OT: Fields looked really good in preseason debut

[Deus Irae]

I guess Waston had no shot against the defending SB champion Patriots in his 3rd NFL game.

Awesome. Let's go to outliers. That's the way to go!

So the NFL should throw the towel and give 17 wins to the Bucs because if Drew Bress, Rodgers and Mahomes couldn’t beat them LAST year, nobody can this year.

No. But fans and analysts should use their heads instead of their hearts. You're not doing that.


Cam Newton was **** last year, and Jones is neck-and-neck with him right now.

 

[amfootball]

I guess Waston had no shot against the defending SB champion Patriots in his 3rd NFL game.

So the NFL should throw the towel and give 17 wins to the Bucs because if Drew Bress, Rodgers and Mahomes couldn’t beat them LAST year, nobody can this year.

I could care less if the Bucs mop the floor with Mac. Let him play and learn as he sure as heck is not going to learn sitting the bench and watching Newton play.

 

[Deus Irae]

I could care less if the Bucs mop the floor with Mac. Let him play and learn as he sure as heck is not going to learn sitting the bench and watching Newton play.

Look at the schedule, starting with week 5:

at Texans
Dallas
NYJ
at Chargers
at Panthers


It makes a world of sense to have the veteran start the first 4 weeks (Dolphins, at Jets, Saints, Bucs), and then have Jones take over in week 5, if Cam's not proven himself by then.

 

[Vindicate]

My test for new QB's, especially one like Fields, is how they fare against BB's defense. He is a good litmus test for new QB's it seems. He's very good at testing their processing, giving them weird looks, and testing the extent of their comfort zone. It also helps that we have a secondary that can cover for a long time and clamp down on QB's who thrive on those downfield bombs. That's why I think Wilson is great - he has shown time and time again that he can manage that level of defense and still place it perfectly.

We'll see... I'm so ready for this season.

 

[Rob0729]

To follow this up:

None of the 1st round rookie QBs are ready to face the Bucs. And it's not something shameful that they aren't. The Bucs are the defending SB champions, and have a very good defense.

They are the defending champs, but that was last year and they were a Wild Card team and I wouldn't say they were one of the stronger Super Bowl winners in history

And the Bucs do have a very good defense, but they are not the 85 Bears. I don't look at their defense as an all time top defense like the 2003 Patriots, the Steel Curtain defense, 2013 Seahawks, etc. I don't even know if they are the best defense in the league this year or last. And Suh, JPP, and David are on the wrong side of 30 and could hit the age wall this year (although Suh has been on the decline for several years already). And maybe as world champions, they don't play with the same sense of urgency. We have seen this in the past that a team wins the Super Bowl and rests on its laurels.

But even if they are the same team they were in the playoffs, it is kinda silly to say no rookie QB is ready to face the Bucs. Sure you can say, they are odds are good that they will lose and not play well because they will be out matched. But that is far different than saying they aren't ready to play the Bucs and, in fact, it isn't impossible that could even outplay Brady in a head to head match up and their team beat the Bucs.

The Bucs are one of the two or three top teams in the NFL going into the season, but that doesn't mean they will be when the season goes along. And even if they are, I don't see them as this unstoppable juggernaut that only a season pro QB could even think to face.

And if all you are saying is Jones has no shot of beating the Bucs, I would say he has a better shot that Cam Newton if the Bucs turn the game into a shoot out.

 

[Rob0729]

Look at the schedule, starting with week 5:

at Texans
Dallas
NYJ
at Chargers
at Panthers


It makes a world of sense to have the veteran start the first 4 weeks (Dolphins, at Jets, Saints, Bucs), and then have Jones take over in week 5, if Cam's not proven himself by then.

Although am not against Jones sitting for a bit, but I would say the first three weeks is a far easier schedule than week 6-10.

 

[captain stone]

Should we start calling Mac Jones 'Le Big Mac'?

Or maybe La Royale with Cheese...

