Have we overrated the Patriots defense more specifically the front 7?

[MrTibbs]

Has anyone watched Hightower on the Pats vs. Phins week 1 highlight film? Sheesh, he looks like he's playing with cement shoes on. I hope it's him getting back in game shape but the front 7 is looking far from impressive at this point and also slow. Barmore even during double teams was most times collapsing the pocket. Uche looks like he has the speed of a safety flying around out there. Van Noy looked a bit hesitant. Bentley out of position on some plays being in the exact area as another LB. Judon came as advertised...looks great. Wise, Godchaux, Guy and the rest were getting absolutely ZERO push on short yardage runs losing their 1 on 1 matchups. Do you think the defense is way overhyped? Label me unimpressed so far. How many pressures did the defense create vs. Tua? Chime in please.

 

[reflexblue]

Maybe, but the defense doesn't usually jell until mid october, so i'm not worried about it yet.

 

[Pape]

Guilty as charged. There was a lot of excitement due bringing in Judon and getting High back... I personally forgot to temper that excitement by forgetting about Bentley, forgetting van noy lost a step last year etals

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Has anyone watched Hightower on the Pats vs. Phins week 1 highlight film? Sheesh, he looks like he's playing with cement shoes on. I hope it's him getting back in game shape but the front 7 is looking far from impressive at this point and also slow.

Gronk took a year off last year and looked a shell of himself for much of the season. He then looked like the old Gronk just in time for the Bucs super bowl run.

 

[Uptown]

After 1 game?..

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I think Hightower will be fine, maybe not like in his prime but will help. I think I remember him looking a little slow at the beginning of 2018 after missing 2017 too and was making plays within a few weeks. A year off at this level is alot to come back from especially at that age.

 

[Deus Irae]

This front seven was a big unknown. I don't think it's become a known quantity after last week. But there are questions that many chose to either minimize or ignore, and only time will tell how those questions get answered.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Has anyone watched Hightower on the Pats vs. Phins week 1 highlight film? Sheesh, he looks like he's playing with cement shoes on. I hope it's him getting back in game shape but the front 7 is looking far from impressive at this point and also slow. Barmore even during double teams was most times collapsing the pocket. Uche looks like he has the speed of a safety flying around out there. Van Noy looked a bit hesitant. Bentley out of position on some plays being in the exact area as another LB. Judon came as advertised...looks great. Wise, Godchaux, Guy and the rest were getting absolutely ZERO push on short yardage runs losing their 1 on 1 matchups. Do you think the defense is way overhyped? Label me unimpressed so far. How many pressures did the defense create vs. Tua? Chime in please.

I'd pump the brakes.

The D gave up 17 points and 200 yards passing and Gaskin averaged 3.7 yards. They created a turnover and the RBs fumbled, in particular Harris, since Stevenson's wasn't really a fumble. If you would tell me this D would give up 17-20 points weekly all year, I'd like those odds with what I think Mac and this offense will start to do production wise.

I love Lawrence Guy and think he's one of the very best 3-4 DEs in the game, but I agree he had a mysteriously sluggish start along Hightower and Godchaux. Hightower looking a tad off isn't a shock.

But, that said, it's Week 1. BBs teams never come out hot, other than maybe 2007. Also, it could be the playcalling wasn't as great as it could have been. There's tons of reasons.

I thought it was odd Henry Anderson didn't really play. I thought that was sneaky good signing because he's a prototypical 3-4 DE on that weakside. Not super thick, but long and gangly. He and Judon should be a problem from a rush and run defense standpoint, but BB didn't use him. I sort of expected a classic 3-4 look more than what I saw and trying to make sure the running didn't do anything and Tua couldn't run wide when he panicked. I actually think the coaches didn't have their best game with them. I don't think it's a player thing. Sometimes you just line up and go instead of constantly using differing packages to try get match ups or trick the other team. Miami's OL is not good, so yeah, I expected a bit more, but they weren't bad by any stretch. BB also likes to tinker early in the season.

I look for improvement from wherever they start, so let's hope we see it vs the Jets a bunch and then they can bring it into a tougher opponent and do it again vs NOs, and I think they will. Some of the comments I read today, you can tell BB is on their behinds, and good for the D for knowing it's not quite up to snuff yet.

But, the depth and talent is there. CB has been weakened by Gilmore's absence, but I think they have the best LBs (on paper) in the conference, including how they use Phillips and Dugger, and a good Def Line, certainly better than last year. Godchaux came recommended by Andrews, Thuney, Mason. I trust their opinion.

Also, Barmore looked good as rookie. He'll only improve.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Guilty as charged. There was a lot of excitement due bringing in Judon and getting High back... I personally forgot to temper that excitement by forgetting about Bentley, forgetting van noy lost a step last year etals

Van Noy didn't lose a step. His production last year mirrored anything he's done here in the past. He was cut because Chris Grier is a moron managing the cap.

