Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[Pats1971]

No matter whether you love Bill or hate him, its hard and sad to see his legacy get ripped to shreds like this. As the mediocrity continues it will only get worse.

Much like Tom Landry decades ago, Bill Belichick mystique is falling apart | Opinion

No coach in the modern era of pro sports was built by one person more than New England’s Bill Belichick.

www.yahoo.com

Media. You are a hero one day and killed the next. I have seen it with players and coaches. If Brady left the patriots and did not do well, this story would be about him. Its what they do. Hell at this point they do not even need to tell the truth, just say you have a source.

With that said....many media stories have been written that Brady is nothing without Bill. Brady the system guy, Bill made him, etc etc, so the fact that when that is proven wrong, the story is going to be written that it was wrong. Bill is a great coach. Bill is not a messiah, he cannot make players into goats, he does not have a magic wand. If players do not play well he will not win. He does not play so he has no physical impact on the game. A coach is a coach. If you do not have the right players you lose.

 

[amfootball]

There isn’t a single coach in the league today that I would replace him with.

Really? I would take McVay over him in a heartbeat.

 

[sb1]

BB built AND coached the team.

So did Brown, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh and Lombardi.

I'm satisfied with BB being in that company.

If we want to quantify it and use SB or NFL championships as another qualifier then BB is GOAT.

If we want to use playoff wins, BB is GOAT

If we want to use regular season wins then it's Shula

Beauty is in the eye of he beholder.

Right.

If you want to use win % in the playoffs then it's Lombardi.

If you want to use success of your coaching tree then it's Shula or Brown. Or Reid but he's not in the GOAT conversation yet.

If you want to use elevating your players to greatness then it could be Shula. Or BB. Or Lombardi.

If you want to use most influential coach to the sport as we know it today then it's Brown

If you want to use how your coaching innovated the game then it could be BB. Or Walsh. Or Brown. Landry is up there too.

If you want to use success with multiple QBs then it's Gibbs. To go further if you want to use success with QBs who are not marquee then it's definitely Gibbs.

If you want to use success with multiple cores then it could also be Gibbs. Or maybe BB.

If you want to use dominance relative to the league then it's Lombardi.

If you want to use regular season success over a long period of time then it's Landry with 20 straight winning seasons. BB was one short of that. Or Lombardi who also never had a losing record. BB has had 5 losing seasons possibly 6 after this season.

Is BB really GOAT coach? That's a tough argument to make one way or the other.

 

[oldrover]

EDIT: My "point" was made moot by the above, so I'll say this...

"...legacy ripped apart..."

 

[RobertWeathers]

Right.

If you want to use win % in the playoffs then it's Lombardi.

If you want to use success of your coaching tree then it's Shula or Brown

If you want to use elevating your players to greatness then it could be Shula. Or BB. Or Lombardi.

If you want to use most influential coach to the sport as we know it today then it's Brown

If you want to use how your coaching innovated the game then it could be BB. Or Walsh. Or Brown.

If you want to use success with multiple QBs then it's Gibbs. To go further if you want to use success with QBs who are not marquee then it's definitely Gibbs.

If you want to use success with multiple cores then it could also be Gibbs. Or maybe BB.

If you want to use dominance relative to the league then it's Lombardi.

If you want to use regular season success over a long period of time then it's Landry with 20 straight winning seasons. BB was one short of that. Or Lombardi who also never had a losing record. BB has had 5 losing seasons possibly 6 after this season.

Is BB really GOAT coach? That's a tough argument to make one way or the other.

There ya go.

Now go do a Ice Ice Brady matrix and see who has the most points based on your criteria.

Need to split out cap era vs non cap era.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Ouch, that's gotta sting. The only way for BB to overturn the criticisms and doubt is to 'Do His Job' which is win football games. He hasn't been able to do that so far without Tom Brady. And back to back questionable losses where cowardly coaching calls helped bring those L's is only going to give fuel to the critics.

In other words, the media is now putting BB's feet to the fire. His only good response is to win. Let's see how he responds. I don't enjoy watching this team lose, but I also can see that the criticisms have some merit, as hard as it may be to swallow for the "Belichick Backers". In the end football is a game of wins and losses. Turn the season around Bill and the story changes. Fail to improve and that 'hot seat' is going to get ever hotter to the point where Kraft might have to make a tough call.

The silver lining - the heir to Brady looks like he has serious potential. The cloud hanging over this - this team still hasn't figured out how to win, the talent difference between this squad and the 2010s Patriots is obvious, the OL play could get the young promising rookie QB killed before a turnaround can happen, and the coaching and playcalling has looked Dubious at best. Ball is in your court now BB, what's your move?

