N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

[50-yard-line]

You're trying to equate what's not fairly equatable. I'm not sure why you think it takes a "know-it-all" to figure that out.


Player 1: Essentially no time to show himself, due to repeated injuries.
Player 2: Had a slow start due to injury. Has since had a slew of games to demonstrate his ability, and has failed.


Campbell was injured in his second game last year, and was lost for the season, and you tried to equate that to a guy who played the entire year, and who has played in 12 more games just in 2 seasons. Don't go flipping hostility to me over that. Just acknowledge that it was a terrible attempt at a comp and move on.

You really are blind to the condescension in your posts, aren't you? It drips, man, it drips.

Harry's situation was terrible and unfortunate from the start. Injured in his START in the NFL, then comes back when Brady's royally pissed off and hurt, to boot. Then no preseason again and Cam Newton throwing the ball.

This year was make or break for him, and looks like break before it even begins. So, good riddance to any player who doesn't want to earn his spot. He's got the physical tools to be successful, but that's half the game, if that.

Campbell, had he been the pick (since he was rated higher than Harry on the board that was being used, Walter Football), would be called IR Campbell by now, right? 9 games, 24 catches, 198 yard in TWO YEARS for a 1st round pick?

Again, that's the context you keep ignoring - I was, you know, responding to a poster who used the Walter Football 2019 ratings to mke his point that Harry shouldn't have been picked. In the top 10 they rated, with 9 still on the board, only Metcalf, Samuel, and Brown have panned out as worthy of that pick the Pats used on Harry. And Marquis Brown has in now way been worth the Ravens pick to this point. Hence my comment about a crap shoot - which was also in reference to that Walter Football board.

I don't see why this is such a burr in your ass, Deus. The pick should have been AJ Brown. it should have been then and it remains the same now. And their second pick should have been DK Metcalf, who was practically gifted to them. There's no disagreement there (although I would have also been happy with Deebo in the 1st) - particularly since both AJ Brown and Deebo Samuel (AND Hunter Renfrow) all were very public about wanting to play for the Patriots.

I'm still gobsmacked that the Pats didn't listen.

 

[Deus Irae]

You really are blind to the condescension in your posts, aren't you? It drips, man, it drips.

You called me a myopic know it all for pointing out the obvious difference between a player who's unproven due to injuries and a player who's had the chance to prove himself and failed to do so. So spare me the personal attacks.

 

[jah]

You really are blind to the condescension in your posts, aren't you? It drips, man, it drips.

Harry's situation was terrible and unfortunate from the start. Injured in his START in the NFL, then comes back when Brady's royally pissed off and hurt, to boot. Then no preseason again and Cam Newton throwing the ball.

This year was make or break for him, and looks like break before it even begins. So, good riddance to any player who doesn't want to earn his spot. He's got the physical tools to be successful, but that's half the game, if that.

Campbell, had he been the pick (since he was rated higher than Harry on the board that was being used, Walter Football), would be called IR Campbell by now, right? 9 games, 24 catches, 198 yard in TWO YEARS for a 1st round pick?

Again, that's the context you keep ignoring - I was, you know, responding to a poster who used the Walter Football 2019 ratings to mke his point that Harry shouldn't have been picked. In the top 10 they rated, with 9 still on the board, only Metcalf, Samuel, and Brown have panned out as worthy of that pick the Pats used on Harry. And Marquis Brown has in now way been worth the Ravens pick to this point. Hence my comment about a crap shoot - which was also in reference to that Walter Football board.

I don't see why this is such a burr in your ass, Deus. The pick should have been AJ Brown. it should have been then and it remains the same now. And their second pick should have been DK Metcalf, who was practically gifted to them. There's no disagreement there (although I would have also been happy with Deebo in the 1st) - particularly since both AJ Brown and Deebo Samuel (AND Hunter Renfrow) all were very public about wanting to play for the Patriots.

I'm still gobsmacked that the Pats didn't listen.

Are people unironically using Walter Football to prove a point in here? I haven't been paying much attention.

 

[Deus Irae]

You called me a myopic know it all for pointing out the obvious difference between a player who's unproven due to injuries and a player who's had the chance to prove himself and failed to do so. He was the only player that I'd brought up, and I brought him up because he so obviously didn't belong in a talent bust list. So spare me the personal attacks, and do a little bit of self-refection about your own posting.