 

[Pape]

Van Noy didn't lose a step. His production last year mirrored anything he's done here in the past. He was cut because Chris Grier is a moron managing the cap.

hope so... looks slower to me though... ymmv

 

[TheRainMaker]

Van Noy didn't lose a step. His production last year mirrored anything he's done here in the past. He was cut because Chris Grier is a moron managing the cap.

He was actually pretty bad with Miami last year. He gets exposed big time when he gets isolated on RB’s.

 

[TheRainMaker]

D-line had questions all offseason. Not many people here cared for Godchaux. Bill has had a hard time finding a Wilfork replacement. Line has been weak since 2018. In fact, I could make a case it’s been weak since Wilfork left. Barmore was the first step in the right direction. He may not be a run stuffer, but a disruptor inside.

Guy is what he is.

Wise has his moments, but they are few and far between.

HT losing a step doesn’t shock me but it’s better than not having him.

Uche will be as effective as the line holds up and forces teams into obvious passing downs. Not a full time player but a stronger, faster version of TBC right now.

Judon was a steal.

Anybody is an upgrade over John Simon. Yeesh! Van Noy is an upgrade setting the edge, but awful in coverage.

I don’t care for Bentley.

 

[jah]

He was actually pretty bad with Miami last year. He gets exposed big time when he gets isolated on RB’s.

That was always the case with him. Hightower too, for that matter. We've just been better about using them correctly.

 

[venecol]

Wrong Thread

 

[BobDigital]

I think it is more people underestimating the absence of Gilmore. Can we get by without him? Yes. But does an all pro CB make a huge difference? Absolutely. Depth is good, but stars are required. Once we have him back we can go to more man-on-man and then we get our pass rushing advantage back. Having Gilmore basically allows you to go 5v4/6v5 on the back end and allows you an extra rusher to the passer.

 

[BlueThunder]

Hmmm...Let's hope the Pats Defense + Offense jells faster than other team's ......just sayin

 

[Hyped]

A lot of it had to do with Tua releasing the ball so fast on his 1st read and those slant routes out of the RPO.

Very hard to stop and I think we did a very good job outside of those two drives at the start of both halves.

 

[PP2]

Has anyone watched Hightower on the Pats vs. Phins week 1 highlight film? Sheesh, he looks like he's playing with cement shoes on. I hope it's him getting back in game shape but the front 7 is looking far from impressive at this point and also slow. Barmore even during double teams was most times collapsing the pocket. Uche looks like he has the speed of a safety flying around out there. Van Noy looked a bit hesitant. Bentley out of position on some plays being in the exact area as another LB. Judon came as advertised...looks great. Wise, Godchaux, Guy and the rest were getting absolutely ZERO push on short yardage runs losing their 1 on 1 matchups. Do you think the defense is way overhyped? Label me unimpressed so far. How many pressures did the defense create vs. Tua? Chime in please.

Cut Hightower some slack.. it was his first game in over a year. He opted out last season.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

He was actually pretty bad with Miami last year. He gets exposed big time when he gets isolated on RB’s.

So did Vrabel and Ninkovich. That's not a coverage LB spot. Those guys weren't good at that.

In fact, Nink was so raw at that kind of a thing, NE ran a 4-3 in 2011, some of the time if not most. They got burned by Tebow in Denver and went to the 3-4 in the second half to contain that, but they were a 4-3 team. No covering needed out of a 4-3 for the OLB because he's a DE. Not saying it never would happen, but it's not a main function of a 4-3 DE.

Setting a strong side edge is. That's the priority, IMO, to isolate the opponent so that their run game is essentially not a help to the QB by the 2nd half. That's what this D Line needs to focus on. Some good old school 3-4 run D. Don't turn it over, create a turnover and you probably win with a good edge.

Also, I don't want my 3-4 OLBs that concerned with covering the RBs at least past the flat, unless you want to use Dugger more as Big Dime guy and use him on the weakside in a McClellin/Flowers role. Move him all over the line if there is a hint the ball is going to the RB on a play that looks like a pass to the RB kinda play. Playcalling is as important as scheme and talent as well.

I think BB is not using the Phillips/Dugger thing better, or at least it came off underused in Game 1. Mix in some zone and have those 2 guys moving around a lot more.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

I think it is more people underestimating the absence of Gilmore. Can we get by without him? Yes. But does an all pro CB make a huge difference? Absolutely. Depth is good, but stars are required. Once we have him back we can go to more man-on-man and then we get our pass rushing advantage back. Having Gilmore basically allows you to go 5v4/6v5 on the back end and allows you an extra rusher to the passer.

They need to play more zone but do a better job disguising it and I think they can.