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Content Post Idle thoughts: The "and this is why you DON'T play not to lose" edition

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 82.7% at BUF: 17.3%

Mon
Dec 6th

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This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

patfanken

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There is going to be a lot of outrage out there tonight. Dallas has a FANTASTIC offensive team and some great individual defensive players. They are far ahead (at this point) than the Pats, but as everyone saw this was a game where the Pats could have. won this game at several points in the ball game. I'm writing this almost immediately after the game because I can't do a midnight to 3am diatribe. Too much to do tomorrow.

I'm sure most of us are angry at this point an ready to point out the errors players and coaches made in this game. Lost in all th8is are the good stuff we are going to be quick to overlook, but it was there. Dallas is a top 3 NFC team and will be a hard out come the playoffs (they have no other competition in the NFCE). So rather than breaking it down in any organized fashion, I am going to just rattle off thoughts about the game that come to me. Hopefully they'll make sense in the end.

1. Mac lacks any escapeability in the pocket. The kid is great IN the pocket, but when it breaks down he has yet to learn how to escape and extend the play. He literally lives and dies inside that red X seven yards deep behind the C. Now for the most part it works for him, but for him to take the next step, he needs to know when land how to flee. Now granted he's no Kyler or Patrick back there but his combine results ARE almost identical to the QB we saw on the other side of the ball, when you compare their combine scores and sizes. They both ran 4.8 forties. they both are just over 6'2 2 and 220lbs and Mac's 3 cone time (short area quickness) was actually better (7.04 vs 7.12) The difference was Prescott was running for his life at Miss St. in the SEC, while Mac was living large behind an NFL ready OL and pro ready receivers. So this isn't something Mac CAN'T do, athletically but something that he needs to develop down the road, and that sadly will take time and a lot of trial and error that goes with being a rookie QB inn the NFL, even the most NFL guy ready in his class..

2. I sadly watched Dante Hightower closely on several plays over the course of the evening and then I stopped because it was getting sad. Yeah I know he had 4 tackles somewhere along the night, but too often I would see him glued to a OLman while a RB was cutting back into the hole he was SUPPOSED to be covering. The job of a LB (and I was one), when an offensive lineman comes out to block you was to hit through him and use that contact shock to RELEASE to the ball. Back in my day before you could extend your arms on offense, a forearm shiver to the head,, if delivered correctly, would allow me to get off the ball quickly to pursue the ball. All I saw today was High dancing with his Dallas partner, while the RB romped untouched through the gap I assumed was his.

Worse Dante just looked slow and plodding, and worse yet disinterested. There was none of the explosiveness that we had always expected from his game. We will always be consider an a good solid player who always upped his game during the playoffs. but not this year.....so far. KVN as well, but to a lesser degree. And while I'll give Jamie Collins a few games before I render judgement, the camera caught Bill having what looked like a "WTF were you doing" conversation with Jamie in the 2nd half. It left me wondering if Jamie part 3 will be the same old same old So needless to say when Jerome Bently is now your best ILB, then its time to start thinking of a LB redo. (and he was all over the field with 14 tackles)

Still talking about disappointing LB's, IF you told me last April I could get Micah Parsons and Davis Mills with my first 2 picks I would have been thrilled. I saw Parsons dismantle a SD back up OT over and over again one game and all I could say was WOW. Last night? Did you hear his name called ONCE? No you didn't and when I checked the stats, his name wasn't on it at all. So be careful what you wish for, Ken. ;)

3. Contrary to the LB's the DL, I thought played its best game of the year. They did a good job vs the run (Is t was the LB's I blame for the big gains. The Goal line stand and the short yardage 3rd downs where what we hoped. Hard to use the word "great" when the opposition gains over 500 yds, but of the 3 defensive units the DL bears the least of the blame, at least IMHO. Given that all the Passing should have opened up the Run Game, Dallas' 3.9 ypc average over 31 carries seems pretty solid to me. The Pats on the other hand with their patch work OL averaged 4.4ypc on 27 carries.

4. I'm sure DKF will demand summary executions for the OL coach and several players, but the fact remains for all the noise, Dallas had just 2 sacks and 5 QB hits. It wasn't great, but not the disaster the Game Day board made it seem. (btw - when Jones learns to use his athleticism to escape more it will help his OL a lot. Prescott did it several times to much effectiveness. The Pats only managed 4 QB's on Prescott all evening. Which makes me wonder again, "where have you gone Joch Uche, a nation turns its lonely eyes on you". He looked so dynamic in preseason, I really thought we had a find and I stopped looking to have him play ILB, as OUR speed LB. If he can't learn to turn his speed and athleticism into pressures maybe we should look at him in the middle next year.

What this defense needs is a Devon White kind of LB who can both run sideline to sideline and cover as well. Won't CJ Mosely become a FA next year. I always liked his game (and he had a good one against the Pats. Mosley next to Bentley with KVN, Hightower and Collins all on a fishing trip next fall might be an improvement.

5 Coaching complaints: Aren't there always. ;) Well I only have one really, and that was not going for something at the end of the half with 1:30 on the clock and one TO. We had the chance to make an announcement to the league that the training wheels are off our QB, and we trust him in pressure situations where you have to have it. In a game where we had SOOO few offensive plays and the one of the best offenses in the league was pretty much having their way, we gave up an offensive possession and a chance to put some breathing room between us and the Cowboys,.

