N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

[203Pat]

Tell me how its not

Because tons of time, money, and research go into it.

Crapshoot: I am going to open a restaurant by my house even though I have no experience owning, running, or even working in a restaurant.

Not a crapshoot: I have worked in a restaurant for 20 years. I started as a busboy and worked my way up to manager. I have saved a good amount of money and have lined up investors as well. I have also researched proper food and liquor costs with distributors and found a location that is not saturated with the same type of restaurant I am looking to open.

Neither one is guaranteed to be successful but one sure stands a much better chance.

 

[PScottman]

You can have structure and discipline and also be flexible especially with aging vets who are your top players.

I think that's exactly what I said. What has Arians won with his laissez faire/players run the show approach previous to the "perfect storm" he fell into last year?

I will never understand why Bill jerked around with Brady in this regard.

There's this internet meme that Brady was "jerked around"? What does that even mean?

What I read in this posting of it: "Belichick didn't let Brady run things". Full stop.

Tom Brady is the GOAT. There is no disputing that.

However he is the greatest QB of all time, not Coach, GM, talent evaluator, scout, etc. There are roles in a team dynamic for a reason.

Players can and should have a say, but if you have twenty different people with the final say, you may as well have none at all.

The dynasties of the Patriots were successful because of a structural, strategic approach mixed with that exemplary talent players like Brady brought as well as a willingness to accept, and champion, that team approach from those on-the-field leadership positions. Each (management and workforce essentially) needing the other to craft that long term success once the external pressures of cap management, ego, drafting and other aspects necessarily rear their head in the process of building, coaching, and playing in the Patriots franchise.

 

[Pape]

Because tons of time, money, and research go into it.

That provides what? A better opportunity of success. Doing due diligence is part of the job. But that in and of itself does not guarantee success.

Its a risk proposition, each & every pick. On the field and off.

Every draft has hits. Every draft has misses. No matter how many resources are thrown at it.

 

[203Pat]

That provides what? A better opportunity of success. Doing due diligence is part of the job. But that in and of itself does not guarantee success.

Its a risk proposition, each & every pick. On the field and off.

Every draft has hits. Every draft has misses. No matter how many resources are thrown at it.

Yes and it is far from a guessing game. Some teams take calculated risks some teams play it safe. There isn't just a list of 300 players and each team throws a dart at a random name. That would be a crapshoot.

 

[Pats1971]

That provides what? A better opportunity of success. Doing due diligence is part of the job. But that in and of itself does not guarantee success.

Its a risk proposition, each & every pick. On the field and off.

Every draft has hits. Every draft has misses. No matter how many resources are thrown at it.

But again,,,the better ones get it right more than the not so good ones. I mean I am no football guru, but watching Harry in college, he never really ran away from guys, and a lot of his catches were contested that he would win, but in the NFl, you have to win battles to get open. He was not really doing that in college. Now if that I can see that, they should be able to. Again, there is a lot put into drafting, if it was just a crap shoot, then they would not spend all the time they do on it.

 

[Pats1971]

Yes and it is far from a guessing game. Some teams take calculated risks some teams play it safe. There isn't just a list of 300 players and each team throws a dart at a random name. That would be a crapshoot.

Exactly. A crapshoot would be, not knowing anything about the players, not looking to see how they would fit with team, not looking at good points and bad points, etc etc. It would be just like a fan doing a mock draft.

 

[Uptown]

Harry + 6th for Christian Kirk + 7th rounder?

 

[Pats1971]

Harry + 6th for Christian Kirk + 7th rounder?

So you are hoping that Arizona is stupid then?

 

[Wozzy]

I just like to see people squirm in the face of facts. Especially facts that have already happened.

You can see me squirming… how? Are you watching me like some creeper from down on the street, peeping in my windows? Your obsession with Harry is only dwarfed by your obsession with me… creepy.

 

[Uptown]

So you are hoping that Arizona is stupid then?

Well, yeah; Aren’t we all? It’s actually not far fetched. Kirk isn’t a world beater & they’re pretty loaded at WR. Also, IIRC Kirk was allegedly in the dog house at some point last season. Harry also fits their system; more of a vertical/west-coast style. Just because he was ineffective here, doesn’t mean another team can’t use him. Lastly, AZ recently showed interest in Harry. Maybe a young DB/OT…?…Idk, just shootin’ the sh#t..

 

[Wozzy]

I wouldn’t either if I were you. That’s not a winning proposition since you already confused the X and Z receivers.



