Content Post Idle thoughts: The "and this is why you DON'T play not to lose" edition

[sb1]

I'm sure DKF will demand summary executions for the OL coach and several players, but the fact remains for all the noise, Dallas had just 2 sacks and 5 QB hits. It wasn't great, but not the disaster the Game Day board made it seem

"Disaster" or not Randy Gregory wasn't very complimentary of our OL after the game.

Why Cowboys' Randy Gregory Was Not Impressed By Patriots O-Line

Dallas Cowboys defensive end Randy Gregory caused all sorts of havoc for the offensive line of the New England Patriots during a Week 6 win.

nesn.com

 

[everlong]

1. Regarding Jones in the pocket, I disagree that he's a statue in the pocket. When he senses the rush he actually does a great job of moving within the pocket to gain time. The issue is he doesn't always sense the rush. I think we need to be patient and remember even Brady who is elite at this skillset sometimes doesn't feel it coming. But man has he gotten lit up a few times this year and most recently by Gregory yesterday.

2. The OL is still the biggest issue with this team. The Meyers TD gets taken off the board and the next play they whiff and Jones gets burried for a loss and they end up with no points on the drive with the turnover. They could have separated from Dallas on that drive.

3. What a route by Bourne. If that was Davonte Adams or a high profile guy the media would be fawning all over him today.

4. Meyers just continues to improve and catch everything, even when he's getting lit up. That helmet to helmet miss was unforgivable by the zebras.

5. It's too bad Mills gave up the game winning TD and it wasn't even close. He's been an underrated edition overall.

6. I wish players would stop changing numbers. 38 I kept thinking was Bolden and had to remind myself it was Stevenson. Same with 15 and Agholor and Harry. Bentely being 8, etc.

7. Agree with the comments on playing not to lose. 3rd and 25 and you give up 24 playing soft and they kick a FG. 3rd and 20 you give up 18 and then they pick it up on 4th down. 4th and 3 on their side of the 50 and we punt. The play calling on both sides is this way. I know Bill plays to let the other team F it up but that works a lot better when you're the more talented team. They're clearly not this year. So you need to assume more risk. You don't need to play the 46 defense or becoming the greatest show on turf but come on.

8. WTF is up with special teams? Bill spends a ton of money on players who are special teams only so I expect those units to be near perfect. Another blocked kick? Inexcusable. It's not likely any of the units have stood out, flipped the field or made much of a difference.

9. As others have said Hightower is done.

10. Minus the two Bills games I think the Patriots are a coin flip vs everyone else. Sure the Chargers and others have more talent but we saw yesterday with them and the Browns that they're beatable through exposable matchups. This team is 1-3 in single score games. They have to learn how to win these. A fumble, a crossbar and being too timid resulted in 3 losses by an average of 3 points. In the final 11 games I wouldn't doubt that 9+ are single score games. They're going to have to flip the script on how these are finishing to have any shot of being respectable nevermind grabbing a WC spot, and yes I'm not ruling that out in spite of the evidence that I should.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

"Disaster" or not Randy Gregory wasn't very complimentary of our OL after the game.

Why Cowboys' Randy Gregory Was Not Impressed By Patriots O-Line

Dallas Cowboys defensive end Randy Gregory caused all sorts of havoc for the offensive line of the New England Patriots during a Week 6 win.

nesn.com

Well it's a problem with two of your best offensive linemen are out. ONe of them (Brown) has been sitting on his *** all season .

 

[sb1]

10. Minus the two Bills games I think the Patriots are a coin flip vs everyone else.

I see the Pats play the Bills twice in 3 weeks. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing for us.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I wonder if some caution at the end of the half was because they were worried about the after-effects of that massive hit Mac took. Perhaps they thought he wasn't quite all there.

How many plays have we given up this season when the opposing QB bootlegs far to his right and hits a receiver on the sideline downfield? Feels like one of those GIF's on repeat.

The Pats used to be the better team, so it made sense playing conservatively. When you are playing a team that is better than you, you need to adapt and make riskier plays - increase the variance, not reduce it. My biggest complaint yesterday was not going for it on some of those fourth downs, particularly with our defense gasping for breath.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

He was throwing dimes in the first quarter. I have no idea why we stopped and literally did not score again until the 4th quarter.

Phil Perry just wrote about this. Started on fire in 2TE offense. 2 touchdowns in the first quarter. Then went away again, Jonnu and Henry barely played together the 2nd and 3rd quarter. We have an oc who reverts to crappy spread shotgun after the first 10 pregame scripted plays

 

[sb1]

I wonder if some caution at the end of the half was because they were worried about the after-effects of that massive hit Mac took. Perhaps they thought he wasn't quite all there.

