Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If tonight’s game had featured Brady and Patriots coaches versus the Washington Football Team, this would be the summary right now:

• Washington came into the game having allowed an average of just 191 passing yards, 3rd in DVOA, 3rd in opponent passer rating. Thy hadn’t allowed over 17 points in their last six games and over 23 just once in their last eleven games.
• The 381 passing yards were double the average amount of passing yards.
• Belichick came up with a series of brilliant packages, including an exotic 6-man OL and used a variety of wide receiver combos, rotating Antonio Brown and Tyler Johnson depending on the matchups.
• Credit the coaching staff for breaking down film and finding some major weaknesses and tendencies in the Washington secondary.
• Josh McDaniels called a brilliant game that included a 36-yard run by Brown and a well designed screen pass to Fournette for 22-yards. He also schemed Brown for a wide open touchdown pass.
• They were able to compensate for the big loss of Alex Cappa by using their unique roster depth and next man up philosophy.
• Rob Gronkowski was used mainly as a blocker and decoy as Belichick used a variety of intelligent ways to maximize his value.
• Credit Tom Brady for executing the gameplan to near perfection, despite a few off target throws. Brady was crisp and efficient in carrying out McDaniels’ scheme.

You know this is pretty much what everyone would be saying. Instead, because it wasn’t Belichick, the summary is that Brady played great (coaches not really given much credit.)

Silly that for all these years, many of us truly believed that Brady was the greatest at executing a gameplan to perfection and maximized the large coaching advantages the Patriots organization gave him.

How can anyone watch the Bucs and actually believe there’s ample truth to that? Sure, Brady has some great receivers, but his command, decision making, accuracy, confidence, pre-snap reads, presumed preparation/film study...they are all the same.

The Bucs offense just played in ten degree weather against a top passing defense and put up 500+ yards. There wasn’t one Brady pass that even had a chance of being intercepted. Brady dissected this defense and made some huge clutch throws down the stretch.

Byron Leftwich is the OC.

 

[catent]

If tonight’s game had featured Brady and Patriots coaches versus the Washington Football Team, this would be the summary right now:

• Washington came into the game having allowed an average of just 191 passing yards, 3rd in DVOA, 3rd in opponent passer rating. Thy hadn’t allowed over 17 points in their last six games and over 23 just once in their last eleven games.
• The 381 passing yards were double the average amount of passing yards.
• Belichick came up with a series of brilliant packages, including an exotic 6-man OL and used a variety of wide receiver combos, rotating Antonio Brown and Tyler Johnson depending on the matchups.
• Credit the coaching staff for breaking down film and finding some major weaknesses and tendencies in the Washington secondary.
• Josh McDaniels called a brilliant game that included a 36-yard run by Brown and a well designed screen pass to Fournette for 22-yards. He also schemed Brown for a wide open touchdown pass.
• They were able to compensate for the big loss of Alex Cappa by using their unique roster depth and next man up philosophy.
• Rob Gronkowski was used mainly as a blocker and decoy as Belichick used a variety of intelligent ways to maximize his value.
• Credit Tom Brady for executing the gameplan to near perfection, despite a few off target throws. Brady was crisp and efficient in carrying out McDaniels’ scheme.

You know this is pretty much what everyone would be saying. Instead, because it wasn’t Belichick, the summary is that Brady played great (coaches not really given much credit.)

Silly that for all these years, many of us truly believed that Brady was the greatest at executing a gameplan to perfection and maximized the large coaching advantages the Patriots organization gave him.

How can anyone watch the Bucs and actually believe there’s ample truth to that? Sure, Brady has some great receivers, but his command, decision making, accuracy, confidence, pre-snap reads, presumed preparation/film study...they are all the same.

The Bucs offense just played in ten degree weather against a top passing defense and put up 500+ yards. There wasn’t one Brady pass that even had a chance of being intercepted. Brady dissected this defense and made some huge clutch throws down the stretch.

Byron Leftwich is the OC.

Think you're barking up the wrong tree, Ice.

People really liked Brady when he was here. Our fans held him in extremely high regard. When our offense performed well against top defenses, people lauded Brady's performance and saluted him as the GOAT.

