Christian Barmore the most double-teamed DT in the NFL?

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Who’s a guy we’d like to see paired up w Barrymore?

either college or pro... or a generic build/skill set...

This dude ...



loves using that snatch move to shed in the run game. Bad rep for Neal though. Has to lose that "bench press" movements with his arms. Giving up his chest too easy.


Ideal for multiple fronts, sub-packages. Unbelievable versatility, effective versatility. 7, 5T, 4i, line him up anywhere. Very comfortable playing from inside, 5T. Lots of power and I believe he can still add a bunch of strength bc he's still filling out as crazy as it sounds. 6'4 290 but will be playing around 300 very soon. Still has a little baby fat but he's a dude.

Power player that can go through you but plays with real finesse and agility to cross face, knife gaps and work through traffic. Needs to be smoother putting counters together off his plan A but he's got a nice little variety package he can dip into.

His length is problem for most linemen. If he gets inside hands like he did with Neal above and usually a wrap. Long lean dude at 6'4 290. Knows how to use his length at the poa. Could definitely improve his hands.

I'd love to see him in a more defined role, particularly at 5t, 7 next level.


The other guy I've been infatuated with is George Karlaftis. Another big baby face beast. I love watching him play football. Looks like a top 25 prospect imo.

Incredible motor and fight. He never stops hustling. Powerful paws that pack a punch and move you. Clears his opponents hands with forklifts, swipes and snatch. Lots of room to improve in the run game imo but he's got a lot potential everywhere.








I mentioned a few IDL names above.

 

[‘Mondre]

works for me... out of curiosity, were you thinking of Drew or Lionel?

Oh, and i would have accepted stoopid autocorrect as well...

Lionel but you knew that

 

[Pape]

Lionel but you knew that

lmfao

 

[NormZauchin]

Who’s a guy we’d like to see paired up w Barrymore?

either college or pro... or a generic build/skill set...

Lionel Barrymore was paired with Jimmy Stewart in It's a Wonderful Life.

 

[Brotherblues]

works for me... out of curiosity, were you thinking of Drew or Lionel?

Oh, and i would have accepted stoopid autocorrect as well...

Also would it be Drew Barrymore circa 1999?

 

[Pape]

Also would it be Drew Barrymore circa 1999?

lessee... that works

 

[SlowGettingUp]

This is why there are 2 axes on the graph. One of them pretty clearly shows how good the player was, and Poe was on the bad side of that axis. Of course, you can say this about Barmore too.

Yes, but there is also some suggestion here that if a player always occupies a double team they must be doing something good, even if they aren't getting pressures. But some of it is clearly scheme-related, as it was with Poe (and presumably Butler here last year too). If Barmore is asked to just absorb the double teams without being moved off his spot much, then he wouldn't also be expected to get many pressures.

 

[JayNM]

Being double teamed

Here's last year - Butler was indeed heavily double-teamed (70% rate), but not as much as Barmore this year.



Poe was the "winner" in 2020, which says something about this stat as a measure of how good the player is (he was released).

Being double teamed does not mean "doing a good job". Sure, maybe you keep 2 guys busy, but are you sure thats not part of the plan?

If OCs see guy who cant shed blocks and get pushed around on DTs, just engage early and then release. You need to win at least some, otherwise you are not occupying space

To visualize this graph, the farthest you are from the line X=Y, approximately, the worse you are. Thats why Poe was released, he's stats were abysmal

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Being double teamed

Being double teamed does not mean "doing a good job". Sure, maybe you keep 2 guys busy, but are you sure thats not part of the plan?

If OCs see guy who cant shed blocks and get pushed around on DTs, just engage early and then release. You need to win at least some, otherwise you are not occupying space

To visualize this graph, the farthest you are from the line X=Y, approximately, the worse you are. Thats why Poe was released, he's stats were abysmal

I think I understand what you mean by X=Y. The graph's origin does not start at X=0, Y=0 and each axis is scaled differently, so I think X=Y might be wrong. For instance Jaleel Johnson was worse (more abysmal) than Dontari Poe but closer to the X=Y line.

What is desirable on the graph is X*Y (X times Y) being the highest number, and that is debatable as well. For example Aaron Donald's X*Y value is roughly the same as Grady Jarrett's, but Donald's ability to command double teams is more valuable IMO.

So maybe what is the most desirable is (X*Y)+X? Not an easy graph to interpret.

 

[JayNM]

I think I understand what you mean by X=Y. The graph's origin does not start at X=0, Y=0 and each axis is scaled differently, so I think X=Y might be wrong. For instance Jaleel Johnson was worse (more abysmal) than Dontari Poe but closer to the X=Y line.

What is desirable on the graph is X*Y (X times Y) being the highest number, and that is debatable as well. For example Aaron Donald's X*Y value is roughly the same as Grady Jarrett's, but Donald's ability to command double teams is more valuable IMO.

So maybe what is the most desirable is (X*Y)+X? Not an easy graph to interpret.

If by X*Y you mean it's an exponential digression (y= ab*X), I have to disagree.

What meant by X=Y is that this probably looks more like a linear regression than exponential (if you have statistics background, then to be more precise, this is very likely polynomial regression, but with linear Indepent values in its majority.) At least that's how most perfomance indexes work, and i dont see a pattern of exponentialism on this sample

Generally in econometrics Y is always the dependent variable, I honestly dont think you can multiple the the dependent variable (Y) with the indepent one (X) expect in very very VERY special cases

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I hate to be a downer, but couldn't the simple explanation be that our other linemen have been so poor that teams don't have to devote any extra resources to blocking them? Barmore may be doubled because he's one of the few interior guys who's showing any signs of life.

