Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[Uptown]

SB 56..

 

[Uptown]

 

[DaBruinz]

May have to lay $500 on the Pats

 

[bormio]

May have to lay $500 on the Pats

Chargers at +3000 might be a bet

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

The existing correlation is between the rookie qb play and the excitement for the upcoming season. I can’t wait

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This needs to be a thread in itself, really.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

QB Questions & Thoughts - What's the difference in ceiling between Cam & Mac? That has to be the question or top 2-3 in Foxboro rn. I'm not sure I see a significant gap here given everything we've seen. And this is coming from a life long Cam fan. I have to be objective though.
When you consider the collective, Mac's might be slightly higher in this offense, even this year as a baby.

Why? Bc this offense values and thrives off quick / mental processing, a quick release & the ability to change week to week.

As a scout, amateur, even someone that doesn't care about the draft. You want to see what translates from college and what doesn't. What's he good at? His strengths and flaws.

Fortunately Mac's strengths have been on display. We've seen him kill plays, overcome a little adversity - from starting in his own end, sometimes on purpose like Bill not challenging a call with clear intent to see how Mac would do - complete to Wilkerson the next play, moving 2nd/3rd level defenders with eye/shoulder fakes. He's got the ball out quicker than any QB on the team. He also has a lot of experience with RPO and can easily eat up unaccounted for yards the defense always gives up. So while he certainly isn't a "running QB", he can take 7-10 yards on a play here and there to really frustrate a defense.

So the mental traits you want to see are there. He's decisive and getting the ball out quick. And is more than comfortable running RPO & with quick /short stuff. That made up more than half his production in college. He's extremely comfortable running that scheme and I actually hope we keep at least to some degree. The "good" is showing up.

I wrote about Mac's arm talent being one of his bigger assets despite the "arm strength" concerns and we see the difference between the two. I describe arm talent as Accuracy + Velocity + Touch + Placement. Think of a target standing there with his arms spread ... Accuracy is hitting the general target area, Velocity is the spin, mph while the ball is air. Recently Mac's came into question. It's not about how far, the velocity is much more important. Why? Bc it allows you to truly threaten every part of the field while it's defended. For example 3 & long, defenses are giving up yards, giving up the underneath/shallow cross area. Making you fit the ball in between defenders - tight window passes, far hash - far out ... Arm strength isn't just something cool to talk about, it matters a lot. How/Who you attack & when, it's a big factor. Touch is the ability to layer it in between defenders, a change up to a fast ball. You see the nose drop down at the end of deep stuff. Placement is the father of accuracy. Lead shoulder on crossing route if no one is in front of you. Low / away if they are. Fortunately Mac has it all except top tier velocity along with really good anticipation, maybe his best asset. Lastly regarding his velocity. On platform - on balance - space to work and this hardly ever shows up. And is something easily fixable. Obviously the NFL is going to challenge his spot, make him move but lucky for us we have a great OL.

A few passes stick out. He led Meyers & Harry down and away on a couple passes to protect them. The one to Meyers was the incompletion that would have counted I believe. The touch and placement on a few of his deep passes that weren't caught but were beautiful throws. His arm certainly isn't holding him back.

Cam is much more of a stick n shoot passer. Big fastball. He sees it open and he's putting it on you fast. Stidham was the same way in college. Not the worst thing in the world it's limiting but can be an effective style.

These aren't the only factors in play here, obviously. But when your 15th overall pick is showing you exactly why you picked him you don't want put that on hold for a year.

So again I'll ask, how big is the difference in ceiling, this year between the Mac & Cam?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This needs to be a thread in itself, really.

Coaches aren't worried about their jobs in Aug but you have 1000 guys that might never see a football field up close & personal again that are killing themselves for a spot.

It's a weird time when coaches aren't trying to win but purposely putting guys in different situations to see different outcomes.

And then there's the rush to judgement over what we see. Just a reminder ... Last year, this time, Bisi Johnson was ahead of Justin Jefferson on the depth chart. Jefferson went on to have a top 3 rookie year, comparable to Randy Moss. Preseason means next to nothing.

 

[Brotherblues]

Coaches aren't worried about their jobs in Aug but you have 1000 guys that might never see a football field up close & personal again that are killing themselves for a spot.

It's a weird time when coaches aren't trying to win but purposely putting guys in different situations to see different outcomes.

And then there's the rush to judgement over what we see. Just a reminder ... Last year, this time, Bisi Johnson was ahead of Justin Jefferson on the depth chart. Jefferson went on to have a top 3 rookie year, comparable to Randy Moss. Preseason means next to nothing.

I'd counter preseason means a lot when people know what to look for. If you got your average pundit looking at stats or pretending to be a scout then yeah, it's meaningless. If you got a proper scout or coach or talent evaluator who can spot the nuances of what a guy is doing on the field... then I say it means a ton.

 

[Brotherblues]

So again I'll ask, how big is the difference in ceiling, this year between the Mac & Cam?

My totally amateurish opinion is Cam might be worth 1 more win in September and October. After that, assuming Mac develops as expected, it's either a wash or the edge goes to Mac from November onwards. So to me it'd be a no brainer to just start Mac week 1, since (according to my own personal logic anyway) it'd give us a better chance to win games down the stretch and in the playoffs.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'd counter preseason means a lot when people know what to look for. If you got your average pundit looking at stats or pretending to be a scout then yeah, it's meaningless. If you got a proper scout or coach or talent evaluator who can spot the nuances of what a guy is doing on the field... then I say it means a ton.

