OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Zarozzor]

Yeah, I’m sure they’re happier now than they would have been with Brady The textbook example of the oft-misapplied term sour grapes right there. A championship wouldn’t have been so great anyway.

While I think that Saints team was totally loaded last year, and has been for four years, I also think their cap problems are blowing up, though mitigated this year because of the downgrade in QB salary since they’re using scrubs. 2020 and possibly 2021 would have been good championship opportunities for Brady, but the cap is tight and they’re lacking those cheap rookie deals. They lost a handful of big FAs this year (Sanders, Cooks, Hendrickson, Rankins, Jenkins, Alexander) and couldn’t afford much in return. If they had Brady at $25M it would have been much worse. 2022 has another big list of UFAs, most of whom they’ll likely lose, including Armstead and Ramczyk.

Tampa Bay was overall a better situation with a 3-4 year championship window, provided the coaching and offensive line weren’t as bad as advertised, and it appears both are a lot better.

The arrogant, chirpy “Breeze wood have 11 super bowls with Bellacheck” crowd had this coming though. There a handful of articles written last year, mainly by those beat writer / fan blogger hybrids claiming the 2020 season was proof that Brees > Brady.

I wonder if the fans know that if they had Brady, they would have seen a good playoff offense for the first time since 2011.

Their offense since 2013 in the playoffs is embarrassing. Especially since 2017, and that's with all 7 of those being dome games.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Reason #2,476 Mike Lombardi is con artist claiming to be an insider when he is just a contrarian troll who says a bunch of nonsensical things.

Yeah…sure Mike. Brady had it all worked out to play for Miami (even though their owner shot it down early) and they went with Fitzpatrick over him. Sounds really plausible.

This guy is maybe one step up from Jason La Confora, and many think his scoops are actually sourced from people in the kmow.

 

[Deus Irae]

The arrogant, chirpy “Breeze wood have 11 super bowls with Bellacheck” crowd had this coming though. There a handful of articles written last year, mainly by those beat writer / fan blogger hybrids claiming the 2020 season was proof that Brees > Brady.

The Rodgers honks still claim he's better than Brady.


"Some men you just can’t reach."

 

[1960Pats]

What I get a kick out of is that pathetic manner in which so many try defending BB at Brady's expense. How many times have we seen the "It's a team game!" defense, especially by a particular group of honks? And it's a team game, but no team's ever done what Brady has done, and the "team" was crapping out until Brady too over, and then crapped out the moment Brady left. So it's a team game, and that means Brady gets too much credit, but it's not about being a team game when that same group pimps the guy who's not even playing the game, and who's been a career mediocrity, to date, when he hasn't had Brady under center for him.

The similarities between Russell and Brady are noticeable. Both of them came to teams without any prior success and instantly helped turned them into winners, and they kept it that way until they left. The difference is that Russell was allowed to finish his career here. Brady was not.

 

[borg]

The difference is that Russell was allowed to finish his career here. Brady was not.

Lets fix this for you....
Per Brady's request, the Patriots relinquished contractual control and Tompa was allowed to reach his desired free agency and shop for talent-rich teams without out any constraints by NE or compensation owed to NE.

 

[Deus Irae]

The similarities between Russell and Brady are noticeable. Both of them came to teams without any prior success and instantly helped turned them into winners, and they kept it that way until they left. The difference is that Russell was allowed to finish his career here. Brady was not.

And, because of the way people dismiss certain types of "athleticism" in favor of others, Brady will end up getting sidelined for lesser players in post-career discussions, just as Russell has.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Looking in the rear view mirror, it's legit that some folks favored Peyton Manning over Brady early this decade. But once the 20 teens started racking up more Lombardis and more Brady career stats it was OVAH!
What's NOT understandable is the Brees > Brady and Rogers > Brady crowd these last 10 years. Flashy highlight plays and flashy season stats yes, but both these greats have crapped themselves consistently in the post season. NO GOAT comparison warranted.

 

[1960Pats]

And, because of the way people dismiss certain types of "athleticism" in favor of others, Brady will end up getting sidelined for lesser players in post-career discussions, just as Russell has.

In his day Russell was a very athletic 6'9" player. I think his athleticism and quickness served him well in his era. His ability as a high jumper also had to be helpful.

