Content Post another late night rant

[moosekill]

Tom Brady without BB quite possibly never plays a down in the NFL. And if he gets a chance, it's on a short leash, and if he's on a lesser team than those early Patriots, he's probably a journeyman.

I have said this before. Very very big chance Brady would never have made an nfl team if Bill hadn't grabbed him.

We had the greatest coach in the nfl and the greatest qb in the NFL. Together they won 6 superbowls. We are pretty damn lucky to have been part of that . Trying to argue that a qb is more valuable than a coach or vise versa is foolish.

 

[1960Pats]

Yup Brees one won too

There go those goalposts again.

 

[1960Pats]

Here is an interesting take on BB the coach. What if BB coached the other team in all the Super Bowls the Patriots were in. Atlanta, LA, St. Louis, Seattle were distinct wins.

We don't know that. Nobody does. What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years but as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

 

[holyredeemer]

We don't know that. Nobody does. What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years and as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

To be fair, Arians is a clown. But, dude has a track record of being a pretty solid coach. Not sure why folks would think too negatively on him. He has led a team to a SB before Brady.

It still blows my mind that people thought Brady was going to FL to wither and die. That team was pretty damn stacked before he got that there. You add the GOAT QB and oh boy. A great player will always make the biggest difference on the field, but a great coach creates the culture and builds the team. So, it’s hard to say. If Brady was surrounded by **** talent in TB last year, I guarantee he wouldn’t have won the SB. Same with Bill, if he had his team stacked with talent right now, doubt Brady would’ve made much of a difference. Plenty of teams make it to the SB every year without him.

 

[1960Pats]

I have said this before. Very very big chance Brady would never have made an nfl team if Bill hadn't grabbed him.

We had the greatest coach in the nfl and the greatest qb in the NFL. Together they won 6 superbowls. We are pretty damn lucky to have been part of that . Trying to argue that a qb is more valuable than a coach or vise versa is foolish.

Sorry, but the idea that Brady wouldn't have made an NYFL team without Bill is the worst take I've ever seen here. And choosing Bill over Tom is a very close second.

 

[50-yard-line]

We don't know that. Nobody does. What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years but as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

Then why did he go 10 years (9 healthy) here without an SB win?

It's a simple question.

 

[1960Pats]

To be fair, Arians is a clown. But, dude has a track record of being a pretty solid coach. Not sure why folks would think too negatively on him. He has led a team to a SB before Brady.

It still blows my mind that people thought Brady was going to FL to wither and die. That team was pretty damn stacked before he got that there. You add the GOAT QB and oh boy. A great player will always make the biggest difference on the field, but a great coach creates the culture and builds the team. So, it’s hard to say. If Brady was surrounded by **** talent in TB last year, I guarantee he wouldn’t have won the SB. Same with Bill, if he had his team stacked with talent right now, doubt Brady would’ve made much of a difference. Plenty of teams make it to the SB every year without him.

I exaggerated when I said that everyone thought that the TB coaches were clowns, but there were definitely plenty of posters who did.

Teams do make it to the SB without Brady, but not many and not every year. His record of 11 SBs with 7 wins in 20 years is incredible and no player or coach, besides Tom or Bill will ever come close to that.

 

[50-yard-line]

Sorry, but the idea that Brady wouldn't have made an NYFL team without Bill is the worst take I've ever seen here. And choosing Bill over Tom is a very close second.

Why is that a bad take? How many QBs in the last 2 decades drafted so low ever got a chance? And of the very few who did, which were on teams that had a chance to win?

Is this really "choosing Bill over Tom"? because that, to me, is a stupid take either way. We got blessed with the perfect storm and wound up playing in contention for longer than any team in NFL history, even before the salary cap.

Perfect storm. GOAT coaching and philosophy combined with the perfect GOAT player to execute it.

My business, too, is incredibly competitive - literally thousands vying for that golden ring. The window is TINY, the circumstances reliant on more than talent - particularly when said talent is subjective. I know writers who should be NYT bestsellers, repeatedly, and they're supporting themselves as waiters or whatever while they try to find a few minutes each day to cobble together something, anything, that might give them another chance.