 

[TheRainMaker]

Fields highlights were funny. He gets one completion and the other team had the ball.

Then he had his TD run.

 

[captain stone]

The "mobile quarterback" narrative and fantasy has taken hold of the league, and it's not going away anytime soon. A big part of the reason is that lower level football is not providing the same quality of pocket passer that it used to, since it's gone to so many different offensive approaches. The two greatest QBs of the 21st century, Brady and Brees, are now considered to be limited QBs by the narrative creators.

I agree...Sorry I couldn't stop myself from making this one correction...

 

[Patsgofor4]

They are the defending champs, but that was last year and they were a Wild Card team and I wouldn't say they were one of the stronger Super Bowl winners in history

And the Bucs do have a very good defense, but they are not the 85 Bears. I don't look at their defense as an all time top defense like the 2003 Patriots, the Steel Curtain defense, 2013 Seahawks, etc. I don't even know if they are the best defense in the league this year or last. And Suh, JPP, and David are on the wrong side of 30 and could hit the age wall this year (although Suh has been on the decline for several years already). And maybe as world champions, they don't play with the same sense of urgency. We have seen this in the past that a team wins the Super Bowl and rests on its laurels.

But even if they are the same team they were in the playoffs, it is kinda silly to say no rookie QB is ready to face the Bucs. Sure you can say, they are odds are good that they will lose and not play well because they will be out matched. But that is far different than saying they aren't ready to play the Bucs and, in fact, it isn't impossible that could even outplay Brady in a head to head match up and their team beat the Bucs.

The Bucs are one of the two or three top teams in the NFL going into the season, but that doesn't mean they will be when the season goes along. And even if they are, I don't see them as this unstoppable juggernaut that only a season pro QB could even think to face.

And if all you are saying is Jones has no shot of beating the Bucs, I would say he has a better shot that Cam Newton if the Bucs turn the game into a shoot out.

The Bucs also benefited from very good health last year, both Covid and non-Covid. They also benefited greatly in the playoffs from playing on the road without fans. If the stands were packed with rabid fans in New Orleans and Green Bay, there is a pretty good chance they never make it to the Super Bowl. Those are both basically neutral site games. They deserve to be among the top 2 to 3 favorites this year but I expect them to struggle more than most anticipate, including in week 4.

I am not sure why so many here and elsewhere are just assuming that Tampa is going to roll over the Patriots. Even with the talent gap, I am very confident that Belichick will come up with a game plan to confuse and frustrate Brady….We have seen this several times when the Patriots have faced ex-Pats coordinators. In my opinion, the game will come down to whether the Bucs offense can make the necessary adjustments (certainly possible) and whether the Patriots offense can score enough points (not a sure thing by any means) to eek out a W.

 

[Sicilian]

I agree...Sorry I couldn't stop myself from making this one correction...

I'm no fan of Manning the person, but he has Brees beat 2 to 1 in Championships, 4 to 1 in Super Bowl appearances, and won on two different teams. Brees had more cumulative stats, but it's not like Manning was a game manager. He had gaudy numbers too. Both played in domes for large portions of their careers, so you can't use that as an edge for either. I don't think there's a metric other than yards that would indicate Brees was a better QB than Manning.

 

[captain stone]

Although am not against Jones sitting for a bit, but I would say the first three weeks is a far easier schedule than week 6-10.

There is no excuse for Bill not to have this team no worse than 6-3 after 9 games, ass-uming relatively good health & league-average QB play, whether that comes from Cam or Mac or a combination of both.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I agree...Sorry I couldn't stop myself from making this one correction...

I’d even take Brees off of there as he’s had a ton of playoff failures and some rough years after his only Super Bowl.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'm no fan of Manning the person, but he has Brees beat 2 to 1 in Championships, 4 to 1 in Super Bowl appearances, and won on two different teams. Brees had more cumulative stats, but it's not like Manning was a game manager. He had gaudy numbers too. Both played in domes for large portions of their careers, so you can't use that as an edge for either. I don't think there's a metric other than yards that would indicate Brees was a better QB than Manning.