Yes, credit was given to Belichick and McD (as they rightfully deserved), but it was never at Brady's expense.

Brady is a damn good quarterback and the vast majority of Patriots' fans know that.

 

[lancerman]

Brady has more playoff wins all time vs the NFC than Drew Brees

 

[amfootball]

Brady has more playoff wins all time vs the NFC than Drew Brees

Lol. Awesome stat!

 

[amfootball]

If tonight’s game had featured Brady and Patriots coaches versus the Washington Football Team, this would be the summary right now:

• Washington came into the game having allowed an average of just 191 passing yards, 3rd in DVOA, 3rd in opponent passer rating. Thy hadn’t allowed over 17 points in their last six games and over 23 just once in their last eleven games.
• The 381 passing yards were double the average amount of passing yards.
• Belichick came up with a series of brilliant packages, including an exotic 6-man OL and used a variety of wide receiver combos, rotating Antonio Brown and Tyler Johnson depending on the matchups.
• Credit the coaching staff for breaking down film and finding some major weaknesses and tendencies in the Washington secondary.
• Josh McDaniels called a brilliant game that included a 36-yard run by Brown and a well designed screen pass to Fournette for 22-yards. He also schemed Brown for a wide open touchdown pass.
• They were able to compensate for the big loss of Alex Cappa by using their unique roster depth and next man up philosophy.
• Rob Gronkowski was used mainly as a blocker and decoy as Belichick used a variety of intelligent ways to maximize his value.
• Credit Tom Brady for executing the gameplan to near perfection, despite a few off target throws. Brady was crisp and efficient in carrying out McDaniels’ scheme.

You know this is pretty much what everyone would be saying. Instead, because it wasn’t Belichick, the summary is that Brady played great (coaches not really given much credit.)

Silly that for all these years, many of us truly believed that Brady was the greatest at executing a gameplan to perfection and maximized the large coaching advantages the Patriots organization gave him.

How can anyone watch the Bucs and actually believe there’s ample truth to that? Sure, Brady has some great receivers, but his command, decision making, accuracy, confidence, pre-snap reads, presumed preparation/film study...they are all the same.

The Bucs offense just played in ten degree weather against a top passing defense and put up 500+ yards. There wasn’t one Brady pass that even had a chance of being intercepted. Brady dissected this defense and made some huge clutch throws down the stretch.

Byron Leftwich is the OC.

Leftwich is interviewing for the HC opening in Atlanta. That's what one season of the GOAT playing for you will do for your career.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Think you're barking up the wrong tree, Ice.

People really liked Brady when he was here. Our fans held him in extremely high regard. When our offense performed well against top defenses, people lauded Brady's performance and saluted him as the GOAT.

Yes, credit was given to Belichick and McD (as they rightfully deserved), but it was never at Brady's expense.

Brady is a damn good quarterback and the vast majority of Patriots' fans know that.

I‘m not singling out our fanbase. That would have been the national perception too. It would have been the take from most sports writers or fans. And yes, I agree that Patriots fans have always appreciated Brady, even if they’ve overvalued coaching.

My point is more about the perception that in New England from 2001-19. a dominant offensive effort was always perceived to be due to superior coaching, effort, scheme, etc in a way that’s starkly disproportionate to every other team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think this year we learned he is very thinned skin and unable to admit to any of his short comings. The Patriot Way turned into the Bill Excuse Machine.

You have got to be kidding me with this take.

 

[crawhammer]

I think this year we learned he is very thinned skin and unable to admit to any of his short comings. The Patriot Way turned into the Bill Excuse Machine.

He's not kidding at all. But I think we learned Belichick is very thinned skinned and unable to admit any shortcomings a long time ago. It's just that it's been worse this season because all of his personnel blunders came home to roost without Brady there to clean up the mess.

 

[Hyped]

So what he had no offseason and more importantly he’s 43 it’s not like he’s in his prime so judging Brady now is wrong anyways

He had far more off season work than Cam did. He started visiting Leftwich's house in late March....Cam didn't even get here until June and had to work with rookie TE's and a sub par WR core not including Edelman.

