Why the BB vs Brady argument is unfair

[PatsFanInVa]

I think sometimes Conan the Conqueror gets in the way of Conan the Barbarian.

 

[Doctor DDS]

But it's not premature. We are not going to have that many seasons to evaluate them given Brady is 43. This season was always going to be heavily scrutinized no matter which way it went. The fact that it got so lopsided with the Pats having a losing season for the first time since 2000 and Brady is in the conf. champ game just makes it seem over the top but the analysis is fair for this season. It will be further analyzed next season.

So by this logic it is obvious that Phil Jackson was much more important than Michael Jordan. Phil went on to multiple championships after leaving the Bulls while Jordan struggled with Washington. Context does not matter at all- the teams they went to did not matter - just the wins and losses.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

BB drafted Brady at a position of value, there's a good chance if he didn't draft him Brady would have gone undrafted.

BB drafted Tom Brady.

Nobody uses draft picks lightly, if he didn't want him he wouldn't have drafted him or tried to barter for his services afterwards as an UDFA.

He also had Brady on the bench for a full season, promoted him to second string, and then gave Bledsoe a 10 year contract. This can be argued either way.

 

[Wozzy]

He also had Brady on the bench for a full season, promoted him to second string, and then gave Bledsoe a 10 year contract. This can be argued either way.

Bledsoe’s contract was being negotiated long before BB arrived... read Michael Holley’s book. It was also crafted so that he was easily traded. You guys will do anything to take any credit away from Bill... it’s almost as if a bias exists.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's a player's game.

~ Bill Belichick

Boom. Nuff said. Conversation over. The man himself even admitted the QB is the more important piece to the puzzle. That shouldn’t take away anything Bill has done here as a coach. It’s just common sense.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bledsoe’s contract was being negotiated long before BB arrived... read Michael Holley’s book. It was also crafted so that he was easily traded. You guys will do anything to take any credit away from Bill... it’s almost as if a bias exists.

I said you can make an argument either way. Trying to assess Bill’s view on Brady in 2000 tends to polarize opinions and cause people to take extreme stances that either Bill was playing 5D chess or Bill was just really, really lucky by winning a scratch ticket. Neither is an accurate take.

Bill stuck with Brady in 2001 after Bledsoe was cleared to play, and that’s more than enough for me to praise him for a great and gutsy decision. At the time, I was among those scratching my head about why the team’s most esteemed player was benched.

I don’t really get the obsession with trying to either credit or discredit Bill for the draft pick itself either. The draft is full of chance. Bill made a good risk:reward pick at that point in the draft; it doesn’t mean he knew Brady would be great; it doesn’t mean he was a lucky fool either.

But the decision of keeping Brady over Bledsoe in 2001, when Bill had more time to assess Brady’s potential based on actual performance, is the one that deserves more attention and praise, rather than trying to assign genius or doofus points to him for the draft pick itself.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I said you can make an argument either way. Trying to assess Bill’s view on Brady in 2000 tends to polarize opinions and cause people to take extreme stances that either Bill was playing 5D chess or Bill was just really, really lucky by winning a scratch ticket. Neither is an accurate take.

Bill stuck with Brady in 2001 after Bledsoe was cleared to play, and that’s more than enough for me to praise him for a great and gutsy decision. At the time, I was among those scratching my head about why the team’s most esteemed player was benched.

I don’t really get the obsession with trying to either credit or discredit Bill for the draft pick itself either. The draft is full of chance. Bill made a good risk:reward pick at that point in the draft; it doesn’t mean he knew Brady would be great; it doesn’t mean he was a lucky fool either.

But the decision of keeping Brady over Bledsoe in 2001, when Bill had more time to assess Brady’s potential based on actual performance, is the one that deserves more attention and praise, rather than trying to assign genius or doofus points to him for the draft pick itself.

It was clear to me in 2001 that Brady was the guy. I had enough of Bledsoe mistakes and chokes. Brady made the plays when he had to most of the time.

 

[brdmaverick]

Maybe because the argument is how good of a HC is Belichick without Brady and since he wasn't HC for those 2 championships in NY, they kinda don't really count?

