2021 NFL Free Agency/Trade News & Discussion: April Edition

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Which is why we need to fill the gaping hemorrhaging hole we have at QB

I agree. We will not leave this draft without our new qb.

 

[gobesmug]

Its not LBs job to stop a completion deep in DB territory. Taking away middle of the field and accompanying WR to S is quite good enough

LB going stride by stride in coverage with one of the fastest WRs is good enough for a little highlight, no?

He wasn't stride for stride for more then 2 steps then Hamler was pulling ahead until he had to stop for a terrible throw.

To his assignment point you made. If his assignment was mid zone and the coverage was supposed to be a cover 3 with a safety covering deep middle then would have a good point.

But from the clip it looked like the safety was in cover 2 and taking the outside Wr.

The terrible pass made Hamler not only completely stop but have to take a step back in order to be in position to make a catch attempt.

That stop allows not only the safety to slide into the middle, where he was beat, but allowed Uche to catch up.

The fact that Uche didn't let Hamler go past him but turned to try and make a competitive play shows his assignment must have been deep middle because he clearly knew the safety wasn't going to be there to stop Hamler.

Nothing wrong with a LB getting beat in a foot race by one of the fastest Wr in the country.

Like I said, he only was able to make the play because of poor QB play. If you want to say it should hustle on his part by not simply giving up, then I would agree with that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Let’s clear this up.

The patriots base defense has 5 dbs. So there is a front 6.

That front 6 is varied, complex, and uses many different combinations of players, playing different responsibilities.
The constant is 2 DTs. The other constant is one ILB.

This leaves 2 players on the edge whether you call them DE or OLB, and a 6th player that could really be any front 6 guy playing in any number of positions.

So essentially our base d is
5 Dbs
2 DTs (god, guy, Anderson, cowart, Adams, Davis)
Hightower
KVN (sometimes on the edge sometimes not)
Judon

and one other guy out of

Winovich, Uche, McMillan, Bentley, wise, or an extra dt playing outside over the T.

We can align HT KVN and Judon in many different positions and use a 6th player who is a run stopping lb, pass rusher, over sized DE, chase LB etc to the opponent, situation, play call etc.


This is why it is wrong to post a 3-4 or 4-3 lineup because that’s just not what we do.

It’s a 2-4 or 3-3 or 4-2 and it is interchangeably all of the above with dozens of variations of personnel alignment and responsibility.

Thank you. You have made similar posts previously, and this is great stuff. I am sure you are right and I try to adjust to this understanding when I watch the game.

Recognizing that, it is easier for most of us to communicate via 3-4 or 4-3 alignment (versus the '3-3 plus some other guys alignment' that the Pats actually use). So if you can bear with us that would be great too.

Finally if you could be so kind to split your posts to be 50% defensively minded, instead of 80% "Cam sucks" or "trade every pick to move up or all is lost", that would improve this board greatly.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Let me guess: this came out from the middle of your butt-cheeks and you just couldn't hold it in?

If i ignore the laughable attempt of misrepresenting Uche as a player - which i believe was just your TM grumpy routine - saying that he
“doesn't want to“ play inside - is beyond even your hatred standards.. and goes against your main agenda vs BB authoritarian

On that ZERO part though:

Thanks. I remember watching this clips last year pre-draft but couldn’t find it today.

Everything about Captain’s post was absurd, including the comment about Uche’s lack of coverage skills. His success covering tight ends during Senior Bowl week was one of the things that improved his draft stock in the eyes of scouts and execs.

 

[Patsgofor4]

He wasn't stride for stride for more then 2 steps then Hamler was pulling ahead until he had to stop for a terrible throw.

To his assignment point you made. If his assignment was mid zone and the coverage was supposed to be a cover 3 with a safety covering deep middle then would have a good point.

But from the clip it looked like the safety was in cover 2 and taking the outside Wr.

The terrible pass made Hamler not only completely stop but have to take a step back in order to be in position to make a catch attempt.

That stop allows not only the safety to slide into the middle, where he was beat, but allowed Uche to catch up.

The fact that Uche didn't let Hamler go past him but turned to try and make a competitive play shows his assignment must have been deep middle because he clearly knew the safety wasn't going to be there to stop Hamler.