Brady wasn't a freak athlete. He wasn't a 265 4.4 guy, of a mountainous tackle, or a 7+ foot center, or a 105mph closer. His super powers took years to develop, and more still to perfect.

If Brady got drafted by, say, the Colts and Peyton stays healthy, he spends a couple of years (if he's lucky) as a back-up and is out of the league. If he doesn't get on the field other than the occasional kneel though his rookie contract, other teams would draft their backups and projects (guys with "higher ceilings or more athleticism, likely) and his career is over. His college coaches didn't see it, clearly, and so he almost went undrafted.

So it's not just that he was drafted by BB, but that he was drafted by a coach(es) who saw something AND got the lucky break in just the right situation to take advantage of it.

Perfect storm, and a blessing for Patriot fans.

Until, of course, the controversy-craving Boston media decided to make it all into another ridiculous drama for people to fight over. Lost is the art of simple gratitude.

 

[venecol]

Why is that a bad take? How many QBs in the last 2 decades drafted so low ever got a chance? And of the very few who did, which were on teams that had a chance to win?

Is this really "choosing Bill over Tom"? because that, to me, is a stupid take either way. We got blessed with the perfect storm and wound up playing in contention for longer than any team in NFL history, even before the salary cap.

Perfect storm. GOAT coaching and philosophy combined with the perfect GOAT player to execute it.

My business, too, is incredibly competitive - literally thousands vying for that golden ring. The window is TINY, the circumstances reliant on more than talent - particularly when said talent is subjective. I know writers who should be NYT bestsellers, repeatedly, and they're supporting themselves as waiters or whatever while they try to find a few minutes each day to cobble together something, anything, that might give them another chance.

Brady wasn't a freak athlete. He wasn't a 265 4.4 guy, of a mountainous tackle, or a 7+ foot center, or a 105mph closer. His super powers took years to develop, and more still to perfect.

If Brady got drafted by, say, the Colts and Peyton stays healthy, he spends a couple of years (if he's lucky) as a back-up and is out of the league. If he doesn't get on the field other than the occasional kneel though his rookie contract, other teams would draft their backups and projects (guys with "higher ceilings or more athleticism, likely) and his career is over. His college coaches didn't see it, clearly, and so he almost went undrafted.

So it's not just that he was drafted by BB, but that he was drafted by a coach(es) who saw something AND got the lucky break in just the right situation to take advantage of it.

Perfect storm, and a blessing for Patriot fans.

Until, of course, the controversy-craving Boston media decided to make it all into another ridiculous drama for people to fight over. Lost is the art of simple gratitude.

That's a lot of what ifs but continuing down that line, there's no guarantee Bill survives past 2002 without Brady either.

Or are you the guy that called WEEI? Nah, it was MAC10.

 

[condon84]

Then why did he go 10 years (9 healthy) here without an SB win?

It's a simple question.

Bill was sabotaging Brady.




Did I do that right?

 

[1960Pats]

Then why did he go 10 years (9 healthy) here without an SB win?

It's a simple question.

It may be a simple question to you but it has absolutely nothing to do with this statement;

What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years but as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

If I had to answer the question of why Tom went 9 years without a SB win I'd say there were numerous factors, not just Tom.

 

[Pats1971]

Why is that a bad take? How many QBs in the last 2 decades drafted so low ever got a chance? And of the very few who did, which were on teams that had a chance to win?

Is this really "choosing Bill over Tom"? because that, to me, is a stupid take either way. We got blessed with the perfect storm and wound up playing in contention for longer than any team in NFL history, even before the salary cap.

Perfect storm. GOAT coaching and philosophy combined with the perfect GOAT player to execute it.

My business, too, is incredibly competitive - literally thousands vying for that golden ring. The window is TINY, the circumstances reliant on more than talent - particularly when said talent is subjective. I know writers who should be NYT bestsellers, repeatedly, and they're supporting themselves as waiters or whatever while they try to find a few minutes each day to cobble together something, anything, that might give them another chance.

Brady wasn't a freak athlete. He wasn't a 265 4.4 guy, of a mountainous tackle, or a 7+ foot center, or a 105mph closer. His super powers took years to develop, and more still to perfect.