YES I understand all the sound reasons for making that decision. Yes the offense hadn't generated a first down since the Meyer almost TD. Yes, you really didn't want to give the ball back to the Cowboys with a minute left if you went 3 and out, and YES it made some sense just to get off the field with a lead and get some much needed rest for the defense. And yes you didn't want to punt until you were SURE you corrected what allowed the blocked punt, which you know they did at halftime. But that would be playing not to lose, not playing to win. EVERY scoring chance was important for the Pats, especially when they knew they were going to be in a shoot out,, and they just gave it away.

They literally told the Cowboys it was OK to squeeze all the Pats short routes and crossers. They can blitz that CB because they won't have to pay for it. And they can load up against the run because the Pats offense is limited to a 15 yd box. Its like the Pats offense is playing in the red zone all over the field. Compressed.

6. How many impact plays did Deven McCourty make tonight. ZERO. Devon is one of the Pats best defenders yet the Pats RARELY move him out that single high safety position where he could impact some plays. How many times did the Pats give up big plays to the Cowboys on crossers INFRONT of Devon. He was never in position to make a play on any of them because he was so deep So one of the team's best secondary player was taken out of the game by a simple scheme, while we saw Bethel, Mills, and Jones trail Lamb, Cooper and Wilson over and over again. Just once I wanted him to take a leap of faith and jump that route ONE time. Never happened.

7.Only 4 targets and 3 catches for our 2 TE's. I looked at Smith as being our Kelce, more receiver than TE, but not a shabby blocker either. Lots of safe outs, and delays that can be run by them, but never seem get noticed. Both seem to want the ball. Lets run some plays specifically for them. Good things seem to happen when they do.

8. OK enough Kvetching, that's yiddish for doing a DKF.(just kidding) There, like the losses to Miami, and Buc's there was a lot of things that this team can build on. My goal is to see them at least at 5-5 and its something I think can be accomplished as they get some guys off the injured list and IR and Josh removes some of the restraints.

9. On the plus side the Pats did manage to get 2 TO, a pick and a fumble, they also gave up 2 with the pick 6 and blocked kick, so, like I said, it wasn't what they needed to win against a superior opponent. Lots of what if's, (actually too many to go into, and we all know them anyway) just that were a lot of them during this game. Watching that game film will be very painful because of so many opportunities lost.


OK that's all for now. Comments and addition welcome. I'll be back Monday evening to see what you all have to say.


10.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Antonio Brown’s New Live-In Chef
PatsFans.com Supporter
There is going to be a lot of outrage out there tonight. Dallas has a FANTASTIC offensive team and some great individual defensive players. They are far ahead (at this point) than the Pats, but as everyone saw this was a game where the Pats could have. won this game at several points in the ball game. I'm writing this almost immediately after the game because I can't do a midnight to 3am diatribe. Too much to do tomorrow.

I'm sure most of us are angry at this point an ready to point out the errors players and coaches made in this game. Lost in all th8is are the good stuff we are going to be quick to overlook, but it was there. Dallas is a top 3 NFC team and will be a hard out come the playoffs (they have no other competition in the NFCE). So rather than breaking it down in any organized fashion, I am going to just rattle off thoughts about the game that come to me. Hopefully they'll make sense in the end.

1. Mac lacks any escapeability in the pocket. The kid is great IN the pocket, but when it breaks down he has yet to learn how to escape and extend the play. He literally lives and dies inside that red X seven yards deep behind the C. Now for the most part it works for him, but for him to take the next step, he needs to know when land how to flee. Now granted he's no Kyler or Patrick back there but his combine results ARE almost identical to the QB we saw on the other side of the ball, when you compare their combine scores and sizes. They both ran 4.8 forties. they both are just over 6'2 2 and 220lbs and Mac's 3 cone time (short area quickness) was actually better (7.04 vs 7.12) The difference was Prescott was running for his life at Miss St. in the SEC, while Mac was living large behind an NFL ready OL and pro ready receivers. So this isn't something Mac CAN'T do, athletically but something that he needs to develop down the road, and that sadly will take time and a lot of trial and error that goes with being a rookie QB inn the NFL, even the most NFL guy ready in his class..

2. I sadly watched Dante Hightower closely on several plays over the course of the evening and then I stopped because it was getting sad. Yeah I know he had 4 tackles somewhere along the night, but too often I would see him glued to a OLman while a RB was cutting back into the hole he was SUPPOSED to be covering. The job of a LB (and I was one), when an offensive lineman comes out to block you was to hit through him and use that contact shock to RELEASE to the ball. Back in my day before you could extend your arms on offense, a forearm shiver to the head,, if delivered correctly, would allow me to get off the ball quickly to pursue the ball. All I saw today was High dancing with his Dallas partner, while the RB romped untouched through the gap I assumed was his.