You mean the highlights that all start after the snap? Christ. Go review the All-22. Having a slot receiver between him and the LoS doesn’t mean anything, so I’m not sure why you’re even going there. Byrd was often aligned away from the strength of the formation and on the LoS. Did he play off the line as well? Sure. But the majority of his snaps came as either the X or the Y.



1) The Z can still get jammed. Aligned off the LoS doesn’t mean they get a free release.

2) Amendola, Dorsett, and Edelman also aligned at the X or Y. According to your logic here, lining them up there was dumb football.

3) Considering Harry’s inability to beat press with any sort of consistency, and coupling that with your logic above, why in God’s name would you want him as the X? Why did he struggle with beating press as the Z?



Because the two they drafted didn’t show any immediate promise. If they had, there would have been no need to back the Brinks truck up a year later for the same position.



Cool. They gave out a total of $77,500,000 of guaranteed money to weapons - 2 TEs and 2 WRs. But keep acting like weapons weren’t a big need and Chatham’s take was a good one. The facts disagree.



They brought in Agholor and Bourne when they already had Meyers and Harry. Meyers has played himself into a starting role this year. Harry has not. Harry was a first round pick. If Harry was producing or at least showing promise, there would be no need to sign two receivers to go along with two TEs. Harry sucks. That’s the common link.



Yeah, aside from three brand new faces in the WR room, it’s exactly like last year.



Why would my head explode? I was very complimentary of Nixon in my review of him after he was drafted. I’d love it if he stuck. I’m guessing you’re forgetting Agholor, though, when you say that “the entire room is made up of homegrown talent,” though. Thats understandable. You’re contorting yourself into so many different pretzels here that I can see why you’re losing track.

I’m not sure why you think my head would explode over a WR room of mostly homegrown talent. I’ve been posting regularly on this forum for 15 years now and am probably close to 60,000 posts. You think that’s just a ruse or a cover because I secretly hate this team? That’s a Chatham-style hot take



Cam sucked and so did the receivers and TEs he had to throw to also sucked. Both things are true. That one is true does not mean the other is false and vice versa. If the weapons weren’t an issue, the guaranteed money would have went elsewhere



Okay.

I’m not arguing X’s and O’s with you because you’re willfully ignorant. Now you’re blaming the video quality, as if you can’t see the slot receivers or where they’re lined up from it lol. I almost forgot… you don’t believe video evidence or what we see with our eyes, what’s more important is the messenger.

I love how you lump all the money they gave to two TE’s and Agholor then pretend Bourne was a crucial signing because of the combined money paid to all four. Three are highly paid, Bourne is paid blah and the team has an out after one season.

Two WR’s are gone and two replaced them, Nixon is a 7th round pick with good athleticism… again, I’d love to see him stick so the entire WR room outside of Agholor will be homegrown talent so you and the rest of the misanthropes can tell us how they can’t find WR’s from the college ranks.

 

[Pats1971]

Well, yeah; Aren’t we all? It’s actually not far fetched. Kirk isn’t a world beater & they’re pretty loaded at WR. Also, IIRC Kirk was allegedly in the dog house at some point last season. Harry also fits their system; more of a vertical/west-coast style. Just because he was ineffective here, doesn’t mean another team can’t use him. Idk, just shootin’ the sh#t..

Good points, but then, why would they want Harry over a guy who is already doing what they hope harry does which is get 50 catches or so and 4 or 5 td's, knows the system, all to go up from 7th to 6th?

 

[203Pat]

I’m not arguing X’s and O’s with you because you’re willfully ignorant. Now you’re blaming the video quality, as if you can’t see the slot receivers or where they’re lined up from it lol. I almost forgot… you don’t believe video evidence or what we see with our eyes, what’s more important is the messenger.

I love how you lump all the money they gave to two TE’s and Agholor then pretend Bourne was a crucial signing because of the combined money paid to all four. Three are highly paid, Bourne is paid blah and the team has an out after one season.

Two WR’s are gone and two replaced them, Nixon is a 7th round pick with good athleticism… again, I’d love to see him stick so the entire WR room outside of Agholor will be homegrown talent so you and the rest of the misanthropes can tell us how they can’t find WR’s from the college ranks.

When is the last actual receiver they picked that worked out? Branch in 2002? Using your eyes makes you a misanthrope now?