Brady was different in that he made up for physical limitations with a big brain. He could see and react properly to everything in front of him. And he did it better at the biggest moments.

So, the question has to be what is a bigger achievement, 11 of 13 NBA titles in the 50's to 70's or 7 of 20 NFL titles now? It's closer than the numbers might indicate considering that the SB is more difficult to get to and win.

 

[1960Pats]

Looking in the rear view mirror, it's legit that some folks favored Peyton Manning over Brady early this decade. But once the 20 teens started racking up more Lombardis and more Brady career stats it was OVAH!
What's NOT understandable is the Brees > Brady and Rogers > Brady crowd these last 10 years. Flashy highlight plays and flashy season stats yes, but both these greats have crapped themselves consistently in the post season. NO GOAT comparison warranted.

That's what's so amazing about Brady.
PEDton, Brees and Rodgers are all great QB's but they don't compare to Brady. The guy that the NYFL world proclaimed was easily the GOAT, Montana, has slightly more than half as many titles as TB12, who isn't even done playing yet.
The GOAT QB debate is dead and gone forever.

 

[Deus Irae]

In his day Russell was a very athletic 6'9" player. I think his athleticism and quickness served him well in his era. His ability as a high jumper also had to be helpful.

Brady was different in that he made up for physical limitations with a big brain. He could see and react properly to everything in front of him. And he did it better at the biggest moments.

So, the question has to be what is a bigger achievement, 11 of 13 NBA titles in the 50's to 70's or 7 of 20 NFL titles now? It's closer than the numbers might indicate considering that the SB is more difficult to get to and win.

But Russell's abilities have been dismissed because of the comparisons to Wilt and his athleticism, Russell's height, and Russell's shooting. I mean, G.O.A.T. conversations in basketball should always start at #2, just as in football and baseball, and similar to hockey, where the conversation starts at #4.

"Who's the best ever, after Brady?"
"Who's the best ever, after Russell?"
"Who's the best ever, after Ruth?"
"Who's the best ever, after Orr/Gretzky/Howe?"


But that doesn't happen in basketball, where Russell is usually all but ignored. And that's what I see happening to Brady. We already see the sort of groundwork we'd need for that (The two G.O.A.T.s nonsense, the G.O.A.T. v. B.O.A.T. crap, etc...).

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

In his day Russell was a very athletic 6'9" player. I think his athleticism and quickness served him well in his era. His ability as a high jumper also had to be helpful.

Brady was different in that he made up for physical limitations with a big brain. He could see and react properly to everything in front of him. And he did it better at the biggest moments.

So, the question has to be what is a bigger achievement, 11 of 13 NBA titles in the 50's to 70's or 7 of 20 NFL titles now? It's closer than the numbers might indicate considering that the SB is more difficult to get to and win.

I’d call it a wash or maybe a slight edge to Russell. You can’t possibly put someone ahead of Russell because he basically won every year…so it would be virtually impossible to outperform him.

But then the reality of the pre-expansion, pre-free agency era versus now. It’s hard to overstate how much harder it is now to stay atop the mountain. Just look at other sports pre-expansion era: Canadiens, Yankees, and Celtics were mega dynasties winning almost everything for a whole decade.

It’s also harder to do in football because of the single elimination format.

 

[Reubski23]

Will be interesting to see if the Bucs go no huddle much this year they rarely if ever went no-huddle. Another year with Brady as QB and these weapons - I can see them tearing teams a part this year.

 

[amfootball]

But Russell's abilities have been dismissed because of the comparisons to Wilt and his athleticism, Russell's height, and Russell's shooting. I mean, G.O.A.T. conversations in basketball should always start at #2, just as in football and baseball, and similar to hockey, where the conversation starts at #4.

"Who's the best ever, after Brady?"
"Who's the best ever, after Russell?"
"Who's the best ever, after Ruth?"
"Who's the best ever, after Orr/Gretzky/Howe?"


But that doesn't happen in basketball, where Russell is usually all but ignored. And that's what I see happening to Brady. We already see the sort of groundwork we'd need for that (The two G.O.A.T.s nonsense, the G.O.A.T. v. B.O.A.T. crap, etc...).