Worse Dante just looked slow and plodding, and worse yet disinterested. There was none of the explosiveness that we had always expected from his game. We will always be consider an a good solid player who always upped his game during the playoffs. but not this year.....so far. KVN as well, but to a lesser degree. And while I'll give Jamie Collins a few games before I render judgement, the camera caught Bill having what looked like a "WTF were you doing" conversation with Jamie in the 2nd half. It left me wondering if Jamie part 3 will be the same old same old So needless to say when Jerome Bently is now your best ILB, then its time to start thinking of a LB redo. (and he was all over the field with 14 tackles)

Still talking about disappointing LB's, IF you told me last April I could get Micah Parsons and Davis Mills with my first 2 picks I would have been thrilled. I saw Parsons dismantle a SD back up OT over and over again one game and all I could say was WOW. Last night? Did you hear his name called ONCE? No you didn't and when I checked the stats, his name wasn't on it at all. So be careful what you wish for, Ken. ;)

3. Contrary to the LB's the DL, I thought played its best game of the year. They did a good job vs the run (Is t was the LB's I blame for the big gains. The Goal line stand and the short yardage 3rd downs where what we hoped. Hard to use the word "great" when the opposition gains over 500 yds, but of the 3 defensive units the DL bears the least of the blame, at least IMHO. Given that all the Passing should have opened up the Run Game, Dallas' 3.9 ypc average over 31 carries seems pretty solid to me. The Pats on the other hand with their patch work OL averaged 4.4ypc on 27 carries.

4. I'm sure DKF will demand summary executions for the OL coach and several players, but the fact remains for all the noise, Dallas had just 2 sacks and 5 QB hits. It wasn't great, but not the disaster the Game Day board made it seem. (btw - when Jones learns to use his athleticism to escape more it will help his OL a lot. Prescott did it several times to much effectiveness. The Pats only managed 4 QB's on Prescott all evening. Which makes me wonder again, "where have you gone Joch Uche, a nation turns its lonely eyes on you". He looked so dynamic in preseason, I really thought we had a find and I stopped looking to have him play ILB, as OUR speed LB. If he can't learn to turn his speed and athleticism into pressures maybe we should look at him in the middle next year.

What this defense needs is a Devon White kind of LB who can both run sideline to sideline and cover as well. Won't CJ Mosely become a FA next year. I always liked his game (and he had a good one against the Pats. Mosley next to Bentley with KVN, Hightower and Collins all on a fishing trip next fall might be an improvement.

5 Coaching complaints: Aren't there always. ;) Well I only have one really, and that was not going for something at the end of the half with 1:30 on the clock and one TO. We had the chance to make an announcement to the league that the training wheels are off our QB, and we trust him in pressure situations where you have to have it. In a game where we had SOOO few offensive plays and the one of the best offenses in the league was pretty much having their way, we gave up an offensive possession and a chance to put some breathing room between us and the Cowboys,.

YES I understand all the sound reasons for making that decision. Yes the offense hadn't generated a first down since the Meyer almost TD. Yes, you really didn't want to give the ball back to the Cowboys with a minute left if you went 3 and out, and YES it made some sense just to get off the field with a lead and get some much needed rest for the defense. And yes you didn't want to punt until you were SURE you corrected what allowed the blocked punt, which you know they did at halftime. But that would be playing not to lose, not playing to win. EVERY scoring chance was important for the Pats, especially when they knew they were going to be in a shoot out,, and they just gave it away.

They literally told the Cowboys it was OK to squeeze all the Pats short routes and crossers. They can blitz that CB because they won't have to pay for it. And they can load up against the run because the Pats offense is limited to a 15 yd box. Its like the Pats offense is playing in the red zone all over the field. Compressed.

6. How many impact plays did Deven McCourty make tonight. ZERO. Devon is one of the Pats best defenders yet the Pats RARELY move him out that single high safety position where he could impact some plays. How many times did the Pats give up big plays to the Cowboys on crossers INFRONT of Devon. He was never in position to make a play on any of them because he was so deep So one of the team's best secondary player was taken out of the game by a simple scheme, while we saw Bethel, Mills, and Jones trail Lamb, Cooper and Wilson over and over again. Just once I wanted him to take a leap of faith and jump that route ONE time. Never happened.

7.Only 4 targets and 3 catches for our 2 TE's. I looked at Smith as being our Kelce, more receiver than TE, but not a shabby blocker either. Lots of safe outs, and delays that can be run by them, but never seem get noticed. Both seem to want the ball. Lets run some plays specifically for them. Good things seem to happen when they do.

8. OK enough Kvetching, that's yiddish for doing a DKF.(just kidding) There, like the losses to Miami, and Buc's there was a lot of things that this team can build on. My goal is to see them at least at 5-5 and its something I think can be accomplished as they get some guys off the injured list and IR and Josh removes some of the restraints.

9. On the plus side the Pats did manage to get 2 TO, a pick and a fumble, they also gave up 2 with the pick 6 and blocked kick, so, like I said, it wasn't what they needed to win against a superior opponent. Lots of what if's, (actually too many to go into, and we all know them anyway) just that were a lot of them during this game. Watching that game film will be very painful because of so many opportunities lost.


OK that's all for now. Comments and addition welcome. I'll be back Monday evening to see what you all have to say.


10.

Like you, I chalk up most mistakes to human error and just part of the imperfect, hindsight-fueled football process, except the one that seems inexcusable: the decision to piss away a possession. Screw all this about confidence, announcements, etc. is this team so fragile they need to kneel on the ball with 1:30 remaining? Mac has played in the final minutes of a few huge games but he can’t run the offense because “oh my god, what if they get the ball back!?l” They had all the momentum.

Bill said after the game they were getting the ball to start the second half as if that justifies his decision. Oh gee, really? Well having the ball at the end of the first half and beginning of the second half is the ideal scenario for why most teams to defer to begin with.

At the end of regulation, there were lots of big plays, big mistakes, missed calls, made calls, and it was 29-29. But only one team voluntarily surrendered a possession to put itself at a disadvantage…not because the refs or player execution or a tipped pass or fumble but because the coach made an indefensible decision, getting in the way of giving his players the best chance to win.