If Brady got drafted by, say, the Colts and Peyton stays healthy, he spends a couple of years (if he's lucky) as a back-up and is out of the league. If he doesn't get on the field other than the occasional kneel though his rookie contract, other teams would draft their backups and projects (guys with "higher ceilings or more athleticism, likely) and his career is over. His college coaches didn't see it, clearly, and so he almost went undrafted.

So it's not just that he was drafted by BB, but that he was drafted by a coach(es) who saw something AND got the lucky break in just the right situation to take advantage of it.

Perfect storm, and a blessing for Patriot fans.

Until, of course, the controversy-craving Boston media decided to make it all into another ridiculous drama for people to fight over. Lost is the art of simple gratitude.

Ok, lets not pretend that the Patriots in 2000 was some QB paradise. They were bad, Brady earned the starting role, it was not given to him. Brady came in because someone got hurt, he had one chance to make it, if he played bad and the team kept losing, he would have went back to the bench, that didnt happen. Does Bill have some track record of producing hall of fame QBs? No. Bill saw something in Brady because Brady had something. If brady didnt have something he would not have become what he became. To say a coach made a QB because he was able to see, oh...we win with him and dont win without him, as some amazing insight, it isnt. As you said, a lot of low drafted QB's dont make it, because they do not excel when they get that one chance. brady did.He was handed nothing, he earned everything he got, and he did it with the one chance he had.

 

[50-yard-line]

That's a lot of what ifs but continuing down that line, there's no guarantee Bill survives past 2002 without Brady either.

Or are you the guy that called WEEI? Nah, it was MAC10.

Very true that BB's career might have gone down the tubes.

And no, I don't call into the anger porn stations, thanks.

 

[Pats1971]

It may be a simple question to you but it has absolutely nothing to do with this statement;

What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years but as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

If I had to answer the question of why Tom went 9 years without a SB win I'd say there were numerous factors, not just Tom.

Its the spoiled fan mantra. Hey thanks for winning 6 superbowls, why didnt you win 12. Hey Montana those 4 superbowls are great, but you played 14 years why didnt you win in those 10 years?

 

[venecol]

Bill was sabotaging Brady.




Did I do that right?

Yes, that was perfect.

Every time I see your posts it makes me think of Trojans and how they'd break on me.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

There go those goalposts again.

Yup vinateri won a bunch

 

[1960Pats]

Why is that a bad take? How many QBs in the last 2 decades drafted so low ever got a chance? And of the very few who did, which were on teams that had a chance to win?

Is this really "choosing Bill over Tom"? because that, to me, is a stupid take either way. We got blessed with the perfect storm and wound up playing in contention for longer than any team in NFL history, even before the salary cap.

Perfect storm. GOAT coaching and philosophy combined with the perfect GOAT player to execute it.

My business, too, is incredibly competitive - literally thousands vying for that golden ring. The window is TINY, the circumstances reliant on more than talent - particularly when said talent is subjective. I know writers who should be NYT bestsellers, repeatedly, and they're supporting themselves as waiters or whatever while they try to find a few minutes each day to cobble together something, anything, that might give them another chance.

Brady wasn't a freak athlete. He wasn't a 265 4.4 guy, of a mountainous tackle, or a 7+ foot center, or a 105mph closer. His super powers took years to develop, and more still to perfect.

If Brady got drafted by, say, the Colts and Peyton stays healthy, he spends a couple of years (if he's lucky) as a back-up and is out of the league. If he doesn't get on the field other than the occasional kneel though his rookie contract, other teams would draft their backups and projects (guys with "higher ceilings or more athleticism, likely) and his career is over. His college coaches didn't see it, clearly, and so he almost went undrafted.

So it's not just that he was drafted by BB, but that he was drafted by a coach(es) who saw something AND got the lucky break in just the right situation to take advantage of it.

Perfect storm, and a blessing for Patriot fans.

Until, of course, the controversy-craving Boston media decided to make it all into another ridiculous drama for people to fight over. Lost is the art of simple gratitude.

So you also feel that if Brady didn't get drafted by Bill he wouldn't have made a team? I can see that take at the time but not after watching Brady play for 20 years.

If you saw the post I responded to you'd see that I was responding to the poster who claimed that taking a QB over a coach is foolish.

