Content Post another late night rant

[50-yard-line]

If Brady got drafted by, say, the Colts and Peyton stays healthy, he spends a couple of years (if he’s lucky) as a back-up and is out of the league.

Lol…yes, let’s choose the #1 team, out of 32, with the very best quarterback situation from 2000-04. I’m guessing that from that timeframe, 90% of teams either (a) had a non-elite starting quarterback who Brady may have surpassed, or (b) would have had an injury scenario where Brady would have had a chance to start and prove himself.

The Colts scenario is a laughable theoretical, just like, butwhaddddifff Brady got drafted by the Browns! because, hey, it makes a theoretical argument so much stronger when you choose the absolute worst case scenario.

The fact is, the Patriots were one of the worst situations, objectively, when Brady was drafted in 2000, and being behind Bledsoe in 2000 was about as bleak as it can get for starting QB aspirations. It’s not unreasonable at all to think Brady would have gotten his shot. Practices, preseason, mop-up time replacing the starter, starter gets benched, starter gets hurt, end of season chance…almost every backup gets a chance at some point and talent is rarely overlooked in the NFL. He had already moved up #4 to #2 in New England in one year.

It was the most obvious example. Teams that need QBs don't generally pick them in the late rounds, Tom Sr. Teams that take flyers near the end of the draft on a QB are typically pretty set in the position. Think he would have unseated McNabb? Hell, he was QB 4 to start with the Pats - how many teams would even carry 4?

Go look at the QB drafts - you'll see that, no, most QBs taken near the end don't ever get a chance, and if they do, it's on a short string. Brady's first few games weren't exactly world-beaters, leading up to a bad loss in Denver (3-2 record).

But still, you're so dug in defensively that you're not even paying attention to anything I'm actually saying here. The situation worked out for Brady, but it didn't have to. There's no magic gene that makes someone get that chance, or says that someone's talent, particularly as intangible as was Brady's - not overly athletic, not a plus arm coming out, not a great college career - he wasn't the GOAT coming out. Get out of here with that revisionist nonsense.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It was the most obvious example.

Teams that need QBs don't generally pick them in the late rounds, Tom Sr. Teams that take flyers near the end of the draft on a QB are typically pretty set in the position.

A load of crap…you’re making it up as you go along. Look at the 2000 draft. Starting in the fifth round, who picked QBs:

-Saints (Bulger)
-Browns (Wynn)
-Patriots (Brady)
-Washington (Husak)
-Chargers (Seider)
-49ers (Rattay)
-Broncos (Jackson)
-Bucs (Hamilton)

In other words, the opposite of what you claimed. Mainly crappy teams with shaky starting QB situations. In fact, the Patriots have easily the best QB situation (Bledsoe) of this group. I don’t see any of those teams with great QBs (Packers, Rams, Colts, Eagles) drafting anyone late.

Think he would have unseated McNabb? Hell, he was QB 4 to start with the Pats - how many teams would even carry 4?

Go look at the QB drafts - you'll see that, no, most QBs taken near the end don't ever get a chance, and if they do, it's on a short string. Brady's first few games weren't exactly world-beaters, leading up to a bad loss in Denver (3-2 record).

But still, you're so dug in defensively that you're not even paying attention to anything I'm actually saying here. The situation worked out for Brady, but it didn't have to. There's no magic gene that makes someone get that chance, or says that someone's talent, particularly as intangible as was Brady's - not overly athletic, not a plus arm coming out, not a great college career - he wasn't the GOAT coming out. Get out of here with that revisionist nonsense.

Most likely, Brady does exactly what he did in New England, which is bulk up, study film all day, show up at 5 am, and win over his teammates. Coaches note that he’s a lot better than his draft billing, as the Patriots staff did too. Whether it’s through injury, garbage time, or poor performance by the starter, at some point over four years, he gets his shot and proves to be, at a minimum, a solid NFL starter, after which a different path is taken, but he certainly gets his shot.