Maybe some losing will force Bill to justify a decision like this because fans and ownership may not be so willing to accept a ridiculous explanation/stonewalling like that from the coach of a losing team.
 

VectorPrime

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
There is going to have to be an almost total overhaul on the defensive side of the ball after this season similar to the post 2008 departure of almost everyone from the first dynasty. And I don’t think Kraft will be, or should be, willing to just throw money at it in free agency. This has to be a multi year process.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
There is going to have to be an almost total overhaul on the defensive side of the ball after this season similar to the post 2008 departure of almost everyone from the first dynasty. And I don’t think Kraft will be, or should be, willing to just throw money at it in free agency. This has to be a multi year process.
They missed badly on the FAs on that side. Even Judon is just a pure rusher of the passer which in the past we never paid for.
 

PScottman

In the Starting Line-Up
They don't exist, point blank. Any other coach in the league does this and we're all roasting them.
Let's have the conversation then - you seem to be on the fire Belichick Team. So #1 - who is replacing him and #2 - you're okay with the 2-3 year period to replace the current team with "the new guy's" guys, installing and learning the new system, etc?
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
Week after week we coach scared. Mac Jones has shown he can tear it up and throw the ball but we go away from it and back to this "run up the middle twice" having Mac throw it on 3rd down in a low percentage play.

Especially when you saw the kid complete an amazing pass to Meyers on 3rd down previously.

Kneeling at the end of the half, punting back to Dak when you know your defense is gassed is just gutless.

The team got their lead early in the game on Macs arm and deep passing but for whatever reason went back to the run up the middle until they got down after that first quarter.

At some point maybe we should try and be aggressive and just win the game? Not sure what they are trying to accomplish with this scared conservative offense.
 

DarrylS

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PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
The morning after this exciting game feeling pretty "blah". The game was close and exciting, but the Pats D could not stop the Cowboys.. I agree with your assessment of Dante and could probably bunch Van Noy in there as well. The defense is a mess, I know it is BB's D, but Stephen is the play caller... suggest mixing it up and giving Mayo a chance.

Josh was more creative in the gameplan this week, but Mac needs to figure out how to get out of trouble and the O line needs a lot of work.

When I watch a game such as this how can one team stay under the cap with so many "A" players while the Pats are loaded with "B" players?? The matchups do not seem or look "fair". The game stats only serve to validate this, TOP, #plays, # first downs etc.

My projections for this team are tempered and need to take off my rosey colored glasses.. 32/17 in first downs, 39/26 Time of Possession those numbers are telling..
 

borg

PatsFans.com Supporter
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
There is going to be a lot of outrage out there tonight. Dallas has a FANTASTIC offensive team and some great individual defensive players. They are far ahead (at this point) than the Pats, but as everyone saw this was a game where the Pats could have. won this game at several points in the ball game. I'm writing this almost immediately after the game because I can't do a midnight to 3am diatribe. Too much to do tomorrow.

I'm sure most of us are angry at this point an ready to point out the errors players and coaches made in this game. Lost in all th8is are the good stuff we are going to be quick to overlook, but it was there. Dallas is a top 3 NFC team and will be a hard out come the playoffs (they have no other competition in the NFCE). So rather than breaking it down in any organized fashion, I am going to just rattle off thoughts about the game that come to me. Hopefully they'll make sense in the end.

1. Mac lacks any escapeability in the pocket. The kid is great IN the pocket, but when it breaks down he has yet to learn how to escape and extend the play. He literally lives and dies inside that red X seven yards deep behind the C. Now for the most part it works for him, but for him to take the next step, he needs to know when land how to flee. Now granted he's no Kyler or Patrick back there but his combine results ARE almost identical to the QB we saw on the other side of the ball, when you compare their combine scores and sizes. They both ran 4.8 forties. they both are just over 6'2 2 and 220lbs and Mac's 3 cone time (short area quickness) was actually better (7.04 vs 7.12) The difference was Prescott was running for his life at Miss St. in the SEC, while Mac was living large behind an NFL ready OL and pro ready receivers. So this isn't something Mac CAN'T do, athletically but something that he needs to develop down the road, and that sadly will take time and a lot of trial and error that goes with being a rookie QB inn the NFL, even the most NFL guy ready in his class..

2. I sadly watched Dante Hightower closely on several plays over the course of the evening and then I stopped because it was getting sad. Yeah I know he had 4 tackles somewhere along the night, but too often I would see him glued to a OLman while a RB was cutting back into the hole he was SUPPOSED to be covering. The job of a LB (and I was one), when an offensive lineman comes out to block you was to hit through him and use that contact shock to RELEASE to the ball. Back in my day before you could extend your arms on offense, a forearm shiver to the head,, if delivered correctly, would allow me to get off the ball quickly to pursue the ball. All I saw today was High dancing with his Dallas partner, while the RB romped untouched through the gap I assumed was his.

