PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Day 7 Training Camp Thread- Wednesday August 4th

[sb1]

Interesting comment from Zolack today. He said,, if you took the numbers off the QB and just judged the throws, the guy with the best arm in camp is Jake Dogala. Says he moves with grace and quickness for a big guy and throws with a quick release, also a rareity for a guy his size. Someone already mentioned it. Make Hoyer the QB coach already and invest the #3 reps on a kid who MAY have a future.

There is a LOT more to being a QB than having a great arm, but this sounds like an intriguing prospect who deserves more than a camp arm look.

Dunno if I'd label Doleagala a "prospect" at this point. He's 25 in October.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Harry will never be the type of receiver who gets separation. If he is to be productive statistically, QBs need to throw it to him even if he's covered and let him fight for the ball. These camp highlights show that he can do it in practice. Whether that happens in games as a Patriot or elsewhere, or if it happens at all is anyone's guess. But waiting for Harry to be able to separate from DBs consistently is like waiting for Gunner to grow to 6'10". It ain't happening.

Harry ain't changing. He is who he is. Maybe he might catch 40 balls for 399 yds if he gets targeted 70 times but w/ HH, Smith, Nelson, Jakobi and Bourne as more preferred, QB-friendly targets that ain't happening.

Looks good getting off the bus but....

 

[farn]

I would wait until Harry shows how good he is in the pre-season games ?

No. I say Duckboats now ! Will You accompany me to Canton in 2035 ?

 

[mgcolby]

I'm ready to wait until next year

Why? I mean if he's not ready or if he doesn't beat out Cam, then sure. But don't sit him for a year just for the sake of sitting him.

I could see doing that with a rookie QB if the O-Line and the run game sucked and he had no outlets. And if that was the case then that team should of invested in those areas before making a big investment at QB.

However, that is not the case here. This team has one of the best lines in football, one of the best stable of backs in football, two of the best TE's in football and an ok WR corps. Plus they have what should be one of, if not the best defense in football. It's a perfect storm for a capable rookie to succeed.

 

[Kontradiction]

What contributions as a gunner on Special Teams? He's working to be the back-up to Slater and Bethel. Jonathan Jones is also ahead of him as a gunner. Wilkerson is the one who has to have an incredible camp to make the team as a special teamer. In all likelihood, he's going to be on the PS Taxi squad. 1st one up if there is an Injury at WR.

Slater is 35 and Bethel is 30. Further, we’re probably going to utilize a lot of 11, 12, and 21 personnel this season unless injuries hit at TE. Harry doesn’t contribute to ST, so IF the team is going to keep 5 WRs on the active roster, it’s a pretty easy assumption to make that the 5th would need to be able to contribute to ST. Wilkerson’s also gotten more and more reps with the starting O as camp has gone on.

 

[mgcolby]

Have any of the rookie QB's dominated in their camp? Heard Lance and Fields are doing well but that's about it.

If Cam is the starter in week 1 I just hope he is a few notches above terrible.

Reading Lance's camp reports he sounds all world. Then I watched a video of what was described as a "video game ridiculousness" throw. It was nice but not to warrant that description. He basically rolled out of the pocket as it was collapsing on a play action (it appeared, tough to tell the way the video was shot) and threw a nice ball ball about 45-50 yards to a wide open receiver. So I am not sure if the hype out of SF about him is fully warranted or wishful thinking or a little of both.

*Edit*: forgot to add that as of yesterday he only had one rep with the 1's. Which is the throw I described above. Not sure how many reps have been against the 1's on Defense.

Fields now has full grasp of calling the plays in the huddle, according to him. And according to Nagy he is now able to actually see and understand the play he is calling in his head versus simply calling out the play in the huddle. Which by itself was an apparent struggle up until recently, according to his own words. Very glad we don't have Fields. He has another Ohio St QB bust written all over him.

Lawrence seems to be up and down as you would expect from a rookie thrown to the wolves early on. He does benefit from practicing against a terrible defense.

From what I have read on Wilson it's been a mixed bag as well.

So in other words typical rookie QB ****.

 

[Steve102]

Anquan Boldin hardly got any separation for much of his 14 year NFL career, which included 14,000 yds, 82 TD's and being the best offensive player on a Superbowl winner.

There are a lot of ways to be a productive receiver other than speed and separation. Coming out of college no scout thought Harry had great separation. But what he DID have is what he is showing in camp now. The ability to position his body to shield defensive backs from the ball and to use his size advantage to win the ball and strong hands The other thing they expect from him is to be strong after the catch.