That thought crossed my mind. That's the only way BB's dumb explanations for all of that could make logical sense, he didn't want to say outright that his QB might gotten hurt or might have sustained a concussion which would raise some eyebrows with the league - and they wanted to be careful with him. So instead he came up with some talking points as dumb as they sounded.

Was Mac actually checked in concussion protocol and cleared? He looked woozy jogging to the sidelines after getting Rock-bottomed by Gregory. I assume he had to be.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Can someone explain this quote to me? Zurleins range seems like it would be an argument to go for it. Or is bill saying they just conceded the game?

I'm trying to play this thought process out. He's saying Zurlein is dangerous. So a Cowboy's 1st down puts them in good FG range. So then.... punt ?

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

That thought crossed my mind. That's the only way BB's dumb explanations for all of that could make logical sense, he didn't want to say outright that his QB might gotten hurt or might have sustained a concussion which would raise some eyebrows with the league - and they wanted to be careful with him. So instead he came up with some talking points as dumb as they sounded.

Was Mac actually checked in concussion protocol and cleared? He looked woozy jogging to the sidelines after getting Rock-bottomed by Gregory. I assume he had to be.

What's clear is after his MONSTER HIT fumble because of a crappy OLine and crappy oc, he probably was very jumbled in the head the rest of the afternoon. Or they played it like that. Mac was clutch hitting Bourne later in the game.

 

[everlong]

I see the Pats play the Bills twice in 3 weeks. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing for us.

I think it's a good thing. When I made the comment about coin flips I think you consider two things. If you both play your best game who wins? Second what are the chances both teams play their best game? With the other teams the talent isn't that different and many of the teams who do have more talent (Chargers, Browns....) are wildly inconsistent and have matchups that can be exploited.

With the Bills you have to hope you can steal one with a great game plan or they simply have an off day. The problem with the Bills is after two decades of getting crushed by the Pats they aren't going to overlook them the way they might another team.

 

[captain stone]

@Ian - wasn't this supposed to be content thread?

Isn't it enough that this guy trashes Main Board with new threads every other minute?
Aren't there enough trash threads out there?
Do we have to have this kind of trash also in PFK?
Can we have one normal thread per week?

Your trash is our treasure.

 

[captain stone]

He is saying that if you fail on a 4th down at your own 46 you are dead.
How hard is that to understand. Did you not watch Miami lose because they did exactly that?

Well we lost anyway, so...

 

[DropKickFlutie]

1. Regarding Jones in the pocket, I disagree that he's a statue in the pocket. When he senses the rush he actually does a great job of moving within the pocket to gain time. The issue is he doesn't always sense the rush. I think we need to be patient and remember even Brady who is elite at this skillset sometimes doesn't feel it coming. But man has he gotten lit up a few times this year and most recently by Gregory yesterday.

2. The OL is still the biggest issue with this team. The Meyers TD gets taken off the board and the next play they whiff and Jones gets burried for a loss and they end up with no points on the drive with the turnover. They could have separated from Dallas on that drive.

3. What a route by Bourne. If that was Davonte Adams or a high profile guy the media would be fawning all over him today.

4. Meyers just continues to improve and catch everything, even when he's getting lit up. That helmet to helmet miss was unforgivable by the zebras.

5. It's too bad Mills gave up the game winning TD and it wasn't even close. He's been an underrated edition overall.

6. I wish players would stop changing numbers. 38 I kept thinking was Bolden and had to remind myself it was Stevenson. Same with 15 and Agholor and Harry. Bentely being 8, etc.

7. Agree with the comments on playing not to lose. 3rd and 25 and you give up 24 playing soft and they kick a FG. 3rd and 20 you give up 18 and then they pick it up on 4th down. 4th and 3 on their side of the 50 and we punt. The play calling on both sides is this way. I know Bill plays to let the other team F it up but that works a lot better when you're the more talented team. They're clearly not this year. So you need to assume more risk. You don't need to play the 46 defense or becoming the greatest show on turf but come on.

8. WTF is up with special teams? Bill spends a ton of money on players who are special teams only so I expect those units to be near perfect. Another blocked kick? Inexcusable. It's not likely any of the units have stood out, flipped the field or made much of a difference.