Yes & no. I should have worded it different.

Players trying to make a team, sure. Any time games are played you're scouting players or seeing if teams are trying something new.

But at the same time 90% of these rosters are made up. The fringe players you're scouting on the other side in Aug (think about it, Aug), you might see next year but also have the guys on you're practice squad. That stuff matters though. Obviously checking out new players, QB's. Definitely.

There's also a lot that doesn't matter. Again most of the depth charts were almost 100% made up last week. Some teams might be trying something new but others aren't showing anything, are injured, some players won't see a snap.

It's a weird dichotomy I suppose. Again coaches care and want to win but no one is putting together a game plan, 100% designed to win. Not that they're trying to lose but there's a lot of experimentation going on. Putting your guys in specific situations. Practice all-stars that kill but disappear in two weeks.

It's fun, again kind of a fine line I suppose.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

My totally amateurish opinion is Cam might be worth 1 more win in September and October. After that, assuming Mac develops as expected, it's either a wash or the edge goes to Mac from November onwards. So to me it'd be a no brainer to just start Mac week 1, since (according to my own personal logic anyway) it'd give us a better chance to win games down the stretch and in the playoffs.

From everything I've seen & heard Mac is very close. Neither are running away or lapping the other one but Mac looks the part in terms of what we want from the position and is actually better in a few areas (getting the ball out/release, touch, I'd argue pocket movement as well) Whether you look at them, just today, no past history or include it. Mac has looked a little better imo.

I'm not holding him back simply to do it. Everyone that's objective and knows this team, understands Bill's preference. He prefers vets, he wants to know what he's getting / no surprises, don't turn the ball over etc

At the same time it's more than obvious Mac is being "fast-tracked" by Josh & others. This has been clear to me since we picked him, this was a Josh pick. They haven't just worked together, Josh seems invested imo.


Also the team is perfectly set up for Mac. Obviously QB's have different needs, strengths, concerns etc. He needs a tight relationship with his OC to start out. Him & Sark had a nice relationship. You can tell there's a mutual respect there. Whether you like Josh or not, he's established. Definitely has his faults but he's made a lot of **** work that others couldn't. Albeit with Brady & Brady > Bill, Josh but JMD made it work and maximized a lot of strengths here. So he has a decent guy to lean on.

He has multiple security blankets that are perfect for his field distribution. Mac was probably the best, easy top 3 QB in terms of targeting/hitting the MOF. Henry, Smith, Meyers & co all should feast there. I love how Bourne works the sidelines, seemed pretty crisp at the top of his routes. Agholor is who he is but he certainly can make big plays. Is versatile, you can play him inside/out. Love his potential to stretch the field from the slot when we're in 12 personnel.

Of course the OL/Running game.

Injuries are the only thing that would hold me back. I wouldn't start Jones on any team. He needs a lot of help, like all QB's, yes but I wouldn't start him if I had a lame a shakey OC, shakey OL or no targets. I wouldn't just throw him in the water no matter what.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Interesting that according to Ivan Fears, Stevenson failed his conditioning test. ("Hard to say what they did at his school, but it sure seemed like he wasn’t ready for the NFL at that time when he got in here.")

You know who else failed once? LeGarrette Blount.

Think you could pass any of the Patriots’ conditioning tests? - The Boston Globe

The annual training camp conditioning test is a series of runs players must complete under certain times.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Newton as a qb is beyond horrible!

but he has decent trade value at a very desirable position. maybe an opportunity for bb?

every snap newton takes, is one less snap for Jones.

while I do not think jones is ready now, there is no doubt that he will be very soon, especially if he can get more reps!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Trading back is one the go-to strategies for the draft. Generally I'd want more picks, especially 2nd & 3rd's but once and a while I'm all about trading up.

Specifically into the 11-20, range. A lot depends on your situation, where you're at during a specific time. It's never a bad thing to go get game changers though. Depth is enormous in the league but how many 5th, 6th, 7th round picks are really making a difference? I'm not saying depth or ST don't matter but the reality is most of those prospects aren't making the team let alone a difference. The draft is essentially 4 rounds. I want as many top 60-75 picks as I can get.



There's a lot of hindsight with the draft so unless you're on record a lot is useless. Not easy getting real info or discussion. I'm not necessarily advocating for or against. Just asking questions. Personally I'd rather have as many second and third-round picks but looking at recent boards I have to wonder what one or two of these guys would have done for us.

Ultimately you just have to hit on your early picks. It's great to have 12 picks but how many spots are really open? What's the % say the impact or even chance of making a team is for guys drafted 5th-7th.

Again a lot depends of your situation but if I'm a team with an established QB, consistent playoff team I really would think about adding a piece to put us over the top.

Basically think about who we got with our 1st & 2nd and if you'd rather have someone between 11-20 range. Again just asking questions.

 

[farn]

The League never ceases to amaze. Specifically, the League’s obsession with promoting the POS T Hill…. So they doing the countdown. Watson (who’s facing his own issues) is treated as toxic. Hill, a few notches higher on the list, is deified.

To me, Hill is one of a handful of players I’d cheer if he got hurt. Is that classy of me ? No. But he is in the .01% of the ultimate worst humanity has to offer.