets say the gave Brady two years at 50 million, where do the cuts come from the rest of the roster? So we could have had Tom but the team would have been thin. BB thought he could squeeze another year or two out of TB and went all in and it worked, He couldnt keep it going much longer.

Then why sign aging McCourty to two years at the one of the highest contracts for a safety (approximately $12M)? Why bring back Slater? Why franchise Thuney (approximately $14M)? Why decline to trade Gilmore and then increase his salary (approximately $17M) in 2020? Why keep Hightower in early 2020 before Covid (approximately $10M)? Why keep Edelman (approximately $5M)?

Why not trade any of these players since he couldn’t keep it together? And certainly why no trades at the trade deadline?

See, you can’t have it both ways. If he couldn’t keep it together, then so be it. But that’s not what happened. He thought he could win without Brady and went all in with what he had. The team was already suffering from years of terrible drafting and got new additional draft capital, despite having a handful of attractive players in a year that everyone now retroactively refers to as “a throwaway year.” Let’s just acknowledge he badly underestimated what he was capable of doing as a coach without the most valuable player on the planet. Every week that becomes more and more apparent.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

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I'm really sorry Ian, I hope you see I've really been trying and laying off the last couple weeks. But reading about posts of BB leaving and mcD replacing him, just brought back a very visceral reaction....

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[mikey m]

Sometimes the truth is fairly simple. This is much closer to being what happened than a lot of these revisionist explanations. The justification was to get rid of him to avoid a multi-year rebuild. That was back two years ago when it was believed the offensive system was a cheat code.

Brady was not going to make a super bowl run with this team. It is too flawed for which the gm deserves criticism. If Brady were here, we'd be competing to squeeze into the playoffs at best and would have gotten nowhere with developing a promising rookie qb. It absolutely would have pushed the future of this franchise back several years. Now, some may have considered it worth to spend a few more years of watching Brady in a Pats uniform and ideally retire in it. I'd prefer to have Jones.

 

[Tottie]

Brady was not going to make a super bowl run with this team. It is too flawed for which the gm deserves criticism. If Brady were here, we'd be competing to squeeze into the playoffs at best and would have gotten nowhere with developing a promising rookie qb. It absolutely would have pushed the future of this franchise back several years. Now, some may have considered it worth to spend a few more years of watching Brady in a Pats uniform and ideally retire in it. I'd prefer to have Jones.

If Brady is here and happy we are winning the division.

 

[amfootball]

Brady was not going to make a super bowl run with this team. It is too flawed for which the gm deserves criticism. If Brady were here, we'd be competing to squeeze into the playoffs at best and would have gotten nowhere with developing a promising rookie qb. It absolutely would have pushed the future of this franchise back several years. Now, some may have considered it worth to spend a few more years of watching Brady in a Pats uniform and ideally retire in it. I'd prefer to have Jones.

Pushed them back several years from what exactly? A 7-9 and 2-4 seasons? I don't get this at all. Brady wins 12 games a year. He did it in 2019 with a decrepit roster. Won a SB in 2018 with a severely handicapped roster outdueling Mahomes in KC. This notion that we would squeak into the playoffs with the GOAT goes against 20 years of history.

 

[mikey m]

If Brady is here and happy we are winning the division.

Would put all my money on Buffalo.

 

[Tottie]

Would put all my money on Buffalo.

Because you are thinking of the team you see today and simply switching QBs but as they have shown multiple times throughout the 20+ years, they can retool quickly when they have Brady. It's amazing to me that people, especially NE fans, don't get that yet. Buffalo wouldn't be a bad bet but we would definitely be in it if he were still here and happy and BB was trying to win with him.

 

[Pats1971]

Brady was not going to make a super bowl run with this team. It is too flawed for which the gm deserves criticism. If Brady were here, we'd be competing to squeeze into the playoffs at best and would have gotten nowhere with developing a promising rookie qb. It absolutely would have pushed the future of this franchise back several years. Now, some may have considered it worth to spend a few more years of watching Brady in a Pats uniform and ideally retire in it. I'd prefer to have Jones.

We would be a superbowl contender if Brady was here now. Nobody knows what Jones is or will be, you win when you can. Wanting to go into a rebuild with no real guarantee of ever winning again, is not better than winning superbowls. You win while you can, becuase you might not ever see it again.

This current team is a top 10 defense, weapons on offense, two good TE's. I have seen Brady win with less. The oline gets better by proxy because Brady can read pre snap pressure, the defense gets better because we score more and have longer drives, this opens up the run game because teams have to play the offense different. You get a world of expierience and leadership that has been proven to turn players into better players.

 

[amfootball]

We would be a superbowl contender if Brady was here now. Nobody knows what Jones is or will be, you win when you can. Wanting to go into a rebuild with no real guarantee of ever winning again, is not better than winning superbowls. You win while you can, becuase you might not ever see it again.

And what's worse is Brady has been showing he had multiple years of championship football still left.

 

[Ian]

That being said, it's too early to say that as of yet. His legacy has taken a hit, but it is still recoverable.

Exactly. The 2018 season was only 3 years ago, and 2016 was only a couple of years before that. I would give him a pass if it means a couple of not-so-great seasons before gearing up for another run with what already appears to be a terrific young franchise quarterback. I feel like they're on to something and it definitely sounds like, at least from what we've heard in the locker room, that the players know it as well.