I see it as conveniently leaving out relevant data to fit a narrative.

 

[brdmaverick]

So by this logic it is obvious that Phil Jackson was much more important than Michael Jordan. Phil went on to multiple championships after leaving the Bulls while Jordan struggled with Washington. Context does not matter at all- the teams they went to did not matter - just the wins and losses.

Great counter example, touché....a really thinker

 

[reesebobby]

Outsider looking in. Bill is a good coach that brady made seem great. Reid with mahomes for 20 years is a crazy genius. Reid with alex smith is the coach that cant win the big one.

 

[Wozzy]

I said you can make an argument either way. Trying to assess Bill’s view on Brady in 2000 tends to polarize opinions and cause people to take extreme stances that either Bill was playing 5D chess or Bill was just really, really lucky by winning a scratch ticket. Neither is an accurate take.

Bill stuck with Brady in 2001 after Bledsoe was cleared to play, and that’s more than enough for me to praise him for a great and gutsy decision. At the time, I was among those scratching my head about why the team’s most esteemed player was benched.

I don’t really get the obsession with trying to either credit or discredit Bill for the draft pick itself either. The draft is full of chance. Bill made a good risk:reward pick at that point in the draft; it doesn’t mean he knew Brady would be great; it doesn’t mean he was a lucky fool either.

But the decision of keeping Brady over Bledsoe in 2001, when Bill had more time to assess Brady’s potential based on actual performance, is the one that deserves more attention and praise, rather than trying to assign genius or doofus points to him for the draft pick itself.

I'll agree to some degree, the backstory says he sent his QB coach to scout two QB's in the entire 2000 draft class. On average some 1000+ players enter their names into the NFL draft hat, roughly 200 get jobs. I don't see luck at all with the use of draft picks. You're giving someone a job that will guarantee them hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, nothing about it is done carelessly or without thought.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Brady is way more important. Belichick sucks at drafting. League worst drafting since 2013. He is a great coach. But handicaps himself with awful drafting.

 

[jmt57]

Brady is way more important. Belichick sucks at drafting. League worst drafting since 2013. He is a great coach. But handicaps himself with awful drafting.

Okay, so let's all only look at the bad drafts, and ignore the good years to come to a conclusion that "Belichick sucks at drafting".

A gentle reminder of some players drafted during the Belichick regime:

• Tom Brady
• Matt Light
• Logan Mankins
• Richard Seymour
• Vince Wilfork
• Rob Gronkowski
• Asante Samuel
• Nate Solder
• Dan Koppen
• Chandler Jones
• Devin McCourty
• Julian Edelman
• Dont'a Hightower
• Jamie Collins
• Sebastian Vollmer
• Jerod Mayo
• Deion Branch
• Marcus Cannon
• Matt Cassel
• Ty Warren
• Ben Watson
• Joe Thuney
• Patrick Chung
• Stephen Gostkowski
• James White
• Logan Ryan
• Shaq Mason

The last few drafts have been abysmal; there is no dispute.

But to imply that BB "sucks at drafting" is an overstatement that sounds like either contrived sports talk radio hyperbole, or a spoiled entitled fan out of touch with reality.

 

[Calhoun44]

I think BB would say Brady was more important on a game-to-game basis. Players play the game. BB built those teams, the game plans,, and more or less handed it off to Brady to take them to the winner's circle...six times. They needed each other to win SIX Super Bowls.

The same people who can't appreciate that now likely didn't appreciate it then either. So why argue with them? Let them wallow in regret.



And Led Zeppelin was the best band...

Umm, Black Sabbath says "hi"

 

[Calhoun44]

Its very rare that you win a Super Bowl with guys like that and the NFL has changed to a passing game.

Nick Foles

 

[SteveBsFan]

It is pretty amazing that Brady in his first season out of NE with no off-season is in the conf champ again.

Is it, though? LeBron went from yearly NBA finalist to a losing record when alone then winning a championship with another stacked roster.

Brady went to a team with 3 amazing receivers and one of the GOAT TE, a thousand yard rusher, and a really solid defense yet won 1 less regular season game than his final season with BB. A team featuring arguably the worst receiving crew we've seen on the team for a long time (until that was surpassed this season)

Now I know all the football variables. He had no pre-season on a brand new team. New coaching staff. It's much harder for a QB to jump into that situation and win than it is an NBA player.