What he has shown so far gives us a glimpse of his potential can be when he is used correctly and he works hard.

I can't help but think his working hard is directly related to his desire to be out of Foxboro.

 

[Scotty]

No. I say Duckboats now ! Will You accompany me to Canton in 2035 ?

Oooops , I should have said 2021 pre season games.....lol

 

[condon84]

Anquan Boldin hardly got any separation for much of his 14 year NFL career, which included 14,000 yds, 82 TD's and being the best offensive player on a Superbowl winner.

There are a lot of ways to be a productive receiver other than speed and separation. Coming out of college no scout thought Harry had great separation. But what he DID have is what he is showing in camp now. The ability to position his body to shield defensive backs from the ball and to use his size advantage to win the ball and strong hands The other thing they expect from him is to be strong after the catch.

What he has shown so far gives us a glimpse of his potential can be when he is used correctly and he works hard.

Yeah I believe he can also be that type of player, albeit not as prolific as Boldin. It's just mind boggling though that we used a first round pick on him knowing what his strenghts and weaknesses are and then not using the same exact strength that prompted us to draft him. It's like BB the GM didn't convey the reasons why we drafted Harry to BB the HC lol.

 

[mgcolby]

I can't help but think his working hard is directly related to his desire to be out of Foxboro.

I can kind of imagine his conversation about wanting a trade going something like this.

Harry: Coach I don't believe I am being put in a position for my full potential to be utilized. So I would like you to trade my talents.

BB: Talents? What talents are those? Getting hurt in TC every year, disappearing during every game that you manage to hobble onto the field for? No one in this league is looking for injury as a talent son.
Right now I couldn't trade you for jizz stained jock strap. But I tell you what if you work hard this TC you could possibly make this team and if by chance that hard work isn't good enough to make the cut here. It could increase your trade value to something...well...more useful to me than a jizz stained jock strap.
Now get your sorry ass out there and play!

Harry: Ok. Good talk coach.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Anquan Boldin hardly got any separation for much of his 14 year NFL career, which included 14,000 yds, 82 TD's and being the best offensive player on a Superbowl winner.

There are a lot of ways to be a productive receiver other than speed and separation. Coming out of college no scout thought Harry had great separation. But what he DID have is what he is showing in camp now. The ability to position his body to shield defensive backs from the ball and to use his size advantage to win the ball and strong hands The other thing they expect from him is to be strong after the catch.

What he has shown so far gives us a glimpse of his potential can be when he is used correctly and he works hard.

Boldin also had 157 catches and 2000yds receiving his 1st 2 years catching balls from Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.

Dude was a beast.

Harry aint

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Fields now has full grasp of calling the plays in the huddle, according to him. And according to Nagy he is now able to actually see and understand the play he is calling in his head versus simply calling out the play in the huddle, which apparently was a struggle up until recently according to his own words. Very glad we don't have Fields. He has another Ohio St QB bust written all over him.

I think you may be interpreting this more negatively than it is. Ohio State has changed a lot over the years. They used a fairly pro-style offense, or at least with principles of personnel grouping and route combos, but they didn't use name-number-color (or whatever) for play calls. Imagine learning 700+ new sentences? It's a ton to memorize in a few short months.

Here's just one example of different terms used. This popped up after a simple Google search, so I can't take any credit for drawing it up. He knows the play; it's learning the terminology of the offense (which is quite complex). From all accounts, he's been in control of the offense and has been making plays. I think he'll be very good.





As for our own camp reports: it sounds about like what we'd expect. There's a learning curve. No concerns or big red flags for week one. We'll get a clearer understanding after a couple games.

I do like seeing some of the drills for receivers. I suspect they'll be a step up from last year. Will that include Harry? Hard to say -- Wilkerson may have the edge if he can show the ability to take over for Slater / Bethel -- but if Harry makes the team, then I think he leads in red zone production this year, although nowhere else.

 

[Kontradiction]

I can't help but think his working hard is directly related to his desire to be out of Foxboro.

Could be. I doubt he had many serious trade destinations.

 

[DarrylS]

Made my pilgrimage to Foxborough this AM, to start off do not like this new numbering system.. liked the old system better.. Bentley #8, Judon #9, Bourne #84 as it the number association with the position was more palatable for my brain.

I was able to score a roster by asking around, and someone told me who to ask.. if not I would have been lost.