 

[slash83]

Really? I would take McVay over him in a heartbeat.

Hell no

 

[mikey m]

Is he really though? He is an all time great for sure but GOAT? What exactly makes Bill stand out from guys like Landry, Lombardi, Brown, Shula and the rest of them? I've asked this before and it's still not clear to me.

Sure he has the most rings but that is a team accomplishment not an individual accomplishment.

For me a large part of it is managing this dynasty through the salary cap era. I'm not old enough nor am I the Mona Lisa Vito of NFL history to say that BB is definitively better than those other legends, but if one thing were to separate him, I would think it would be the salary cap.

 

[aluminum seats]

Well now that Belichick has retired, we can expect these kind of legacy reviews.

Wait, he didn't retire? You say his story is still being written? Nevermind then.

 

[sb1]

There ya go.

Yeah I'm saying it's a tough objective argument to make that BB is the clear cut GOAT coach right now. Equally as tough that he is definitely not.

One advantage BB has over those other guys is he is not done yet and things can change.

In the meantime it's clear he is one of the all time greats and as a Pats fan and being biased I'll call him GOAT anyway just because.

 

[amfootball]

For me a large part of it is managing this dynasty through the salary cap era. I'm not old enough nor am I the Mona Lisa Vito of NFL history to say that BB is definitively better than those other legends, but if one thing were to separate him, I would think it would be the salary cap.

And he did it with a QB picked in the 6th round. I mean it is other worldly if you really think about it.

 

[everlong]

This guy




Hates this guy




But who really makes the decisions?

 

[sb1]

The silver lining - the heir to Brady looks like he has serious potential. The cloud hanging over this - this team still hasn't figured out how to win, the talent difference between this squad and the 2010s Patriots is obvious, and the OL play could get the young promising rookie QB killed before a turnaround can happen,

The OL worries me. It's fair to say that Mac will not have a great offensive line in the NFL every year but I hope he's not programming bad habits into his technique right now as a rookie to protect himself.

 

[VJCPatriot]

And he did it with a QB picked in the 6th round. I mean it is other worldly if you really think about it.

Or did he do it BECAUSE of a QB picked in the 6th round?

 

[sb1]

There ya go.

Now go do a Ice Ice Brady matrix and see who has the most points based on your criteria.

Need to split out cap era vs non cap era.

Yeah that kind of in depth analysis would be fun. If I have time I'll take a look at it.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Rings are a team accomplishment, not an individual accomplishment. QB and coach are part of the team. Belichick as HC has 6 rings, Brady has 7.

Rings on its own can't make a player or coach the greatest of all time.

oh i agree......i give credit for championships MORE to coaches as the architect of the team more so than individual players......it just always irks me when we give QBs credit for wins; wins are a team stat, not an individual stat

and while i would argue that marino was a highly, highly skilled QB, he was also a tad overrated in terms of all time greats......but the lack of a ring doesn't contribute to that in my eyes

BB's legacy isn't necessarily, it is the 20 years of sustained success in a salary cap era that is his greatest accomplishment IMHO

 

[yukon cornelius]

Brady just won with another team and a coach who everyone considers to be a boob so try again.

wins are a team stat.......that superbowl win by Tampa was won by a team with the best roster in the game last year; they played the best as a team in the playoffs......team win, not individual

 

[Pats1971]

We're not even a full year removed from Belichick getting 7 wins - going 7-8 with a qb who four times failed to muster even a hundred yards passing - with one of the most talent-deficient rosters I can remember. Forget the HOF, I would give him a Nobel Prize or something.

Yeah but here is the issue, that player was brought here....by bill. You cannot let the coach off the hook if the coach is the one that is bringing in those players that you say are bringing him down.

 

[amfootball]

They were saying on the radio today that what separates Cora right now from Bill is his ability to connect with gen Z.

 

[Pats1971]

oh i agree......i give credit for championships MORE to coaches as the architect of the team more so than individual players......it just always irks me when we give QBs credit for wins; wins are a team stat, not an individual stat

and while i would argue that marino was a highly, highly skilled QB, he was also a tad overrated in terms of all time greats......but the lack of a ring doesn't contribute to that in my eyes

BB's legacy isn't necessarily, it is the 20 years of sustained success in a salary cap era that is his greatest accomplishment IMHO

Well 20 years the pats won...a player left and they have had two seasons of losing records....I would say the player is pretty important.