Nothing wrong with a LB getting beat in a foot race by one of the fastest Wr in the country.

Like I said, he only was able to make the play because of poor QB play. If you want to say it should hustle on his part by not simply giving up, then I would agree with that.

I see your point to some extent but I also think it is important to point out that none of the other Pats 2020 linebackers would come close to breaking up that pass, even with the underthrown ball. In fact, I doubt that any LBs in recent memory would have broken up that pass, even Collins (Owen Daniels says hello, Jaime).

 

[Ring 6]

Thank you. You have made similar posts previously, and this is great stuff. I am sure you are right and I try to adjust to this understanding when I watch the game.

Recognizing that, it is easier for most of us to communicate via 3-4 or 4-3 alignment (versus the '3-3 plus some other guys alignment' that the Pats actually use). So if you can bear with us that would be great too.

Finally if you could be so kind to split your posts to be 50% defensively minded, instead of 80% "Cam sucks" or "trade every pick to move up or all is lost", that would improve this board greatly.

An only post about where the team is. There is one gaping, hemorrhaging hole that gets most attention right now.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. We will not leave this draft without our new qb.

I'm not as optimistic as you guys. I do expect us to trade up for a QB, but that is certainly not a sure thing.

Belichick might hope to trade for Jimmy, for Bridgewater, for Mariota, or for someone else.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I'm not as optimistic as you guys. I do expect us to trade up for a QB, but that is certainly not a sure thing.

Belichick might hope to trade for Jimmy, for Bridgewater, for Mariota, or for someone else.

what is the bigger gamble?

gamble 1: trade up for a qb that may or may not work out, but definitely will cost a ton of draft capital over multiple years! either way, the chances of a rookie qb contributing in year one is very slim.

gamble 2: take a second tier qb and know he is doing nothing for you in year one, and again may or but most likely not work out long term! But not cost draft capital and allow you to use picks to make your non qb positions better.

 

[mgteich]

what is the bigger gamble?

gamble 1: trade up for a qb that may or may not work out, but definitely will cost a ton of draft capital over multiple years! either way, the chances of a rookie qb contributing in year one is very slim.

gamble 2: take a second tier qb and know he is doing nothing for you in year one, and again may or but most likely not work out long term! But not cost draft capital and allow you to use picks to make your non qb positions better.

gamble one
first year production is irrelevant, not the measure of success

gamble 2
is irrelevant with respect to the quarterback position since the quarterback will never be our future at QB; we'll continue to look.

BOTTOM LINE
Your comparison is really with respect to non-quarterback positions. I agree that not drafting a top quarterback allows rthe resources to be used elsewhere. This is only fine if the team can compete for a championship with Cam, or with quarterback that they trade for.

 

[crownontherocks]

 

[Ring 6]

How did he do against pressure? You can keep pumping your guy. Just hope the pats stay away from him. Let someone else draft him. We shall see whose right.

This chart shows the bs that fields is a first qb is wrong. In fact he went beyond his first read more than any other qb in the draft, and more successfully.
If you click and open up the whole chart you will see Mac Jones is the one read qb and when it’s not there he’s in trouble.

 

[Ring 6]

what is the bigger gamble?

gamble 1: trade up for a qb that may or may not work out, but definitely will cost a ton of draft capital over multiple years! either way, the chances of a rookie qb contributing in year one is very slim.

gamble 2: take a second tier qb and know he is doing nothing for you in year one, and again may or but most likely not work out long term! But not cost draft capital and allow you to use picks to make your non qb positions better.

2 is a bigger gamble because it amounts to gambling you can win without a QB

 

[jah]

Let’s clear this up.

The patriots base defense has 5 dbs. So there is a front 6.

That front 6 is varied, complex, and uses many different combinations of players, playing different responsibilities.
The constant is 2 DTs. The other constant is one ILB.

This leaves 2 players on the edge whether you call them DE or OLB, and a 6th player that could really be any front 6 guy playing in any number of positions.

So essentially our base d is
5 Dbs
2 DTs (god, guy, Anderson, cowart, Adams, Davis)
Hightower
KVN (sometimes on the edge sometimes not)
Judon

and one other guy out of

Winovich, Uche, McMillan, Bentley, wise, or an extra dt playing outside over the T.