Or I could play this like you, with your Manning and McNabb scenarios,(arguably the two most solidly anchored starters in the league, and just say whaddiifffff he got drafted by the Ravens in 2000, outplayed Dilfer, and won a Super Bowl his rookie year. Or he got drafted by the Rams, and in 2001, Kurt Warner blew put his knee, so Brady took over and won it all by playing at a decent level. My scenarios are just as extreme as yours, where he basically doesn’t play a snap and somehow no one notices his development…not any coaches (OC, QB coach) who go to other teams, no opposing teams hearing chatter about a backup playing at a really high level in scrimmages, practice, preseason…he just goes unsigned after his rookie contract. Sure…exactly how the NFL works

 

[50-yard-line]

A load of crap…you’re making it up as you go along. Look at the 2000 draft. Starting in the fifth round, who picked QBs:

-Saints (Bulger)
-Browns (Wynn)
-Patriots (Brady)
-Washington (Husak)
-Chargers (Seider)
-49ers (Rattay)
-Broncos (Jackson)
-Bucs (Hamilton)

In other words, the opposite of what you claimed. Mainly crappy teams with shaky starting QB situations. In fact, the Patriots have easily the best QB situation (Bledsoe) of this group. I don’t see any of those teams with great QBs (Packers, Rams, Colts, Eagles) drafting anyone late.



Most likely, Brady does exactly what he did in New England, which is bulk up, study film all day, show up at 5 am, and win over his teammates. Coaches note that he’s a lot better than his draft billing, as the Patriots staff did too. Whether it’s through injury, garbage time, or poor performance by the starter, at some point over four years, he gets his shot and proves to be, at a minimum, a solid NFL starter, after which a different path is taken, but he certainly gets his shot.

Or I could play this like you, with your Manning and McNabb scenarios,(arguably the two most solidly anchored starters in the league, and just say whaddiifffff he got drafted by the Ravens in 2000, outplayed Dilfer, and won a Super Bowl his rookie year. Or he got drafted by the Rams, and in 2001, Kurt Warner blew put his knee, so Brady took over and won it all by playing at a decent level. My scenarios are just as extreme as yours, where he basically doesn’t play a snap and somehow no one notices his development…not any coaches (OC, QB coach) who go to other teams, no opposing teams hearing chatter about a backup playing at a really high level in scrimmages, practice, preseason…he just goes unsigned after his rookie contract. Sure…exactly how the NFL works

Yes, you could play what if?

Which is the whole f***ing point. Look at your list - the only one who got any chance at all was Rattay. Little things make big differences in someone's life. That's just reality. Inches, moments, circumstances...it all matters.

I seriously don't even know what your problem is with anything I wrote - not what your frothing Tom-love read, but what I wrote. You really want to hold some fantasy that Brady coming out was "cant' miss," go for it. I think you're out of your mind. Circumstance, being in the right place at the right time, and working his ass off for years refined him into the GOAT, not anything he showed prior. How many teams even kept 4 QBs? Even after 2001, he was the 22nd ranked QB, and his first few games were nothing special.

Also, if you think that's taking anything away from what Brady accomplished, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Duh. If Brady didnt get a chance then what kind of career would he have? What is the point if this epiphany?

 

[Pats1971]

It's not what I said, you illiterate meatball.

Going 10 years without winning an SB shows how hard it is - and also shows that as great as Brady was and is, it's a TEAM game. If BB left the Pats instead of Brady and took over KC, and won the SB, which he likely would have, that isn't a mark that he's greater than Brady (particularly is Brady remained in New England in the beginning of a rebuild).

Yeah he won 7 superbowls....only 2 other QB's won 4.....Bill didnt leave, Brady did and won a superbowl with a team that had not won a playoff game in 18 years. You say its a team game yet give more consideration to someone who does not even play? You also do not get that most valuable does not mean only valuable. Yes, Brady can walk onto a team and make that team a contender, he did and he has, twice. Its already been proven, there is no what if scenarios, its already happened. So you are arguing fantasy land stuff against reality.

 

[Pats1971]

Duh. If Brady didnt get a chance then what kind of career would he have? What is the point if this epiphany?

I have heard that **** since Brady came into the league....oh but what if he went to x team, then what. People act like the Patriots were rattling off superbowls and brady jumped on for the ride. The Patriots had 13 playoff wins in 40 years up to 2000. From 2001 to 2019, they had 33. He did not go to some amazing situation, he did not go somewhere that he would get chance after chance. He went to a team that didnt need him, he worked his ass off and took over and never let the job go and the entire franchise turned around. QB's can do that, some better than others.

