DRAFT BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

[fightingirish595]

Been watching some Cam Bynum. I think theres upside there. Hes kinda stiff but there is a lot to like IMO

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@ QB

1. It is very likely Patriots will draft a QB this year not necessary bc of need or exceptional prospects but bc that is what they do.
Over last 20 years they drafted QB every other year (on avg) no matter the circumstances. The only question is how high.

Agreed. High, low, we'll take one. And probably be looking hard next year as well.

2. It is not likely (although possible) they will reach for a QB.
Lombardi, who is now beating Mac Jones drum did the same for Jimmy in 2014 (but on the inside). He was very nervous when Bill didn't want to take him in 1st (despite 5th y option benefit) although they all liked him and were determined to draft one of the top QBs. Lombardi was sure he wouldn't make it past HOU at 33. They took Easly at #29 despite 2 ACL tears in 3 yrs. So not exactly a sure thing long term blue chip player. After Carr went at #36 Jimmy was the last remaining they liked. Yet BB waited for almost 30 picks to take him with their own 62.

The dichotomy between those two picks ... If Jimmy pulls out that SB I wonder where that puts him among Bill's draft picks?

Some may say situation was different then since they had Tom (at 37) still going strong. That doesn't necessarily mean situation was/is much different for BB. He has a starter for 2021 for the value he felt good about. No matter what fans & media think of Cam i haven't seen one ounce of evidence BB doesn't see him as (possible) starter for 2021 or that he doesn't believe Cam can play “good enough“. What is different is that Cam is signed for 1y so there is no long term commitment. He is still 31 though (32 in May) and if he plays “good enough“ there is always an outside chance they might want to bring him back (at a price they believe has value).

Good point. I said mid-late season I'll welcome Cam back under the right circumstances and situation. He's a streaky guy that has lost some of his juice, both passing & running but still is worth a gamble imo. Until someone else is brought in Cam is the starter and not by accident or bc hes the last guy standing. Bill could have moved on from him, his style but brought him back.

So unless BB absolutely falls in love with certain QB in this class (id like to see the odds on that ) id guess he will be patient as always and wait for the opportunity.

Agreed. I think he'll spend two picks total to move up *if* we/he wants to move up. Next year's first, this year's second. Two seconds. Something like that. Right now it looks like QB's are going 1-4 imo. Atl is taking one or more likely imo, selling that pick for a ransom. I doubt Bill pays that. Two picks is hardly mortgaging our future but just taking a shot in a good class.

3. Many are arguing that he didn't invest so much in this roster to give it to Cam - so something bigger/better must be the answer at QB.
Id argue the opposite - he build the roster to be as little dependant on QB as possible. And he did it because he had the opportunity to do it
(he had the cap and players were available and willing to sign).

Agreed and good points. Right now the plan is set. Run the ball, target MOF/Seam/Shallow - take shots off PA, hopefully no TO. Obviously stop the run on defense was a point of emphasis.

4. Id guess drafting QB this year will again be about value and opportunity. Acc. to Lombardi they valued Carr, Jimmy, Manziel and Teddy B similarly.

I had it Carr, Jimmy, TD, JM - all 2nd round guys.

And if anything - this years NE QB draft should be less dramatic. They have no opportunity to draft one of the top 3. Evaluations of others are all over the place (and that might include #3). The one QB who might be available at #15 (Mac) is the one they will have best possible info of all on the things that really matter at QB. And if BB values f.e. Lance, Mac, Mills, Mond closer than most outsiders do (bc he would focus on what they can do not what they cannot do and on “good enough“ not “better“) it might be a long waiting game like with Jimmy.

BTW
If BB values Jimmy (2022), Mac and Mills similarly - like some evaluators do - going by presumed price tags - Jimmy in 2022 = 25.5M + 2022 2nd round pick; Mac #15 + 6M (2021+2022); Mills #46 + 3.4M (2021+2022) - Mills would be the value option at the moment. After the season you reassess and look for new best opportunities (that could include BBs top option Rodgers, more realistic Jimmy etc..)