 

[mikey m]

Pushed them back several years from what exactly? A 7-9 and 2-4 seasons? I don't get this at all. Brady wins 12 games a year. He did it in 2019 with a decrepit roster. Won a SB in 2018 with a severely handicapped roster outdueling Mahomes in KC. This notion that we would squeak into the playoffs with the GOAT goes against 20 years of history.

C'mon, you know fully well It's not about the record. It's about Jones and his development. If Brady is here he pushes that back. 20 years of history doesn't mean anything when our team is on a huge downslope and Bills are a superior team, with or without Brady who struggled to move this offense for significant stretches in his final season here.

 

[Pats1971]

And what's worse is Brady has been showing he had multiple years of championship football still left.

What ice said is correct. Bill thought he could win right away without Brady, that is why he went and blew all that money in the offseason. It is not working because what left was not just a better QB, it was the heart and soul and core of the team.

 

[mikey m]

And what's worse is Brady has been showing he had multiple years of championship football still left.

Yes, with the best receiving corps in the league. With ours? The offense would be better, but still struggling.

 

[Pats1971]

C'mon, you know fully well It's not about the record. It's about Jones and his development. If Brady is here he pushes that back. 20 years of history doesn't mean anything when our team is on a huge downslope and Bills are a superior team, with or without Brady who struggled to move this offense for significant stretches in his final season here.

No its about the record and winning and winning superbowls. You do that while you can and only start over when you have to. Jones and his developement is here because they had no choice. Jones might not work out. You went from known to unknown. You rebuild when you have to. Obviously Brady is playing at a top level even 2 years later. The experience, leadership, knowledge of everything this team does and what other teams do, the ability to make players better, all that left and this is whats left.

 

[Ian]

We would be a superbowl contender if Brady was here now. Nobody knows what Jones is or will be, you win when you can. Wanting to go into a rebuild with no real guarantee of ever winning again, is not better than winning superbowls. You win while you can, becuase you might not ever see it again.

I agree, but what's done is done. As I've said, they gave up on him too early, but it is what it is. He's gone, and he's not coming back. And yes, he may win one more before it's over and if the Patriots aren't in it, I'll be rooting for him just like I did in February.

That being said, I also look at it this way. Even if you grab the best QB in the draft on any given year, there's nothing to say that guy will be great in the NFL. Plenty of top QBs get taken every year, and almost none become Brady, Mahomes, etc.

I really feel that him leaving at the time he did really worked out in our favor because they got lucky with the timing on Mac. So that's the one thing I'm starting to take away that makes dealing with this transition a little less painful. If he continues the upward trajectory, I'm pretty sure the conversations three years from now will be different.

 

[Pats1971]

Yes, with the best receiving corps in the league. With ours? The offense would be better, but still struggling.

This receiving core is better than ones that Brady has won superbowls with. Two Top TE's, Bourne, Myers, a very good run game.

 

[mikey m]

What ice said is correct. Bill thought he could win right away without Brady, that is why he went and blew all that money in the offseason. It is not working because what left was not just a better QB, it was the heart and soul and core of the team.

Money HAS to be spent somewhere. Trying to acquire talent doesn't mean you think you're ready to win a SB. It can easily mean that you want your rookie QB to have some support and talent around him to aid his development.

 

[mikey m]

This receiving core is better than ones that Brady has won superbowls with. Two Top TE's, Bourne, Myers, a very good run game.

1 good TE, 2 good #3 WRs, and am inconsistent run game that seems fond of handing the ball to the other team.

 

[Pats1971]

I agree, but what's done is done. As I've said, they gave up on him too early, but it is what it is. He's gone, and he's not coming back. And yes, he may win one more before it's over and if the Patriots aren't in it, I'll be rooting for him just like I did in February.

That being said, I also look at it this way. Even if you grab the best QB in the draft on any given year, there's nothing to say that guy will be great in the NFL. Plenty of top QBs get taken every year, and almost none become Brady, Mahomes, etc.

I really feel that him leaving at the time he did really worked out in our favor because they got lucky with the timing on Mac. So that's the one thing I'm starting to take away that makes dealing with this transition a little less painful. If he continues the upward trajectory, I'm pretty sure the conversations three years from now will be different.

Oh I agree Ian, it is what it is and I know there is nothing that can be done now. This is not abnormal, it has happened for years and years to all teams. We are in a position where most things are unknown, and that is fine, but they are unknown. A lot of people think and thought that if Brady left, the train just keeps going. I heard this over and over. It was more than losing a good QB, you lost everything else he brought as well. I said a long time ago when he left there is going to be a lot more than just losing a good QB, you are losing everything that goes along with what he brought. I mean he went to tampa who had not won a playoff game in 18 years and all of the suddent they are a superbowl contender. That goes beyond just being a good QB, all the players gravitated to him. He brings a presensce that you cannot just replace with a body. The entire team looks different regardless of talent on bucs or pats.

Yeah 3 years from now could be different, but its hard to predict anything that you do not have evidence of. Thats the issue. We knew every year that with Brady, we would at least get into the 10 or 11 win range and make a run, no matter who left, no matter what this and that was. Thats not a theory, it happened. Bill didnt suddenly forget how to build a team, Bill didnt suddenly become cautious with play calls. Bill didnt suddenly go crazy spending in the offseason. Brady leaving lead to this.

 

[Tottie]

1 good TE, 2 good #3 WRs, and am inconsistent run game that seems fond of handing the ball to the other team.

They win the division if he and Bill are on board and on the same page with the current skill players. They would be the favorites. They would have a top 5 offense like they've basically always had.