We can align HT KVN and Judon in many different positions and use a 6th player who is a run stopping lb, pass rusher, over sized DE, chase LB etc to the opponent, situation, play call etc.


This is why it is wrong to post a 3-4 or 4-3 lineup because that’s just not what we do.

It’s a 2-4 or 3-3 or 4-2 and it is interchangeably all of the above with dozens of variations of personnel alignment and responsibility.

Even though our defense only plays 1 or 2 ILB at once, I still think the depth at that position is a major problem.

In packages where we do use multiple ILB, I don't trust Bentley/McMillan/Hall, and then if we lose Hightower (or he fails to live up to his old reputation), we suddenly have a position with 0 good players. Those other ILB we have might be useful on obvious run downs, but then we're probably in an actual 7 man front which is outside the scope of this conversation.

You could say KVN is that ILB depth, but playing that role is what got him traded out of Detroit. He's better outside, and we'll need him there unless Uche/Winovich take on larger roles.

 

[Ring 6]

Even though our defense only plays 1 or 2 ILB at once, I still think the depth at that position is a major problem.

In packages where we do use multiple ILB, I don't trust Bentley/McMillan/Hall, and then if we lose Hightower (or he fails to live up to his old reputation), we suddenly have a position with 0 good players. Those other ILB we have might be useful on obvious run downs, but then we're probably in an actual 7 man front which is outside the scope of this conversation.

You could say KVN is that ILB depth, but playing that role is what got him traded out of Detroit. He's better outside, and we'll need him there unless Uche/Winovich take on larger roles.

Mcmillan is fine for that role.

 

[jah]

what is the bigger gamble?

gamble 1: trade up for a qb that may or may not work out, but definitely will cost a ton of draft capital over multiple years! either way, the chances of a rookie qb contributing in year one is very slim.

gamble 2: take a second tier qb and know he is doing nothing for you in year one, and again may or but most likely not work out long term! But not cost draft capital and allow you to use picks to make your non qb positions better.

In scenario 1, if you're just taking a QB early because he's a QB and he's supposed to be drafted early, I'd call that a bigger gamble. It's what stupid, desperate teams do and it's how they stay desperate.

If you're taking a QB early because your scouting team loves him, that's much more reasonable and something I can get on board with.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's the Worst feckin DL in Football. All 3 - ALL THREE - are grossly over-paid.

I want Guy & DaQuan Jones as my DTs, with an umbrella of Judon, Hightower, McMillan & KVN...Eric Wilson should've been part of this too...
Perhaps KJ Wright can now be enticed to switch coasts...

No. It's not the worst DL in Football. And no. ALL 3 aren't grossly overpaid. That's your ridiculous opinion that's not actually supported by FACT. Godchaux and Anderson were two of the best Run-Stopping D-linemen in the league last year. Run stopping was one of the biggest issues the Patriots had last year..

 

[DaBruinz]

I disagree. Collins as a rookie was much less bulked up than Collins a few years later.

Correct. Collins was just 250 lbs as a rookie. Uche was 245.. Though Uche is 2 inches shorter.

 

[crownontherocks]

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

This chart shows the bs that fields is a first qb is wrong. In fact he went beyond his first read more than any other qb in the draft, and more successfully.
If you click and open up the whole chart you will see Mac Jones is the one read qb and when it’s not there he’s in trouble.

Oh bull. The guy can’t handle pressure is horrible reading the field. Mac Jones is a lot more comfortable in the pocket. You like fields and i like jones for the pats. Neither might play for the pats but we shall see who turns out to be the better QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh bull. The guy can’t handle pressure is horrible reading the field. Mac Jones is a lot more comfortable in the pocket. You like fields and i like jones for the pats. Neither might play for the pats but we shall see who turns out to be the better QB.

These stats say that Jones is a one read QB who is terrible when he has to go to his second read and fields had to go to his second read twice as much and was way, way more successful when he did.

I know you like jones bit I am pointing out your liking of him isn’t based upon any real analysis because the number show the opposite of what you think.