Focused mostly on the Offense, as the Defense is less suspect, forgot how entertaining Cam is, but he sucked today.. he seemed completely off. Mac Jones seemed very much on. Hoyer and Donelaga were both pretty much meh.

Henry and Smith were favorite targets today and both have a huge catch radius. Thought all of the receivers played well, even Harry was fighting for the ball with good results. Agholor is quick and plays bigger than he is. Bourne is fast.

Cam seemed very humbled by the end of practice and he got 0 reps for the final series, Cam 5-for-7 with an interception in 11-on-11 work and just 2-for-6 in 7-on-7s with another interception. When Cam is off he is not even close, miscommunication ?? Overall Mac Jones was 13-of-18 in 11-on-11s and 4-of-5 in 7-on-7s , mostly working underneath.

Good to be back at Gillette, the crowd was very manageable.. lots of space on the grassy berm. I kept in mind that this is the 7th practice of the year and to really judge much of anything is premature, there are lots of new bodies on those fields familiarizing themselves with the Patriots systems..

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

It’s beyond stupid Mac is still wearing #50, let the guy pick a number and wear it already.

I'm waiting to get his jersey!

 

[Steve102]

Could be. I doubt he had many serious trade destinations.

none.

 

[mgcolby]

I think you may be interpreting this more negatively than it is. Ohio State has changed a lot over the years. They used a fairly pro-style offense, or at least with principles of personnel grouping and route combos, but they didn't use name-number-color (or whatever) for play calls. Imagine learning 700+ new sentences? It's a ton to memorize in a few short months.

Here's just one example of different terms used. This popped up after a simple Google search, so I can't take any credit for drawing it up. He knows the play; it's learning the terminology of the offense (which is quite complex). From all accounts, he's been in control of the offense and has been making plays. I think he'll be very good.





As for our own camp reports: it sounds about like what we'd expect. There's a learning curve. No concerns or big red flags for week one. We'll get a clearer understanding after a couple games.

I do like seeing some of the drills for receivers. I suspect they'll be a step up from last year. Will that include Harry? Hard to say -- Wilkerson may have the edge if he can show the ability to take over for Slater / Bethel -- but if Harry makes the team, then I think he leads in red zone production this year, although nowhere else.

I don't think its anywhere as complex or at least should be for these guys as you appear to think. I have coached 12 year old up to 15 year old kids with play calls in our offense close to or as long as that. Everyone has to know what they are doing. The play call tells them that, the QB has to know what everyone is doing. He should of been doing this since at least high school, if not sooner.

This is one of the bigger issues when highly QBs come out of of simplified or dumber down High School and College offenses. They can't get by with sheer talent or athleticism alone in the NFL. They get exposed. I don't wish him anything but well in his NFL career, I personally just don't see it happening.

 

[BobDigital]

Mac Jones seems to make 2 splash plays for every bad play. Not bad for a rookie this early. As I said before, when it comes to rookies the downs are expected, it all about the ups you see. Ideally the kind of progression you want to see is that by the end of training camp he is making only 1 big mistake every practice. If he gets to that level of consistency I'd say he is well ahead of the curve.

 

[IllegalContact]

Why? I mean if he's not ready or if he doesn't beat out Cam, then sure. But don't sit him for a year just for the sake of sitting him.

I could see doing that with a rookie QB if the O-Line and the run game sucked and he had no outlets. And if that was the case then that team should of invested in those areas before making a big investment at QB.

However, that is not the case here. This team has one of the best lines in football, one of the best stable of backs in football, two of the best TE's in football and an ok WR corps. Plus they have what should be one of, if not the best defense in football. It's a perfect storm for a capable rookie to succeed.

I’m just being patient.

beating out cam is not the test…..being ready to play is more important….putting a rookie out there because he sucked less stands to quite possibly ruin the investment if he’s not ready and needs to be yanked by week 3

talk to me after week 4 the last thing we need is for junior to fall flat on his face during the Brady circus

 

[jdlboot14]

Lots of twitter posts about guys making impressive acrobatic catches from Cam... Ya, they're having to contort or leap to catch it, because Cam is so inaccurate. That doesn't mean Cam is doing great!

One more thing. People keep chiding Mac for mostly going "underneath", as if that's a clear sign he's not ready or bad or taking the easy way out. Do we forget that Brady's style coined the "dink & dunk" approach that made him the GOAT. Commentators still referred to Brady's games as dink & dunk during the 2nd SB era, after years like 07, etc... At least Mac can hit people in stride at 10yds, and not drill a hole in the dirt 5 yards short.