 

[catent]

It may be a simple question to you but it has absolutely nothing to do with this statement;

What we DO know is that Bill never won a SB without Brady in 7 years but as soon as Brady was dumped he won one with coaches who everyone here said were clowns.

If I had to answer the question of why Tom went 9 years without a SB win I'd say there were numerous factors, not just Tom.

The irony of your quoted statement with your final paragraph is rich.

 

[50-yard-line]

Yeah he won 7 superbowls....only 2 other QB's won 4.....Bill didnt leave, Brady did and won a superbowl with a team that had not won a playoff game in 18 years. You say its a team game yet give more consideration to someone who does not even play? You also do not get that most valuable does not mean only valuable. Yes, Brady can walk onto a team and make that team a contender, he did and he has, twice. Its already been proven, there is no what if scenarios, its already happened. So you are arguing fantasy land stuff against reality.

Where am I giving MORE to someone who doesn't even play?

Did Brady pick Manning 4 times in '03, or Rothlesberger 3 times (and block adn runback a kick) in '04? You insult guys like Ty Law and McGinnest, truly.

Brady's the GOAT - I never hinted otherwise.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yes, you could play what if?

Which is the whole f***ing point. Look at your list - the only one who got any chance at all was Rattay. Little things make big differences in someone's life. That's just reality. Inches, moments, circumstances...it all matters.

I seriously don't even know what your problem is with anything I wrote - not what your frothing Tom-love read, but what I wrote. You really want to hold some fantasy that Brady coming out was "cant' miss," go for it. I think you're out of your mind. Circumstance, being in the right place at the right time, and working his ass off for years refined him into the GOAT, not anything he showed prior. How many teams even kept 4 QBs? Even after 2001, he was the 22nd ranked QB, and his first few games were nothing special.

Also, if you think that's taking anything away from what Brady accomplished, I don't know what to tell you.

I know that you’re not denigrating Brady. My issue is the reasoning around this hypothetical stuff. Your take is better than most of them, but I still strongly disagree with the thought process.

Brady went to Michigan, and after moving up the depth chart by his junior year, suddenly freshman Drew Henson, the #1 QB prospect in the country, became the 1A starter breathing down Brady’s neck; boosters pressured Carr to play Henson. Brady platooned both seasons despite being much better than Henson. That was cited as a major reason Brady dropped in the draft.

It would be easy to play the what-if game right here. If Henson chooses any other school, Brady is a much higher rated prospect.

But it doesn’t stop there. He gets drafted into the NFL in the late rounds, mainly due to the unlucky Henson situation, to a team that already has three quarterbacks, including a consensus top-5 franchise icon, and should he get a chance, he’s going to have to lead an offense with no pro bowl talent. The team was 5-13 and averaged 17 ppg in the games he was on the sidelines as a backup.

This is why the what-if game with Brady is absurd. He was dealt such a bad hand as it was, and he came out of it as the winner. So shifting to “What if he was drafted by the Colts or Eagles or Browns” seems to greatly miss the point. He was already in one of the most against-all-odds scenarios possible.

Between Henson sinking his draft value and then being drafted into what amounts to a worst case scenario due to the Patriots QB situation, the idea of theoretically raising the bar even higher seems like a bizarre idea.

Brady was going to make it. He wasn’t lucky. Inches didn’t decide this. It was going to happen. The only questions were when, where and how. We know this is hindsight, and that’s fine. Brady is one of the biggest outliers in sports history. His determination, confidence, and relentlessness is almost impossible to describe. He was always going to be great.

 

[catent]

The folks who answer “it’s really hard to win a Super Bowl and there are a lot of factors beyond the quarterback’s control” in response to the question “why didn’t Brady win a Super Bowl during a 10 year span”, are proving the fact that football is the ultimate team sport and no individual can ever singlehandedly consistently affect the outcome of games. Anyone would basically give the same answer to the question “why has so-and-so talented football player/coach/GM not yet won a Super Bowl or not won a Super Bowl in ‘x’ number of years”.

This is why giving exclusive credit to any individual - player, coach, or executive - for sustained success (in football in particular), is never fair. There are obviously relative levels of responsibility across a team, and quarterback, head coach, and general manager are pretty high on the list.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Then why did he go 10 years (9 healthy) here without an SB win?

It's a simple question.