Agreed. Whether it's Mills or w/e in the 2nd, trade back up in the late 2nd. I think we go that route > Jimmy or Mac/trade up for Mac.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Lots of biggest and stuff to make you think ...


1) Jimmy Garoppolo will have a chance, it appears, to beat back a challenge from the quarterback San Francisco drafts a month from tonight. The Niners, as of today, do not plan to trade Garoppolo before the season. An offer to blow them away could get Garoppolo—Carolina? New England?—but otherwise, Garoppolo and the new man will be in camp for the Niners in August.

2) Dueling Pro Days on Tuesday might provide a clue. For QB-seekers, what to do when the Pro Days of Mac Jones at Alabama and Justin Fields at Ohio State both happen on Tuesday? I hear the Niners will split the baby, with Lynch and Shanahan expected to attend the Jones workout, while assistant GM Adam Peters likely will lead a small delegation in Columbus to scout Fields. Not sure I would infer huge meaning to that, but it could be significant. How I view it: Jones could be the leader, but it’s not over.

"It leaves the Eagles with a 40 to 50 percent chance, at number 12, to get one of the four top receivers/tight ends in the draft to fill a need for a franchise pass-catcher if that’s how they choose to pick.
This year’s draft, with all the opt-outs and uncertainty after an abridged season and scouting restrictions, is a total crapshoot. Next year’s draft will be a return to normalcy, most likely, and a first-rounder next year should have higher value than a first-rounder this year. The possibility of having three first-round picks in the first potentially normal season and pre-draft season since 2019 could be franchise-changing for the Eagles, who have 20 picks in the next two drafts."

Bacon - opt-out prospects are one of the biggest question marks in the draft. Guys that opted out but could have come back vs guys that stayed or came back to play? That stuff will matter to certain teams/decision makers and maybe less for some but it'll be a topic at hand.

Not only are QB's going 1-3. They're going 1-4, no doubt imo. Atlanta is taking a QB or trading that pick for a haul ^^^ ... Cinci is on the clock for QB5 imo. We'll see, but I think they'll be getting a ton of calls.

So that means ...

One of Sewell, Pitts, Chase, Smith, Waddle, Parsons, Paye, Slater, Collins, Darrisaw, Horn, Surtain will be available for us. Or a small trade up for someone if we want. Maybe a few others, AVT & a couple prospects but let's not get too deep rn.

Very good position, if no Parsons, good chance Collins is there. Most likely no Pitts but a top 3 WR could fall in our laps. Any one of Chase, Waddle, Smith would be deadly with Smith/Henry getting most of the attention. Very good all around , NFL ready prospects will be available. Guys that will help on day 1.

Collins, Paye, Darrisaw & a few others are the likely board at that point. Maybe Horn, Slater.
The team as is rn is pretty good. On paper they actually look good imo. Everything is on paper rn but we're going to look a lot better after this draft. The QB's will push a lot blue chip talent within reach or in our laps.

If we don't go WR at 15 there are a lot of guys that meet our thresholds. Half way done with the PTP board and we'll have a lot of options rounds 2-4
5. Both Moores, St Brown, Milne, Collins, Smith-Marsette, Adams, Brown & a few others.

Trade up or down ...
Honestly this might be a very fun draft. I've seen some crazy things happen so I'm not ruling out or wouldn't mind a small trade up for a guy like Pitts, Chase, maybe a Sewell, Slater if the staff thinks it makes sense. I could a scenario where those guys are in reach and again I'm 100% down to trade a 2nd or 3rd if the opportunity presents itself. Pitts, Smith, Henry would be a nightmare for defenses. An absolute nightmare!! Anyway not to play all sides but Bill put us in a really good spot. 15 isn't ideal for us, I wish we were top 10 but it is what it is. Still a lot of flexibility. A small trade up, back or even out into 2022 seem likely as picking a prospect.

This team should be better after the draft. We've been very good at drafting OL, this year is heavy & deep. We're in reach to get a blue chip defensive talent. The draft is dripping with WR talent. Plenty of picks to move around. Which leads to believe we might secure our guy with a small trade up or trade ups throughout the draft. Even if it's not a QB.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@reamer @patfanken @KontradictioN and anyone else that wants to chime in feel free.