In no way am I implying Brady is anything less than he is. We all know his greatness. And I'm not even sure I'm making a point other than we all know if BB coached that TB roster, they'd easily win 13-15 games. We also know that if BB were on the Pats this season, they'd have at least a winning record (those receivers are still bad bad though)

Personally, I think if Brady joined another decent roster like maybe the Colts back in the day, there is a very good chance the Pats and BB still would have found a way to win a few championships and Brady may have also picked up a few.

I guess I'm just tired of people acting like one carried the other. They're both great and we got to witness a once in a lifetime perfect storm of greatness combination.

 

[Biffins]

Alright, we all know the trendy storyline all season has been..........who will fair better "Brady vs Belichick"?
It's as if the outcome will finally decide the age old debate of who was the bigger contributor to the Pats success, Brady or Belichick?

It's as if Pats fans have to decide if they are Team Brady or Team Belichick and you must root for one and against the other. That is completely false. Let's be happy to root for both! I am purely in the camp of rooting for the Pats and Brady. If push came to shove and someone said, well, in the Brady vs BB debate do you at least favor one side over the other (even if very slightly)? Well, if push came to shove, I guess I would slightly be on the side that Brady was slightly more of a contributor to the team's success than BB BUT THEY WERE BOTH REALLY IMPORTANT!

Ok, so now that I've established that I would be more for Brady (even if slightly) in this age old debate, I still think the argument is VERY UNFAIR against BB.

1.) The trendy stat is now.....Brady has 2 playoff victories without BB, but BB only has 1 without Brady
This drives me nuts. Should we just not even consider the two Super Bowl titles that BB was a major factor with the Giants. Why does that conveniently get thrown out in the trash. The guy was friggin carried off the field by his team. So if there was any doubts about his contributions to the team, that should end it right there.

2.) Environment and culture...sure, Brady no longer has BB in his ear today, but Brady is still taking the experience and mentorship that BB provided with him to TB. So to some degree, Brady's success in TB is still attributable to BB. I mean, do we really think that all of the QBs the Browns selected over the years were complete garbage? NO, it was the environment and lack of guidance/leadership that I'm sure was the downfall for some. BB provided a positive culture for Brady that allowed him to succeed. Sure, it wasn't all BB. Tom deserves most of the credit ,but we can't overlook the fact that BB did play a role in his development.

Ok. So Bill is a great DC and Tom is the best QB and NFL player ever. Argument closed. Happy?

 

[Biffins]

Nick Foles

That was just an aberration. A HC deliberately sabotaging his team to stroke his own ego by benching his best CB.

 

[Biffins]

Is it, though? LeBron went from yearly NBA finalist to a losing record when alone then winning a championship with another stacked roster.

Brady went to a team with 3 amazing receivers and one of the GOAT TE, a thousand yard rusher, and a really solid defense yet won 1 less regular season game than his final season with BB. A team featuring arguably the worst receiving crew we've seen on the team for a long time (until that was surpassed this season)

Now I know all the football variables. He had no pre-season on a brand new team. New coaching staff. It's much harder for a QB to jump into that situation and win than it is an NBA player.

In no way am I implying Brady is anything less than he is. We all know his greatness. And I'm not even sure I'm making a point other than we all know if BB coached that TB roster, they'd easily win 13-15 games. We also know that if BB were on the Pats this season, they'd have at least a winning record (those receivers are still bad bad though)

Personally, I think if Brady joined another decent roster like maybe the Colts back in the day, there is a very good chance the Pats and BB still would have found a way to win a few championships and Brady may have also picked up a few.

I guess I'm just tired of people acting like one carried the other. They're both great and we got to witness a once in a lifetime perfect storm of greatness combination.

Yes enough of people acting like one carried the other. Come on people!!!

BTW Tom carried BIll (both the GM and the HC)

 

[Biffins]

It seems many here have fully embraced a cult mentality.

We are not a cult. I only have 10 candles on my Tom Brady altar.