I too know that it was a perfect storm to get the GOAT HC and the GOAT QB for 20 years. But Brady should have been able to finish his career here.

The next time I pay to see a coach will be the first. I like sports because of the players and that won't be changing. When I went to the Garden the watch Bill Russell I didn't notice Red.

Again with the dream scenarios and the what ifs, this time with Brady joining Indy. The facts are that Brady helped take this team to a SB win in his 2nd year and two more in his 4th and 5th, not years later.

Personally, I don't listen to or read the Boston media (though I do grab a Herald now and then) and I'm a Pats fan first and foremost. And I certainly don't feel like this is a fight.

My only negative about the Brady loss is that the Pats didn't have an option at QB when he left. That tells me that Tom caught them by surprise. Any thoughts on why that was?

 

[40yrpatsfan]

It may be a simple question to you but it has absolutely nothing to do with this statement;

What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years but as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

If I had to answer the question of why Tom went 9 years without a SB win I'd say there were numerous factors, not just Tom.

Having a top QB makes your team a contender, and having a strong "other 52" (a function of coaching & front office) also makes your team a contender. Injury luck also plays a huge role many seasons, and sometimes officiating luck. It takes all these things to win championships. We could have won 10x with some of that luck going our way. And Tampa right now could go on a 2-3 year run given their QB, other-52, fantastic front office work, and veteran coaching staff. They have the best offensive weapons I've seen in a long time, especially with Gronk looking & playing like he's 26.

 

[50-yard-line]

Ok, lets not pretend that the Patriots in 2000 was some QB paradise. They were bad, Brady earned the starting role, it was not given to him. Brady came in because someone got hurt, he had one chance to make it, if he played bad and the team kept losing, he would have went back to the bench, that didnt happen. Does Bill have some track record of producing hall of fame QBs? No. Bill saw something in Brady because Brady had something. If brady didnt have something he would not have become what he became. To say a coach made a QB because he was able to see, oh...we win with him and dont win without him, as some amazing insight, it isnt. As you said, a lot of low drafted QB's dont make it, because they do not excel when they get that one chance. brady did.He was handed nothing, he earned everything he got, and he did it with the one chance he had.

This post is a perfect example of a stilted prism through which to view the world.

Brady came in because someone got hurt - CHECK, exactly as I said...and he wouldn't have had that chance on the Colts with a healthy Manning, or on a bunch of other teams with healthy starting QBs. Guys get drafted at QB in later rounds to hold clipboards, and most go through their tenure of 1-4 years doing nothing but. And how many teams kept 4 QBs?

Of course, Brady didn't play bad when he got that chance, correct, but neither did he light the world on fire (how's Gardner Minishew's career going?), Don't give me this myth-making nonsense. Go look at the 2001 game logs:

https://www.footballdb.com/players/tom-brady-bradyto01/gamelogs/2001

You think he'd have lasted after the 4 int Denver game on any other team if the starting QB came back from injury? Really?

When you produce a HoF QB that lasts for 20 years, you probably don't have many other chances, you know? And several New England backups have had decent careers elsewhere.

And yes, he had something special, and as I said, he had coaches who SAW THAT SOMETHING. That, too, is never a guarantee. Michigan?

Of course Brady had something - I said that.

I didn't say the coach made the QB. Nor did I even hint that Brady didn't take full advantage of the opportunity he got. He's one of the great success stories of our time, and is spoken of next to guys like Jordan and Russell, correctly. But guess what? It took circumstances beyond Brady's control to even get that opportunity.

That's the beauty of it all, by the way, and not the criticism. Look at the razor edge between dynasty and meh. What happens if they don't call the tuck play in '01 and the Pats melt down in '02 as they did? What happens if Bledsoe's ready to come back after the Denver game? What happens if Bledsoe never gets hurt? Does BB really dump a healthy $100million QB? Does Kraft let him?

 

[PatsWSB47]

Then why did he go 10 years (9 healthy) here without an SB win?

It's a simple question.

Because its damn hard to win a superbowl. Dumb argument. He made a couple and made it to a number of AFC championship games. Any other future hall of fame quarterback not named Brady didnt win Superbowls for most if their careers. Montana didnt win Superbowls in what, 13 of his years?