Passing downs ...

OLB Wino
9T Paye
4i God/Guy
3T Wise
OLB Judon
LB HT
Box Dugger
DB Gilly, JC, DMC, JJ/Mills

Or ..

Big Dime
OLB HT
3T Wise
4i God/Guy
OLB Judon
LB Parsons
Box Dugger
DB Gilly, JC, DMC, JJ, Mills

Also let's say for shiggles we take Parsons at 15 and Paye is available early 20's (19-25). Would you package 46 + 96 + 139 + future 2nd & 6th to get Paye?? Realistically that would be enough. Let's say we trade we Wash, Chi or Tenn.

Bigg Dime
OLB Judon/Wino
9T Paye
2i/4i God/Guy
3T Wise
OLB HT/Parsons
LB Parsons/HT
Box Dugger
DB Gilly, JC, JJ, Mills

I could add Uche, Jennings but I'm guessing these are getting first looks. All this assumes we don't get or go after a QB or WR early. I think Paye goes top 20 but just throwing it out there. We really don't have a guy like him on the team. Same can be said about Parsons but if HT is healthy he can provide those qualities. Having both (Paye/Parsons) , also two of HT & Parson would be unbelievable. Reminiscent of Jones/HT.

Long shot and we're giving up a lot but if the situation presents itself, yes, no? We're adding a ton of need, speed & athleticism to the F7. Think about the looks we can create with these two.

Maybe go WR (speed) at 122 (Smith-Marsette, Rodgers, Powell, Terry)

Try to trade back for Collins. Use those additional picks to come back for Paye?

This is kind of what I just threw out there. First 10-12 picks could be dominated by offense. We could potentially come out with very scary looking defense. Goodness the multiple pressure looks we could run.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Had a high 2nd on Hunter and will have a similar grade on Oweh. Big time upside as a run defender. Can knife, Chase. He's really good play/back side, at times can keep his outside shoulder clean but it's definitely an area of improvement. Literally just started playing a few years ago. Lots of projection like Hunter or Chandler Jones. Needs work everywhere but he's twitched up, strong and takes an efficient path to the QB. Lots of bend/ability to get flat. He needs experience and coaching but the traits & ability are definitely there.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Possible S convert? I never thought Adebo would test this well but still think he might be a possible S convert. Physicality, instincts & ball skills are there. Idk I've been watching him for years and still have mixed feelings personally in terms of his outlook. I think he needs a lot in terms of coaching/system but I guess that can be said about 99.9% Very talented, smart guy.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Trey Lance's Pro day should get more hype imo. Great throws on pretty much every part of the field. Nice out route throws. deep accuracy. Great shape.

Matt Waldman compared him to Steve McNair. You can't help but see Josh Allen and hope for what we just saw last year. I'm extremely impressed with what he did at 19! Decision making, play making ability, accuracy-arm talent, poise-pocket presence & smarts at such at young age.

Tough, smart kid. You see him working on his mechanics all the time. I know for a fact he's been working on his back leg, front foot & keeping that front shoulder tucked in tight. The pre snap calls & changes at the los.

Super impressive and sitting behind Cam for a year, half a year wouldn't hurt either. Hopefully he lands in a good spot. I hope he reaches his peak bc that will be fun to watch. Another thing that will be cool will be watching him and his younger bro compete. They'll both be in the league at the same time, at a young age. Pretty cool.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I might have mentioned this once or twice. Seriously though today's QB's are a lot more scheme reliant (Baker, Murray, Goff) although some have a more versatile skill set. Just a different type of guy all together. I don't see it as good or bad just what it is.
Anyway something to consider. I knew this fan base would have a hard time moving on from Brady. Most have only seen him. I've mentioned this for years, nothing new. It's here & now though. If you look at the QB's that getting drafted high, winning QB's etc they're more system guys as opposed to straight pocket passers. One guy I missed badly on was Rosen. Not quite Mallett quicksand feet but he just couldn't react quick enough & didn't have the mobility to move in the pocket. You have to be able to move today. At least enough to eat up unaccounted for yards.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Paye is another one that can be a really good all around run defender. Play/back side, straight up, outside contain. Like Oweh big time cornering ability, lots of bend, efficient steps to the QB. Lots of strength, COD & flexibility. We absolutely have to have a strong opinion(s) on him considering how often we've drafted there recently.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Matt Waldman compared him to Steve McNair. You can't help but see Josh Allen and hope for what we just saw last year. I'm extremely impressed with what he did at 19! Decision making, play making ability, accuracy-arm talent, poise-pocket presence & smarts at such at young age.