You could also argue he paved the way for the fantasy football driven league it is today after his 2004 campaign.

 

[Sicilian]

I’d even take Brees off of there as he’s had a ton of playoff failures and some rough years after his only Super Bowl.

I put Brees in the same tier as Rodgers. Really good QBs, but won a SB early with their teams and then never got back to even play in one (Rodgers TBD of course).

 

[TheRainMaker]

I put Brees in the same tier as Rodgers. Really good QBs, but won a SB early with their teams and then never got back to even play in one (Rodgers TBD of course).

His only chance this year is if he has a home playoff game AND avoids Tom Brady’s Bucs. The rest of the NFC seems pretty weak.

I think this is his last year there.

 

[amfootball]

Look at the schedule, starting with week 5:

at Texans
Dallas
NYJ
at Chargers
at Panthers


It makes a world of sense to have the veteran start the first 4 weeks (Dolphins, at Jets, Saints, Bucs), and then have Jones take over in week 5, if Cam's not proven himself by then.

I think the first 3 games are easier than 5-10.

 

[Rob0729]

The Bucs also benefited from very good health last year, both Covid and non-Covid. They also benefited greatly in the playoffs from playing on the road without fans. If the stands were packed with rabid fans in New Orleans and Green Bay, there is a pretty good chance they never make it to the Super Bowl. Those are both basically neutral site games. They deserve to be among the top 2 to 3 favorites this year but I expect them to struggle more than most anticipate, including in week 4.

I am not sure why so many here and elsewhere are just assuming that Tampa is going to roll over the Patriots. Even with the talent gap, I am very confident that Belichick will come up with a game plan to confuse and frustrate Brady….We have seen this several times when the Patriots have faced ex-Pats coordinators. In my opinion, the game will come down to whether the Bucs offense can make the necessary adjustments (certainly possible) and whether the Patriots offense can score enough points (not a sure thing by any means) to eek out a W.

They also benefitted from Drew Brees clearly being done. He was a shell of himself in the playoffs. He could barely make many passes longer than three to five yards pass the line of scrimmage. And they also benefitted from both starting KC tackles being out of the game allowing them to pin their ears back and go after Mahomes who had a foot injury that required surgery after the season. During the regular season, Brees had 6 TDs and 0INTs in two blowout wins against the Bucs and Mahomes had 462 yards, 3 TDs, and 0 INTs vs. the Bucs in the regular season.

And I am not saying these things to take away from their accomplishments because that is the way life is in the NFL, but it is worth noting that that they didn't face either team at the strength they were during the regular season when you are looking at how good of team the Bucs might be this year.

If Mac Jones played on week 4, I wouldn't be shocked if the Pats won and Jones even outplayed Brady. No way in hell I would bet on either happening. But I don't think Todd Bowles or Bruce Arians either have a reputation of giving rookie QBs fits like Belichick has.

Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if the Bucs come crashing down to earth this year. They had a great streak the end of last year and the playoffs, but they were inconsistent most of the year last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the first 3 games are easier than 5-10.

First, that's not really relevant, due to game 4. Second, the Dolphins, Saints, and Bucs were 6th, 5th, and 8th in points allowed last year, with the Bucs clearly getting batter at the end of the season, while the Texans, Cowboys, and Chargers were 27th, 28th, and 23rd in points allowed (note that the Jets are in both groups, so I didn't bother with them).


The idea that the first 3 games are easier for the Patriots QBs than the games following the Bucs game is just based upon guesswork and fantasies, while the data favors the post-Bucs games being easier for the Patriots offense/QBs to face. And that's true even if you add in the Panthers (#18 scoring defense).

 

[captain stone]

If we're not 3-0 heading into the TB game, then we're not really a serious contender for even a Wild Card spot.