 

[scott99]

Metcalf fell in the eyes of some because people were judging on an all or nothing scale with him. "Yeah, he's great at catching the ball, has great explosion, and is a physical freak, but his route tree is limited, because he's not particularly nimble" is really what it was all about. So, basically, he was knocked down as an OWR because he didn't have SlotWR quicks.

In his case, the high floor was ignored in favor of a theoretically lower ceiling.

In Harry's case, the low floor was ignored in favor of a theoretically low ceiling that was overhyped as a higher ceiling.



It doesn't make sense, but here we are.

Also I think Metcalf had a neck injury in his history. I thought medical reports cleared him, but maybe teams were scared.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Metcalf fell in the eyes of some because people were judging on an all or nothing scale with him. "Yeah, he's great at catching the ball, has great explosion, and is a physical freak, but his route tree is limited, because he's not particularly nimble" is really what it was all about. So, basically, he was knocked down as an OWR because he didn't have SlotWR quicks.

In his case, the high floor was ignored in favor of a theoretically lower ceiling.

In Harry's case, the low floor was ignored in favor of a theoretically low ceiling that was overhyped as a higher ceiling.



It doesn't make sense, but here we are.

Correct but that was post-testing. There were other concerns like production, neck injury before that. He was never the best WR on his team besides a game here or there. There were legit concerns before the silly stuff about his 3C. He was purely projection.

ASU didn't do Harry any favors preparing him on or off the field. Hopefully this doesn't make us trigger shy looking at the position though.

 

[mgteich]

Well, Harry's agent got a lot of interest in fan message boards. It remains to be seen whether the team has any interest in seeking a trade, and whether they will give permission for the agent to talk to other teams.

I would note that it seems unlikely that Harry will make more money elsewhere.
==========
My BOTTOM LINE
Whether Harry was a terrible pick is totally irrelevant.
Whether Harry has produced yet is somewhat relevant..
The open question is whether Harry is worth a roster spot, or whether thy should spend money on someone else, in addition to his $2M.

If the team has decided that they just want out, they they will find someone to take him for a conditional 7th. or a 2023 7th.

Personally, unless they have someone ready to send a significant draft choice, I would keep him in camp. One of the others might beat him out for the last roster spot, or NOT. His compensation is guaranteed. Is Nixon $600K better than Harry? Maybe, or maybe not.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I bet that Mike Lombardi is very disappointed in K’Neal Harry.

Screws up his name every…Single…Time. Not to mention his takes on Nick Sessario. I don’t know why his podcast cohost/gimp doesn’t correct him off-air.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It's a reasonable request, maybe they can trade him for another player who isn't flashing in that other team as well. I hope things change in this offense with Mac, at a certain point, for any 1st round grade WR, to be drafted by the Patriots wasn't exactly a dream come true for a young guy wanting to put up great numbers and sign a massive contract. This was never a thing with this team even in a hypothetical scenario of the WR working out.

He would probably do better with Big Ben or maybe Carlson Wentz, trading him inside the conference is not an issue. Maybe Seattle is a good fit as well. I just don't give a F. Trade his azz.

Completely reasonable. Let’s be honest about this, on an offense featuring Meyers, Byrd, Asiasi, and Keene, there was simply no way a 1st round pick like Harry would ever be able to earn some targets. There was simply too much talent for him to get a chance. Belichick should send him to Dallas for 2 1st’s, or maybe Tennessee, at least he will get his shot to be a true #1 WR with those WR units.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I bet that Mike Lombardi is very disappointed in K’Neal Harry.

Screws up his name every…Single…Time. Not to mention his takes on Nick Sessario. I don’t know why his podcast cohost/gimp doesn’t correct him off-air.

This was definitely a Lombardi/Bill pick. I liked Harry too but I would have went elsewhere with that pick.

I liked that it broke a certain mold in terms of where we take the position and who we look at. We just missed on the guy.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I am OK with trading him for a 4th at worst….or another player that is also underachieving their draft status… otherwise, I’d rather see us keep him around…let it all play out. We have nothing to lose at this point…he was in real danger of being released in August…what team would trade for him? Can we even get a 4?

I think the Alouettes would be willing to give up that 4th for him.