Tough, smart kid. You see him working on his mechanics all the time. I know for a fact he's been working on his back leg, front foot & keeping that front shoulder tucked in tight. The pre snap calls & changes at the los.

Super impressive and sitting behind Cam for a year, half a year wouldn't hurt either. Hopefully he lands in a good spot. I hope he reaches his peak bc that will be fun to watch. Another thing that will be cool will be watching him and his younger bro compete. They'll both be in the league at the same time, at a young age. Pretty cool.

Yup I can certainly see the Allen vibes. If we has a development like Allen we should do anything to get him at 2/4. if he's there. He fits our scheme really well, opens the playbook and can pretty much do any throw we want. He and his qb coach did some throws from nfl qb needy teams and their schemes at his pro day to show he can make this type of throws. That was smart.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yup I can certainly see the Allen vibes. If we has a development like Allen we should do anything to get him at 2/4. if he's there. He fits our scheme really well, opens the playbook and can pretty much do any throw we want. He and his qb coach did some throws from nfl qb needy teams and their schemes at his pro day to show he can make this type of throws. That was smart.

Agreed on the bolded. I'm sure a few prospects will do that to highlight certain attributes but smart nonetheless for sure. I know his QB coach, Quincy Avery is in high demand and been doing some work with big time QB's. Everything I've read and heard is he's pretty good about challenging his guys and has do so with Lance by all accounts. Again esp working on his mechanics. The fact that Lance has been working with an OL coach as well is nice to hear.

I wonder if their plan is or hoping to have Jimmy for a year while Lance/Fields sit?


Who knows? Lance has been a pleasure to watch though. One of the reasons I love college ball. So tough, exciting and fun to watch.

 

[Love The Drake]

I

Agreed on the bolded. I'm sure a few prospects will do that to highlight certain attributes but smart nonetheless for sure. I know his QB coach, Quincy Avery is in high demand and been doing some work with big time QB's. Everything I've read and heard is he's pretty good about challenging his guys and has do so with Lance by all accounts. Again esp working on his mechanics. The fact that Lance has been working with an OL coach as well is nice to hear.

I wonder if their plan is or hoping to have Jimmy for a year while Lance/Fields sit?


Who knows? Lance has been a pleasure to watch though. One of the reasons I love college ball. So tough, exciting and fun to watch.

he’s coming home for Harry and a sack of footballs.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Even with Andrews he'll be high on my board. Tested out this world compared to expectations. Him, ****erson, Meinerz, Green & Morrissey all tested well and fit our type when it comes to that stuff.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I

he’s coming home for Harry and a sack of footballs.

I'm all for Harry & a 4th or 3rd if Bill really wants Jimmy but I'm not overpaying. Mentioned this a bunch but SF loved Harry pre-draft. They might still have feelings. Plus everyone knows SF is taking a QB, Jimmy's days are numbered. And as one can imagine he's not happy about a young QB coming in. He's out of there.

 

[BTTA]

I'm all for Harry & a 4th or 3rd if Bill really wants Jimmy but I'm not overpaying. Mentioned this a bunch but SF loved Harry pre-draft. They might still have feelings. Plus everyone knows SF is taking a QB, Jimmy's days are numbered. And as one can imagine he's not happy about a young QB coming in. He's out of there.

He'd have to redo his contract prior to a trade to the Pats, correct, because of cap room? Or are teams given a grace period to redo a contract after a trade?