Pretty easy. Aside from the biggest fluke catch in NFL history, it really came down to poor roster management and bad drafts from 2005-2009. During that time, the Pats had very little needs, but were ignored and more needs starting to show up which would rear its ugly in big games.

Had they whiffed on the 2010 draft, the drought goes longer than 10 years and Brady would’ve moved on sooner or Bill moves on from him.

 

[NormZauchin]

If you say so. But nobody else had a problem spotting it. Ill check with you from now on before I post anything.

Don't bother. My inbox is full.

 

[Pats2000]

If Brady got drafted by, say, the Colts and Peyton stays healthy, he spends a couple of years (if he’s lucky) as a back-up and is out of the league.

Lol…yes, let’s choose the #1 team, out of 32, with the very best quarterback situation from 2000-04. I’m guessing that from that timeframe, 90% of teams either (a) had a non-elite starting quarterback who Brady may have surpassed, or (b) would have had an injury scenario where Brady would have had a chance to start and prove himself.

The Colts scenario is a laughable theoretical, just like, butwhaddddifff Brady got drafted by the Browns! because, hey, it makes a theoretical argument so much stronger when you choose the absolute worst case scenario.

The fact is, the Patriots were one of the worst situations, objectively, when Brady was drafted in 2000, and being behind Bledsoe in 2000 was about as bleak as it can get for starting QB aspirations. It’s not unreasonable at all to think Brady would have gotten his shot. Practices, preseason, mop-up time replacing the starter, starter gets benched, starter gets hurt, end of season chance…almost every backup gets a chance at some point and talent is rarely overlooked in the NFL. He had already moved up #4 to #2 in New England in one year.

Which other coach do you think he would have had the same success tho?

BB took a guy who threw at least 1 ball into the dirt every game, had the highest number of opt outs and willed a team to 7 and 9.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Ok, so I'm listening to those pukes on the Felger and Mazz

Ken, I can literally think of a thousand better things to do with your life than that.

Don't waste your time.

Both of them state as fact the Patriots 'cheated'.

You gonna waste your time listening to people who insist the Earth is flat? Don't.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Which other coach do you think he would have had the same success tho?

BB took a guy who threw at least 1 ball into the dirt every game, had the highest number of opt outs and willed a team to 7 and 9.

Willed a team that Vegas projected to win 9+ games…to 7-9? How does one will a team to less wins than expected?

 

[Pats1971]

Which other coach do you think he would have had the same success tho?

BB took a guy who threw at least 1 ball into the dirt every game, had the highest number of opt outs and willed a team to 7 and 9.

7-9 is not good. lol I mean they went 12-4 the year before. 90 percent of the opt outs didnt even make this team. You mean MVP Cam? I guess everyone thinks he sucks now that he is gone, that seems to be the way with some fans.

 

[Pats1971]

Pretty easy. Aside from the biggest fluke catch in NFL history, it really came down to poor roster management and bad drafts from 2005-2009. During that time, the Pats had very little needs, but were ignored and more needs starting to show up which would rear its ugly in big games.

Had they whiffed on the 2010 draft, the drought goes longer than 10 years and Brady would’ve moved on sooner or Bill moves on from him.

I mean there was flat out some dredful things on offense for awhile. That 2006 receiving corp might have been the worst I have ever seen. First round draft pick backs were fizzle. We could not draft a player in the second round that would not bust out. Tavon Wilson? Remember that prize? 33rd overall pick, and he was projected as a 7th and guess what, he played like a 7th. Who was the DT they drafted in the first round that had no acl's left? Ras-I?

 

[Pats1971]

Willed a team that Vegas projected to win 9+ games…to 7-9? How does one will a team to less wins than expected?

Yeah, a team that had not had a losing record since 2000 and he willed them to 7-9. lol

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yeah, a team that had not had a losing record since 2000 and he willed them to 7-9. lol

Then he brings up Cam’s poor play as something Bill had to work around. Bill should give that GM an earful, especially after re-signing him.

 

[Pats2000]

7-9 is not good. lol I mean they went 12-4 the year before. 90 percent of the opt outs didnt even make this team. You mean MVP Cam? I guess everyone thinks he sucks now that he is gone, that seems to be the way with some fans.

I thought he sucked when we signed him. I was holding out hope for Stidham.

Chung, Cannon. And Hightower were not inconsequential opt outs.