 

[‘Mondre]

Look if this is his last year to prove himself (still probably to late), he’ll be risking injury given his role here, and facing odds less in his favor than elsewhere. If you were in his shoes your agent would tell you the same thing. They’ll clearly have down the field options with agholor, and two good tes. He sees he won’t fit. It’s selfish, but who can afford not to be? Didn’t he just buy a house too?

looking at it from his perspective, it makes enough sense to me.

there’s a lot of “HOW dare he?!?” Cause of the slow news and drama attached to a trade request. Seems like a desperate (because his situation is indeed desperate) business move to me. Trust is probably destroyed with ne.

 

[Patsgofor4]

This was definitely a Lombardi/Bill pick. I liked Harry too but I would have went elsewhere with that pick.

I liked that it broke a certain mold in terms of where we take the position and who we look at. We just missed on the guy.

Didn’t Lombardi say that anyone who wanted to draft DK over Harry was a moron, or something to that effect? Yikes.

To my amateur eyes, Harry just looks like a different player for the Patriots than he did in college, and I’m not talking about production against lesser competition or his route running. He just looks less explosive, less athletic, less aggressive and less confident than he did at Arizona State. To me, his confidence seems shot and that is showing up on the field. That’s obviously not the only reason for his struggles, or even the main reason, but I believe that it is playing a role.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Didn’t Lombardi say that anyone who wanted to draft DK over Harry was a moron, or something to that effect? Yikes.

To my amateur eyes, Harry just looks like a different player for the Patriots than he did in college, and I’m not talking about production against lesser competition or his route running. He just looks less explosive, less athletic, less aggressive and less confident than he did at Arizona State. To me, his confidence seems shot and that is showing up on the field. That’s obviously not the only reason for his struggles, or even the main reason, but I believe that it is playing a role.

I have no problem missing but you can't take guys like Mike seriously when it comes to eval bc he's so emotional. When it becomes personal you lost you're way. When you start evaluating, judging guys on what you like or what style you like. Again you lost your way.

Here's the quote.

“To me (N’Keal Harry is) a legitimate receiver. That guy can play anywhere on the field … and when the ball’s in his hands, he’s a beast,” Lombardi said. “He’s a freakin’ beast.”

Metcalf, on the other hand, ran 324 of 344 snaps from the left outside wide receiver spot, according to Pro Football Focus, and did not employ pre-snap motion.

“You’re gonna have to run some option routes, you’re gonna have to run some in-cuts, you’re gonna have to run some snags, you gotta run a tree to be a really good receiver,” Lombardi said. “If a defensive back knows you can only go one direction … Metcalf can’t run more than 3 routes, who’s going to beat him?”

Simply put, Lombardi thinks it’s “comedy” to put Metcalf over Harry on a draft board.

“You take Metcalf before him, you’re an idiot. You’re an idiot,” Lombardi said.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Please, someone alert me when Mike Lombardi is right about something. It can be anything…a player evaluation, a prediction, an insight into the Patriots, a draft pick, a free agent. No one is more of a phony than Lombardi. He has zero connections.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

I watched a few of his AZ state games and was actually kind of impressed how he could dominate their games. I could tell he wasn't fast, but he could box out and beat out any CB for the ball.

2 years of pro experience and we saw very little of that translate. I don't see him lasting another 2 years in the league.

 

[Zuma]

Please, someone alert me when Mike Lombardi is right about something. It can be anything…a player evaluation, a prediction, an insight into the Patriots, a draft pick, a free agent. No one is more of a phony than Lombardi. He has zero connections.

I thought the little tidbits he provided years ago were accurate for the most part but as the years go on he seems to miss the mark more.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Please, someone alert me when Mike Lombardi is right about something. It can be anything…a player evaluation, a prediction, an insight into the Patriots, a draft pick, a free agent. No one is more of a phony than Lombardi. He has zero connections.

No problem. He was right not to change his last name.

 

[Pape]

Harry needs to talk to Dwayne Allen or someone similar... get coached up, convert to TE, a blocking TE...

As a WR he has limited to no upside at this point... maybe as a TE someone would take a flyer on him

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Harry needs to talk to Dwayne Allen or someone similar... get coached up, convert to TE, a blocking TE...

As a WR he has limited to no upside at this point... maybe as a TE someone would take a flyer on him

I know this has been talked about a bunch but those are killer odds. He'd be in the 10 percentile for TE even if he added weight. Learning a new position. That would be a last ditch effort. He has at least one more shot at WR. He needs an as-skicking and tough love sit down with the next OC and show him this video.

He was never going to be a WR1 but there's no reason he can't crave out a role as WR imo.

Lol I've been wrong so far so who knows