Worse Dante just looked slow and plodding, and worse yet disinterested. There was none of the explosiveness that we had always expected from his game. We will always be consider an a good solid player who always upped his game during the playoffs. but not this year.....so far. KVN as well, but to a lesser degree. And while I'll give Jamie Collins a few games before I render judgement, the camera caught Bill having what looked like a "WTF were you doing" conversation with Jamie in the 2nd half. It left me wondering if Jamie part 3 will be the same old same old So needless to say when Jerome Bently is now your best ILB, then its time to start thinking of a LB redo. (and he was all over the field with 14 tackles)

Still talking about disappointing LB's, IF you told me last April I could get Micah Parsons and Davis Mills with my first 2 picks I would have been thrilled. I saw Parsons dismantle a SD back up OT over and over again one game and all I could say was WOW. Last night? Did you hear his name called ONCE? No you didn't and when I checked the stats, his name wasn't on it at all. So be careful what you wish for, Ken. ;)

3. Contrary to the LB's the DL, I thought played its best game of the year. They did a good job vs the run (Is t was the LB's I blame for the big gains. The Goal line stand and the short yardage 3rd downs where what we hoped. Hard to use the word "great" when the opposition gains over 500 yds, but of the 3 defensive units the DL bears the least of the blame, at least IMHO. Given that all the Passing should have opened up the Run Game, Dallas' 3.9 ypc average over 31 carries seems pretty solid to me. The Pats on the other hand with their patch work OL averaged 4.4ypc on 27 carries.

4. I'm sure DKF will demand summary executions for the OL coach and several players, but the fact remains for all the noise, Dallas had just 2 sacks and 5 QB hits. It wasn't great, but not the disaster the Game Day board made it seem. (btw - when Jones learns to use his athleticism to escape more it will help his OL a lot. Prescott did it several times to much effectiveness. The Pats only managed 4 QB's on Prescott all evening. Which makes me wonder again, "where have you gone Joch Uche, a nation turns its lonely eyes on you". He looked so dynamic in preseason, I really thought we had a find and I stopped looking to have him play ILB, as OUR speed LB. If he can't learn to turn his speed and athleticism into pressures maybe we should look at him in the middle next year.

What this defense needs is a Devon White kind of LB who can both run sideline to sideline and cover as well. Won't CJ Mosely become a FA next year. I always liked his game (and he had a good one against the Pats. Mosley next to Bentley with KVN, Hightower and Collins all on a fishing trip next fall might be an improvement.

5 Coaching complaints: Aren't there always. ;) Well I only have one really, and that was not going for something at the end of the half with 1:30 on the clock and one TO. We had the chance to make an announcement to the league that the training wheels are off our QB, and we trust him in pressure situations where you have to have it. In a game where we had SOOO few offensive plays and the one of the best offenses in the league was pretty much having their way, we gave up an offensive possession and a chance to put some breathing room between us and the Cowboys,.

YES I understand all the sound reasons for making that decision. Yes the offense hadn't generated a first down since the Meyer almost TD. Yes, you really didn't want to give the ball back to the Cowboys with a minute left if you went 3 and out, and YES it made some sense just to get off the field with a lead and get some much needed rest for the defense. And yes you didn't want to punt until you were SURE you corrected what allowed the blocked punt, which you know they did at halftime. But that would be playing not to lose, not playing to win. EVERY scoring chance was important for the Pats, especially when they knew they were going to be in a shoot out,, and they just gave it away.

They literally told the Cowboys it was OK to squeeze all the Pats short routes and crossers. They can blitz that CB because they won't have to pay for it. And they can load up against the run because the Pats offense is limited to a 15 yd box. Its like the Pats offense is playing in the red zone all over the field. Compressed.

6. How many impact plays did Deven McCourty make tonight. ZERO. Devon is one of the Pats best defenders yet the Pats RARELY move him out that single high safety position where he could impact some plays. How many times did the Pats give up big plays to the Cowboys on crossers INFRONT of Devon. He was never in position to make a play on any of them because he was so deep So one of the team's best secondary player was taken out of the game by a simple scheme, while we saw Bethel, Mills, and Jones trail Lamb, Cooper and Wilson over and over again. Just once I wanted him to take a leap of faith and jump that route ONE time. Never happened.

7.Only 4 targets and 3 catches for our 2 TE's. I looked at Smith as being our Kelce, more receiver than TE, but not a shabby blocker either. Lots of safe outs, and delays that can be run by them, but never seem get noticed. Both seem to want the ball. Lets run some plays specifically for them. Good things seem to happen when they do.

8. OK enough Kvetching, that's yiddish for doing a DKF.(just kidding) There, like the losses to Miami, and Buc's there was a lot of things that this team can build on. My goal is to see them at least at 5-5 and its something I think can be accomplished as they get some guys off the injured list and IR and Josh removes some of the restraints.

9. On the plus side the Pats did manage to get 2 TO, a pick and a fumble, they also gave up 2 with the pick 6 and blocked kick, so, like I said, it wasn't what they needed to win against a superior opponent. Lots of what if's, (actually too many to go into, and we all know them anyway) just that were a lot of them during this game. Watching that game film will be very painful because of so many opportunities lost.


OK that's all for now. Comments and addition welcome. I'll be back Monday evening to see what you all have to say.