I don't think Jordan is put as the GOAT over Russell because of athleticism. I think it is more the era. Russell played when there were only a few teams and the league was not fully integrated in terms of black players being allowed to play. Jordan also transformed the game with his style of play as because of him teams moved away from the dominate center in favor of the 2/3 scorer/play maker. Every guy that has played the game since Jordan, has either tried to be him (Kobe) or tried to surpass him (Lebron and now KD).

In terms of Brady, he is the quintessential modern athlete as his career has spanned more than 2 decades in a sport where the average career is 4-5 years. We have been hearing forever how this guy or that guy is more talented but no one can put someone else over Brady because of his insane accomplishments. I do think in time, after Brady retires, you will hear it more when a transcendent talent like a Mahomes bursts on the scene but whoever it is, they will have to get reasonably close to Brady's accomplishments to jump him AND have the longevity which are insanely high bench marks. Jordan did a heck of a lot to surpass Russell for those that believe Jordan is the GOAT. Someone else will have to do that in football where again the careers are so short even with QBs playing longer.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

But Russell's abilities have been dismissed because of the comparisons to Wilt and his athleticism, Russell's height, and Russell's shooting. I mean, G.O.A.T. conversations in basketball should always start at #2, just as in football and baseball, and similar to hockey, where the conversation starts at #4.

"Who's the best ever, after Brady?"
"Who's the best ever, after Russell?"
"Who's the best ever, after Ruth?"
"Who's the best ever, after Orr/Gretzky/Howe?"


But that doesn't happen in basketball, where Russell is usually all but ignored. And that's what I see happening to Brady. We already see the sort of groundwork we'd need for that (The two G.O.A.T.s nonsense, the G.O.A.T. v. B.O.A.T. crap, etc...).

My father in-law has been a huge Lakers fan since the 50s and is adamant that Russell is the greatest player ever. I bring him up because so few pundits were actually alive during that time and clearly have not spent even a few hours contemplating that type of dominance and why era-adjustments are the only fair way to make an all-time list. And that’s especially true now when you could subtract Jordan, plug-in Kevin Durant, or maybe even James Harden, and project the 1990s Bulls might be as good, because their true FG efficiency would be off the charts.

Applying greatness from one era and projecting to another era always ends in absurd results like that. So the idea that Russell was 6’9” or his that players today would neutralize him, or his shooting style…couldn’t have less relevance to the argument.

I personally would put Russell or Kareem #1. Probably Russell, but Kareem is close. #3 is between Jordan and LeBron.

 

[sean10mm]

The thing about Russell is that he won back to back titles, AS A COACH, WHILE PLAYING AT AN ALL-STAR LEVEL STILL.

That's just next level.

 

[amfootball]

My father in-law has been a huge Lakers fan since the 50s and is adamant that Russell is the greatest player ever. I bring him up because so few pundits were actually alive during that time and clearly have not spent even a few hours contemplating that type of dominance and why era-adjustments are the only fair way to make an all-time list. And that’s especially true now when you could subtract Jordan, plug-in Kevin Durant, or maybe even James Harden, and project the 1990s Bulls might be as good, because their true FG efficiency would be off the charts.

Applying greatness from one era and projecting to another era always ends in absurd results like that. So the idea that Russell was 6’9” or his that players today would neutralize him, or his shooting style…couldn’t have less relevance to the argument.

I personally would put Russell or Kareem #1. Probably Russell, but Kareem is close. #3 is between Jordan and LeBron.

I would not have Lebron in my top 5.

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[Deus Irae]

“If you’ve watched me play, you know I can be a lot of in your face,” Suh wrote. “I’m a very direct person by nature. My job is entirely about imposing my will on others. So that bleeds into other aspects of my business. For a long time in my career, I was always just saying what I wanted to say. Never thinking about how I delivered the message. Everything changed when I got to Miami. I was in a strong, influential position. So I was just making my opinion known, regardless of how it impacted others. 2 years in, I realized this attitude was: Creating divisions on the team Pushing people away Putting me in a negative headspace.”

Ndamukong Suh admits his bad attitude caused problems in Miami, says he's grown since - ProFootballTalk

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I would not have Lebron in my top 5.

His career is a paradox.

 

[Deus Irae]