9. As others have said Hightower is done.

10. Minus the two Bills games I think the Patriots are a coin flip vs everyone else. Sure the Chargers and others have more talent but we saw yesterday with them and the Browns that they're beatable through exposable matchups. This team is 1-3 in single score games. They have to learn how to win these. A fumble, a crossbar and being too timid resulted in 3 losses by an average of 3 points. In the final 11 games I wouldn't doubt that 9+ are single score games. They're going to have to flip the script on how these are finishing to have any shot of being respectable nevermind grabbing a WC spot, and yes I'm not ruling that out in spite of the evidence that I should.

This was a good post. With good content and rationale. I highly recommend this post to be read.

[Content Post].

.

 

[Ring 6]

Well we lost anyway, so...

That doesn’t mean going for it wouldn’t have had the same result.

 

[everlong]

 

[50-yard-line]

Just want to say that anyone talking about bad drafting in years 2014, 15, 16, 17 as a reason for the current team really shouldn't be taken seriously.

All of those missed "hits" would be on second deals now, costing as much as the FAs we brought in if they were any good.

Pittsburgh hit on a 2017 draftee big time in TJ Watt. They just paid him $110million and $80 guaranteed - mor than a 1/3rd of the guaranteed the pats laid out for Mills, Judon, Henry, Smith, Bourne, Agholor, Godchaux, Wise, Guy, Anderson, Karras, Andrews COMBINED, for 4 years of service (and massive money lost any time he's hurt), whereas the Pats got more than 40 years of service expected from their FAs.

The point is: even hitting on drafts affects the first four years, or less, of team cap management. Those years aren't why they were hollowed out.

 

[SVN]

Phil Perry just wrote about this. Started on fire in 2TE offense. 2 touchdowns in the first quarter. Then went away again, Jonnu and Henry barely played together the 2nd and 3rd quarter. We have an oc who reverts to crappy spread shotgun after the first 10 pregame scripted plays

BB said as much today. They didnt have too many plays left out of that set.

 

[captain stone]

BB said as much today. They didnt have too many plays left out of that set.

Then run the same ****ing plays that worked earlier Bill!

What a ****ing inexcusable excuse that is... We ran out of plays... Wow...

 

[GaryfromTO]

I'm not on the fire Bill bandwagon as he has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know. That said, I will say this. Either Bill has lost his cajones or he has no confidence in his team.
The end of the first half, with 1:30 on the clock and you take a knee. The excuse of "we were getting the ball back to start the 2nd half" just doesn't cut it with me.
The Bill of the past would have tried to go for the double dagger, score to end the 1/2, score to start the 2nd half. But take a knee. C'mon Bill, seriously?
What kind of message does that send to your offense?
You either have faith in your team or you coach scared. Right now, Bill is coaching scared.

 

[PScottman]

This offers an interesting discussion about when best to take/play rookie QB that i might get into elsewhere - build team first add rookie QB later to maximise his cheap yrs or take rookie QB and build team around him with extra $.

I'll offer another angle...in the salary cap era and after multiple consecutive winning seasons, how many other teams get the future "franchise potential" QB with the high pick without at least one or two previous years high draft picks (picks say at least #8-15) already in the fold?

I mean when was the last time the Patriots had another top 15 first rounder? (Solder if you were wondering, ten years ago, and that was actually pick#17; Mayo was last one in 2008 at pick#10...) The two before that Ty Warren and Richard Seymour. Most teams getting a franchise QB probably have at least 1-2 other high picks already on the club.When the Pats have a high pick - they hit on good to great players. Lower picks first round and on...WAY lower percentage (as I've said because Belichick kept drafting for potential home run - high risk picks - has not panned out). Add in further complexity that the past building blocks like HT and McCourty that MIGHT have been that cross-over of team "generations" foundation - probably here a year late rather than early as we see now (again to try and have SOMETHING around to mentor and maintain the culture that mostly left with Brady). A risk, but historical data would say a moderate rather than high risk, that simply didn't pan out and also limited the other (and more expensive) team building option - free agency

So to your point, "how" to rebuild is further complicated by the past winning.

I don't think there is a tried and true answer to your question though. It's rare seeing just integration to an existing team foundation of a franchise potential QB nowadays as many teams will completely gut (usually including the entire coaching staff) a lot of their roster either right before or right after the potential franchise QB draft.

Uncharted waters that I'm starting to get the feeling will only get deeper....and more treacherous...as this season goes on. Entitlement to winning creates likely very opportunistic media and fandom that won't hesitate to crucify any they feel don't immediately satisfy that entitlement.

Or more simply - patience is a rare virtue.