10.
-Truthfully, I saw no space for Mac to escape when pressured.
After that crushing sack, McDaniels reverted from All World play caller in the 1st quarter to a more 1950's approach, which emboldened Dallas to bring more men in the box
-My biggest issue with NE LB player is the same as always. For some reason NE defenses ignore RBs releasing on pass pass patterns.
Did you see Elliot practically laughing after Bentley couldn't match his speed as Zeke easily outran his counterpart for another pass-to-RB 1st down.
-Regarding NE "only giving up 2 sacks and 5 hits", remember Mac only passed 21 times
-I'm substituting out 'coaching complaints' and inserting 'GM complaints'....
4th game in 6 where the NE roster simply doesn't measure up to it opponents.
The lack of talent is frightening, the roster holes are expanding.
No #1 CB vs a fleet of highly skilled/athletic WRs....forcing the NE secondary into the softest zone scheme I have ever witnessed
OL
LB
etc
-Can't remember McCourty's name being mentioned in the broadcast
-5 pass catches by the 4 new weapons
-Loved the late 4th quarter drive when NE finally found holes in the ground game
The glass half empty side of me has to point out it took about 6 stalled (fruitless) drives (after the big Mac sack) to find these running lanes
-It is truly amazing NE was able to hang with Dallas given the lopsided yds, TOP, etc.....
Penalties, redzone turnovers, Mike McCarthy coaching all kept NE in the game.
I just wish NE's playing calling didn't get so conservative in the 2nd, 3rd, and 3/4's of the 4th quarter.
-------------------------------------------

Mac certainly had the timing patterns down pat in the 1st quarter....ala Chad Pennington
A bit concerning NE needs timing patterns to get chunks of yds
When the timing patterns were exhausted, McDaniels dialed it down.....run, run, 3rd and long, punt

The injury list this week could be frightening

Hell of an entertaining game despite the outcome

JEST week has officially begun

And for the easily triggered, avert your eyes....
At 2-4, NE currently sitting in the 7th draft position
Tankathon | 2022 NFL Draft Order
The AFC East & South are really stinkin it up
 
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JayNM

In the Starting Line-Up
I said in 2019 that Bill needed 3 years after Brady left to reorganize the Patriots, before we contend for real for the SB again.

Well, now I am going to be more realistic, i guess. 3 years for BB to show that he can makes us contend in the playoffs.

We are in year 2, and things are mess because of 2 things, one ~long term and other ~short term

#1 - the decision-making throughout the years are finally taking its toll. You cant go 10 years or something without drafting single probowler and/or you need to have some good draft to at least build depth on the team. The Patriots didnt really have that, most our back-ups arent on rookie-contract and they arent perfoming all that well (except for 21 class). The great players that were our core are old, so they need replacements, but we dont have ANYBODY ready to take over. And finally the Gilmore and Thuney decision have started to look much worse.

#2 - Coaching this year has been plainly cowardly and stupid. No other way around it. There is no other explanation for that punt on OT against that Dallas offense. There is no explanation for the lack of 4th down tries. There is no explanation for the conservatism on the playcall for 90% of our games. There was a thread here, but it got closed. I agree wholeheartedly.

If by 2022 we dont became a good team.

Fire BB
 

Mr Snrub

Rookie
Not the best game from our coaches, but I'd still rather our coaches than theirs. Dallas would be scary with a competant HC.

One thing I've become accustomed to watching the Pats over the years is our D adjusting during a game. We'd often be porous early in a game but you knew we'd always figure it out. Didnt really have much confidence in us making a stop in OT. Maybe credit due to Dallas as they have a lot of talent on offense.

Enjoyable game but these OT games aren't suited for us across the pond, 3 hours sleep and back to work :zzz::rofl:
 

Rob0729

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
There is going to be a lot of outrage out there tonight. Dallas has a FANTASTIC offensive team and some great individual defensive players. They are far ahead (at this point) than the Pats, but as everyone saw this was a game where the Pats could have. won this game at several points in the ball game. I'm writing this almost immediately after the game because I can't do a midnight to 3am diatribe. Too much to do tomorrow.

I'm sure most of us are angry at this point an ready to point out the errors players and coaches made in this game. Lost in all th8is are the good stuff we are going to be quick to overlook, but it was there. Dallas is a top 3 NFC team and will be a hard out come the playoffs (they have no other competition in the NFCE). So rather than breaking it down in any organized fashion, I am going to just rattle off thoughts about the game that come to me. Hopefully they'll make sense in the end.

1. Mac lacks any escapeability in the pocket. The kid is great IN the pocket, but when it breaks down he has yet to learn how to escape and extend the play. He literally lives and dies inside that red X seven yards deep behind the C. Now for the most part it works for him, but for him to take the next step, he needs to know when land how to flee. Now granted he's no Kyler or Patrick back there but his combine results ARE almost identical to the QB we saw on the other side of the ball, when you compare their combine scores and sizes. They both ran 4.8 forties. they both are just over 6'2 2 and 220lbs and Mac's 3 cone time (short area quickness) was actually better (7.04 vs 7.12) The difference was Prescott was running for his life at Miss St. in the SEC, while Mac was living large behind an NFL ready OL and pro ready receivers. So this isn't something Mac CAN'T do, athletically but something that he needs to develop down the road, and that sadly will take time and a lot of trial and error that goes with being a rookie QB inn the NFL, even the most NFL guy ready in his class..

2. I sadly watched Dante Hightower closely on several plays over the course of the evening and then I stopped because it was getting sad. Yeah I know he had 4 tackles somewhere along the night, but too often I would see him glued to a OLman while a RB was cutting back into the hole he was SUPPOSED to be covering. The job of a LB (and I was one), when an offensive lineman comes out to block you was to hit through him and use that contact shock to RELEASE to the ball. Back in my day before you could extend your arms on offense, a forearm shiver to the head,, if delivered correctly, would allow me to get off the ball quickly to pursue the ball. All I saw today was High dancing with his Dallas partner, while the RB romped untouched through the gap I assumed was his.