Whew. That was tough to get out of my homer system.

 

[Ring 6]

I hate to be a downer, but couldn't the simple explanation be that our other linemen have been so poor that teams don't have to devote any extra resources to blocking them? Barmore may be doubled because he's one of the few interior guys who's showing any signs of life.

Whew. That was tough to get out of my homer system.

Consider that the pass defense and the pass rush has been good, no that’s probably not it.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Consider that the pass defense and the pass rush has been good, no that’s probably not it.

No, they haven't been good. Maybe above average, but not stellar. The numbers in aggregate look great, sure, but it's against sub-par competition. In must-have situations, they're not stopping the run well enough. Against the pass, Judon has been excellent. Who else is succeeding at rushing the passer right now, however? Barmore shows promise, but he has a ways to go to turn that into production.

Believe it or not, I'm about as big of a homer as anyone on here. I want the team to do well. I cheer for everyone to succeed. Right now, however, we need the interior DL to step up if we want to be a serious playoff contender. I still believe we can secure a wildcard spot, but how far we go will depend on the DL (and OL) not falling apart. The front seven can improve -- and I think they will -- but right now they're not doing a solid enough job holding their gaps and disengaging from blocks.

 

[jah]

If by X*Y you mean it's an exponential digression (y= ab*X), I have to disagree.

What meant by X=Y is that this probably looks more like a linear regression than exponential (if you have statistics background, then to be more precise, this is very likely polynomial regression, but with linear Indepent values in its majority.) At least that's how most perfomance indexes work, and i dont see a pattern of exponentialism on this sample

Generally in econometrics Y is always the dependent variable, I honestly dont think you can multiple the the dependent variable (Y) with the indepent one (X) expect in very very VERY special cases

Is this really a model or is it just a representation of two independent variables without any suggestion one affects the other? I think they're just on the same graph for convenience.

 

[JayNM]

Is this really a model or is it just a representation of two independent variables without any suggestion one affects the other? I think they're just on the same graph for conveniences

There is nothing to suggest they are correlated based on the graph, you are correct

Reading it back, I was definitely unclear, in this case both X and Y (the axis) are independent variables. In a regression, they would be X1 and X2

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If by X*Y you mean it's an exponential digression (y= ab*X), I have to disagree.

What meant by X=Y is that this probably looks more like a linear regression than exponential (if you have statistics background, then to be more precise, this is very likely polynomial regression, but with linear Indepent values in its majority.) At least that's how most perfomance indexes work, and i dont see a pattern of exponentialism on this sample

Generally in econometrics Y is always the dependent variable, I honestly dont think you can multiple the the dependent variable (Y) with the indepent one (X) expect in very very VERY special cases

Good stuff. Where does Godchaux rank on the graph bc he's not a good DT

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Is this really a model or is it just a representation of two independent variables without any suggestion one affects the other? I think they're just on the same graph for convenience.

I think this is correct. They are somewhat related, in that if a player is an effective pass rusher they will be more frequently double-teamed, so the two variables likely are correlated. Best spot for a player is obviously upper right quadrant.

The more mysterious cases are the players that are frequently double teamed but have little pass rush impact. That could be because they aren't good at rushing the passer (Poe last year) or because the double team renders them ineffective. And sometimes it's just a scheme thing - nose tackles are often double teamed even though they don't often create pressure on the passer. A win for them is holding their ground and not getting pushed off their spot.

For Barmore, he is very frequently double teamed and has some modest success rushing the passer. I suspect it's mostly a scheme thing with him (Butler was similar last year).

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Is this really a model or is it just a representation of two independent variables without any suggestion one affects the other? I think they're just on the same graph for convenience.

I agree.

My (X*Y)+X was a way to quantify the points on the graph into a ranked list so the highest value in the list would be the most valuable player on the graph. I was not implying anything exponential since they are two independent variables.

 

[jah]

I agree.

My (X*Y)+X was a way to quantify the points on the graph into a ranked list so the highest value in the list would be the most valuable player on the graph. I was not implying anything exponential since they are two independent variables.

I see what you mean, that could be interesting to look at.

 

[Ring 6]

No, they haven't been good. Maybe above average, but not stellar. The numbers in aggregate look great, sure, but it's against sub-par competition. In must-have situations, they're not stopping the run well enough. Against the pass, Judon has been excellent. Who else is succeeding at rushing the passer right now, however? Barmore shows promise, but he has a ways to go to turn that into production.

Believe it or not, I'm about as big of a homer as anyone on here. I want the team to do well. I cheer for everyone to succeed. Right now, however, we need the interior DL to step up if we want to be a serious playoff contender. I still believe we can secure a wildcard spot, but how far we go will depend on the DL (and OL) not falling apart. The front seven can improve -- and I think they will -- but right now they're not doing a solid enough job holding their gaps and disengaging from blocks.

Believe it or not, I'm about as big of a homer as anyone on here. I want the team to do well. I cheer for everyone to succeed. Right now, however, we need the interior DL to step up if we want to be a serious playoff contender. I still believe we can secure a wildcard spot, but how far we go will depend on the DL (and OL) not falling apart. The front seven can improve -- and I think they will -- but right now they're not doing a solid enough job holding their gaps and disengaging from blocks.

The pass defense did 4th in the NFL.
They allow less than 60% complete and an 81 passer rating. They are too 10 in sacks and 5th in sack %.

The defense overall is also 5th in points allowed and yards allowed and 11th in turnovers.
That is the definition of good.