 

[Pape]

But again,,,the better ones get it right more than the not so good ones. I mean I am no football guru, but watching Harry in college, he never really ran away from guys, and a lot of his catches were contested that he would win, but in the NFl, you have to win battles to get open. He was not really doing that in college. Now if that I can see that, they should be able to. Again, there is a lot put into drafting, if it was just a crap shoot, then they would not spend all the time they do on it.

Better teams can take risks that others may not do because of what is surrounding the new player - coaching, ownership, player leadership - all that factors into it. Obviously teams, even bad ones, do due diligence when it comes to players. Levels of resources to develop opinions on players vary greatly around the league. But in the end its a guessing game.

 

[Wozzy]

When is the last actual receiver they picked that worked out? Branch in 2002? Using your eyes makes you a misanthrope now?

They've picked 5 WR'S in the first three rounds during the entirety of BB's tenure with the Patriots.

They obviously value veteran experience at the position, seasoned players who already understand the job. Moreover there is a glut of WR's and RB's in the league as free agents and late in the draft, you find them everywhere... and the Patriots have.

For such a poorly run franchise they sure have been wildly successful and have fielded some of the best offenses and passing attacks in the league for two decades.

 

[203Pat]

Good points, but then, why would they want Harry over a guy who is already doing what they hope harry does which is get 50 catches or so and 4 or 5 td's, knows the system, all to go up from 7th to 6th?

Christian Kirk's worst season stats are better than Harry's entire career. Unless they planned to cut him, which I don't know why they would considering someone would give up at least a mid to late rounder for him, they would be fools to make that trade. Maybe Arizona is ready to give up on Isabella and each underwhelming receiver heads back to his colligate stomping grounds. Even still I can't see Arizona wanting to give up anything for a guy who has a good chance of getting cut in August.

 

[Uptown]

Good points, but then, why would they want Harry over a guy who is already doing what they hope harry does which is get 50 catches or so and 4 or 5 td's, knows the system, all to go up from 7th to 6th?

Maybe they believe he projects better in their system, bigger body, more upside, RZ target, cheaper etc..? Again, many will read this and say “Hell no!”…I’m speaking about Harry in THEIR offensive system; not NE. They inquired about him for a reason. Not sure exactly happened with Kirk last year, but his playing time was reduced and they drafted Rondale Moore in the second; which means he’ll likely see significant snaps in the slot (he and Green due to age). Another interesting viewpoint is Harry relieving Green on some snaps in the RZ.

 

[Pats1971]

Christian Kirk's worst season stats are better than Harry's entire career. Unless they planned to cut him, which I don't know why they would considering someone would give up at least a mid to late rounder for him, they would be fools to make that trade. Maybe Arizona is ready to give up on Isabella and each underwhelming receiver heads back to his colligate stomping grounds. Even still I can't see Arizona wanting to give up anything for a guy who has a good chance of getting cut in August.

I mean thats it in a nutshell, why would Arizona even want Harry? I do not mean to pile on, but what are they seeing to say, yeah we are going to give up a receiver who is producing for a guy who cant get open.

 

[Pats1971]

Maybe they believe he projects better in their system, bigger body, more upside, RZ target, cheaper etc..? Again, many will read this and say “Hell no!”…I’m speaking about Harry in THEIR offensive system; not NE. They inquired about him for a reason. Not sure exactly happened with Kirk last year, but his playing time was reduced and they drafted Rondale Moore in the second; which means he’ll likely see significant snaps in the slot (he and Green due to age). Another interesting viewpoint is Harry relieving Green on some snaps in the RZ.

Oh I get your point, but I ask again, why would they want Harry then? What is teh benefit to them? I mean it helps the pats because, hell yeah thats a good trade. I am just not sure why Az would do it for at best a 5th option at wideout. I hear some of your points, but I just think they could find better options if that is how they wanted to go.

 

[203Pat]

They've picked 3 WR'S in the first three rounds during the entirety of BB's tenure with the Patriots.

They obviously value veteran experience at the position, seasoned players who already understand the job. Moreover there is a glut of WR's and RB's in the league as free agents and late in the draft, you find them everywhere... and the Patriots have.

For such a poorly run franchise they sure have been wildly successful and have fielded some of the best offenses and passing attacks in the league for two decades.

Bill has actually picked 7 receivers in the first 3 rounds since he has been here (surprised they didn't tell you that in your Boston.com days) and all except Branch were busts. Apparently 1 for 7 makes me a misanthrope.