Worse Dante just looked slow and plodding, and worse yet disinterested. There was none of the explosiveness that we had always expected from his game. We will always be consider an a good solid player who always upped his game during the playoffs. but not this year.....so far. KVN as well, but to a lesser degree. And while I'll give Jamie Collins a few games before I render judgement, the camera caught Bill having what looked like a "WTF were you doing" conversation with Jamie in the 2nd half. It left me wondering if Jamie part 3 will be the same old same old So needless to say when Jerome Bently is now your best ILB, then its time to start thinking of a LB redo. (and he was all over the field with 14 tackles)

Still talking about disappointing LB's, IF you told me last April I could get Micah Parsons and Davis Mills with my first 2 picks I would have been thrilled. I saw Parsons dismantle a SD back up OT over and over again one game and all I could say was WOW. Last night? Did you hear his name called ONCE? No you didn't and when I checked the stats, his name wasn't on it at all. So be careful what you wish for, Ken. ;)

3. Contrary to the LB's the DL, I thought played its best game of the year. They did a good job vs the run (Is t was the LB's I blame for the big gains. The Goal line stand and the short yardage 3rd downs where what we hoped. Hard to use the word "great" when the opposition gains over 500 yds, but of the 3 defensive units the DL bears the least of the blame, at least IMHO. Given that all the Passing should have opened up the Run Game, Dallas' 3.9 ypc average over 31 carries seems pretty solid to me. The Pats on the other hand with their patch work OL averaged 4.4ypc on 27 carries.

4. I'm sure DKF will demand summary executions for the OL coach and several players, but the fact remains for all the noise, Dallas had just 2 sacks and 5 QB hits. It wasn't great, but not the disaster the Game Day board made it seem. (btw - when Jones learns to use his athleticism to escape more it will help his OL a lot. Prescott did it several times to much effectiveness. The Pats only managed 4 QB's on Prescott all evening. Which makes me wonder again, "where have you gone Joch Uche, a nation turns its lonely eyes on you". He looked so dynamic in preseason, I really thought we had a find and I stopped looking to have him play ILB, as OUR speed LB. If he can't learn to turn his speed and athleticism into pressures maybe we should look at him in the middle next year.

What this defense needs is a Devon White kind of LB who can both run sideline to sideline and cover as well. Won't CJ Mosely become a FA next year. I always liked his game (and he had a good one against the Pats. Mosley next to Bentley with KVN, Hightower and Collins all on a fishing trip next fall might be an improvement.

5 Coaching complaints: Aren't there always. ;) Well I only have one really, and that was not going for something at the end of the half with 1:30 on the clock and one TO. We had the chance to make an announcement to the league that the training wheels are off our QB, and we trust him in pressure situations where you have to have it. In a game where we had SOOO few offensive plays and the one of the best offenses in the league was pretty much having their way, we gave up an offensive possession and a chance to put some breathing room between us and the Cowboys,.

YES I understand all the sound reasons for making that decision. Yes the offense hadn't generated a first down since the Meyer almost TD. Yes, you really didn't want to give the ball back to the Cowboys with a minute left if you went 3 and out, and YES it made some sense just to get off the field with a lead and get some much needed rest for the defense. And yes you didn't want to punt until you were SURE you corrected what allowed the blocked punt, which you know they did at halftime. But that would be playing not to lose, not playing to win. EVERY scoring chance was important for the Pats, especially when they knew they were going to be in a shoot out,, and they just gave it away.

They literally told the Cowboys it was OK to squeeze all the Pats short routes and crossers. They can blitz that CB because they won't have to pay for it. And they can load up against the run because the Pats offense is limited to a 15 yd box. Its like the Pats offense is playing in the red zone all over the field. Compressed.

6. How many impact plays did Deven McCourty make tonight. ZERO. Devon is one of the Pats best defenders yet the Pats RARELY move him out that single high safety position where he could impact some plays. How many times did the Pats give up big plays to the Cowboys on crossers INFRONT of Devon. He was never in position to make a play on any of them because he was so deep So one of the team's best secondary player was taken out of the game by a simple scheme, while we saw Bethel, Mills, and Jones trail Lamb, Cooper and Wilson over and over again. Just once I wanted him to take a leap of faith and jump that route ONE time. Never happened.

7.Only 4 targets and 3 catches for our 2 TE's. I looked at Smith as being our Kelce, more receiver than TE, but not a shabby blocker either. Lots of safe outs, and delays that can be run by them, but never seem get noticed. Both seem to want the ball. Lets run some plays specifically for them. Good things seem to happen when they do.

8. OK enough Kvetching, that's yiddish for doing a DKF.(just kidding) There, like the losses to Miami, and Buc's there was a lot of things that this team can build on. My goal is to see them at least at 5-5 and its something I think can be accomplished as they get some guys off the injured list and IR and Josh removes some of the restraints.

9. On the plus side the Pats did manage to get 2 TO, a pick and a fumble, they also gave up 2 with the pick 6 and blocked kick, so, like I said, it wasn't what they needed to win against a superior opponent. Lots of what if's, (actually too many to go into, and we all know them anyway) just that were a lot of them during this game. Watching that game film will be very painful because of so many opportunities lost.


OK that's all for now. Comments and addition welcome. I'll be back Monday evening to see what you all have to say.


10.

All due respect Ken, I think Jones has decent to good escapability for a pure pocket passing for a rookie. He isn't ever going to be Dak Prescott or Kyler Murray in that area. He just isn't that mobile. His escapability is going be done inside the pocket, not outside. He needs to step up and avoid pressure like Brady or Marino before him. He is going avoid pressure inside the pocket not scrambling outside.

So far he has been very good at times knowing when to step up a few steps to avoid the rush. He seems to have the ability to sense pressure and either step up to avoid the rush or get rid of the ball quickly. In several games so far, there has been a lot of cases where the pocket collapsed around him where stepping or scrambling outside the pocket wouldn't do anything. But I think he showed he could definitely become a QB who is high escapability within the pocket ala Brady.

Sure Jones is more mobile than Brady, but he is not a mobile QB. I think trying to make him into a QB who rolls out of the pocket to avoid the rush may be counter productive. It doesn't play to his strengths. I think it is better for him to work on his mobility within the pocket which plays to his strengths.
 

SVN

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
Let's have the conversation then - you seem to be on the fire Belichick Team. So #1 - who is replacing him and #2 - you're okay with the 2-3 year period to replace the current team with "the new guy's" guys, installing and learning the new system, etc?
The local media is going to start this train soon. Trust me. They have been waiting for this for 20yrs.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I'd say one of the weaker analyses of the year, might want to wait a couple more hours next time.

1. Pats are 2-4. It is what it is.
2. Pats offense only ran 50 plays, Cowboys ran 82 plays. Cowboys had 40 minutes time of possession. The Pats offense went 3 and out, about 5 straight possessions which really left the Pats defense out to dry. Pats defense held the Cowboys to only 10 points in the first half which is fantastic. Poor complementary football by the Pats offense led to defense getting exhausted and giving up the most passing yards ever by a BB defense.
3. OLine wasn't horrendous but Cajuste got posterized and then Wynn got posterized. Keep Herron at LT and Onwenu at RT. And stop swapping tackles mid-game for 6 straight games. Harris ran for 100 yards and team had 2 rushing TDs.
4. Bentley and Mills were torched all game long. Bentley's tackle numbers are inflated, can't cover anybody till after they catch it. Mills was torched all game long.
5. Only 4 total targets to tight ends. After the first 10 scripted plays that try to get TEs involved and a balanced run attack, team always lazily reverts back to spread shotgun. OC has zero clue how to use Jonnu, plays Jonnu like a FB.
6. Team misses an elite CB1. No BB defense ever did much without being able to play physical cover man1. The moment you see the CBs play 10 yards off the ball it's like deja vu for 2005, 2009 lost seasons. JJones is a slot CB, JC is good but maybe not a true CB1, and if Mills is your CB2 then the secondary can be attacked.

.
 

long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I'm substituting out 'coaching complaints' and inserting 'GM complaints'....
4th game in 6 where the NE roster simply doesn't measure up to it opponents.
The lack of talent is frightening, the roster holes are expanding.

Thats a good start for discussion . ill take the bold part as poetic exaggeration.
Although i have to wonder what part of REBUILD (year 1) people dont understand.
A. For variety of reasons - 2020 was disbandment year - after 20y of dominance. It was long time coming, longer than anyone ever imagined.
B. Consecutive bad Drafts (on a low Draft capital to be fair) made the holes bigger. Anyone could understand rebuild will take time. It always does anyway.

@ REBUILD YEAR 1
1. They kept key coaches experienced in the system intact (Popovich unfortunately later lost due to Covid) and adding more youth.
2. Changes were made in drafting process & staff. On a better draft capital they seem to have a better Draft with several players significantly contributing as rookies.
3. More importantly they seem to have found their QB.
> This offers an interesting discussion about when best to take/play rookie QB that i might get into elsewhere - build team first add rookie QB later to maximise his cheap yrs or take rookie QB and build team around him with extra $. The fact that BB had no intention to move up for the last potential franchise QB remaining and the FA/contract to Cam suggest he was willing to go either way depending how situation plays out.
Looking at QBs next Draft or two (atm) and the state of Rebuild that feels almost half way through (QB, OL 2-3, SKILL 3-5; EDGE 1-2, CB 1, SLOT 1-2, DL 1) taking QB this year was better way to go.
4. Despite stupid “spending spree“ tag this FA was in fact typical Patriots make best use of below-market value situation. They used the large cap space they created by disbandment year to invest in pieces to build on & help them compete this year.
4a. This was far from “all-in“ FA : despite significant spending esp. in guaranteed $ they are still in good to very good Cap shape. They are still one of the very few teams that did not push any $ forward from existing contract etc. They are in good position to continue relatively fast Rebuild next yrs.
5. They kept some franchise vets on high contracts and declining production to keep some experience on the field & culture balance (imo).
6. They kept - gave some Draft “busts“ “last chance saloon“ opportunity to step up which made sense at the time despite not looking good now.


From GM perspective I was a bit disappointed - at the time as now - how they addressed OL (draft) and DB (FA) positions.
I also didn't like 2y guaranteed Agholor contract (not bc hindsight that is still tbd) but bc i didnt think such strong investment in a volatile position in Year 1 of Rebuild is the best way to go.

Despite “glaring holes“ remaining & some limited talent they still rostered relatively competitive team which is important regardless of the score.
Teaching and learning on competitive team (even if rebuilding and lacking quality/depth) is very important for the future.

If all goes well they will have QB on low cap for 6-7 years - plenty of time and opp to build.


ps
Now pats fans are pissed the team is 2-4. At the end of the season they will be pissed about Draft position :)
 
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RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up

Can someone explain this quote to me? Zurleins range seems like it would be an argument to go for it. Or is bill saying they just conceded the game?
 

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