 

[Tony2046]

Brady and Leftwich are firing on all cylinders right now. All reports indicate the Bucs have given Brady the autonomy to pre-select the plays Leftwich will have at his disposal for a given matchup. It only took 20 years in the league for someone to figure out that Brady's the real genius.

Imagine that it only took 20 seconds to realize that you're a troll.

 

[Brady6]

The only thing I would say to you is that two years ago at the Super Bowl, when Bill was putting on a coaching clinic against one of the bright young coaches in the league, nobody questioned him.I highly doubt that in two years, his coaching has diminished.He needs players, just like every coach.

So are you saying the general manager is the problem?

 

[ashley]

I'll say that there is no other coach that could have won 7 games this year with the talent that we have on our roster. We definitely need an upgrade at QB, WR and the front 7.

 

[State]

I'll say that there is no other coach that could have won 7 games this year with the talent that we have on our roster. We definitely need an upgrade at QB, WR and the front 7.

Add TE. Those rookies showed up almost never.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

You're not serious.

I don't care what Flutie did in the CFL. The league's a circus act. Any those teams Flutie played for would have gone 0-16 in the NFL.

Flutie played in 22 games (13 starts) for the Patriots, he completed 48% of his pass attempts with 11 TD's, 14 INT's and QBR of 61. He was awful.

Totally serious.

Take a look at Steve Young's early numbers in the NFL. Or Elway's. And look at the numbers of the QB's he beat in those games in '88. Marino, Esiason, Kreig etc. Not impressive.

How did Flutie win when Ramsey didn't? Grogan did not light it up as a rookie.

You apparently agree with Berry and later Phillips' decisions to bench the guy who won all those games to get you to the brink of the playoffs. And you agree that it was better to have no quarterback, and play in front of the kind of home crowds then that we're having today in the middle of a pandemic, and stink.

You sound like a card carrying Bledsoe should have been put back in in '01 guy. Brady? Four picks in one game, sacked twelve times in the two Bills games, four times in two other games. A virtual rookie vs. a nine year veteran?

So Warren Moon sucked too. And Flutie's numbers with the Bills are a mirage. Or he just benefited from the Bills' 'system'.

 

[crawhammer]

I'll say that there is no other coach that could have won 7 games this year with the talent that we have on our roster. We definitely need an upgrade at QB, WR and the front 7.

Since when is 7 wins any good? Anthony Lynn won 7 games with a rookie quarterback after a 3-9 start. Belichick won 7 games with a former league MVP and all pro special teams.

 

[ashley]

Since when is 7 wins any good? Anthony Lynn won 7 games with a rookie quarterback after a 3-9 start. Belichick won 7 games with a former league MVP and all pro special teams.

Anthony Lyn wouldn't have won 2 games with the Pats this year. Lets not try and compare Anthony Lynn to Bill.

 

[crawhammer]

Totally serious.

Take a look at Steve Young's early numbers in the NFL. Or Elway's. And look at the numbers of the QB's he beat in those games in '88. Marino, Esiason, Kreig etc. Not impressive.

How did Flutie win when Ramsey didn't? Grogan did not light it up as a rookie.

You apparently agree with Berry and later Phillips' decisions to bench the guy who won all those games to get you to the brink of the playoffs. And you agree that it was better to have no quarterback, and play in front of the kind of home crowds then that we're having today in the middle of a pandemic, and stink.

You sound like a card carrying Bledsoe should have been put back in in '01 guy. Brady? Four picks in one game, sacked twelve times in the two Bills games, four times in two other games. A virtual rookie vs. a nine year veteran?

So Warren Moon sucked too. And Flutie's numbers with the Bills are a mirage. Or he just benefited from the Bills' 'system'.

Bledsoe was a stiff and a choke artist but he was a way better NFL quarterback than Doug flippin Flutie. You're bringing up names that aren't helping your argument. If you want to argue Flutie was better than Hugh Millen or Tony Eason then maybe I'll listen.

 

[crawhammer]

Anthony Lyn wouldn't have won 2 games with the Pats this year. Lets not try and compare Anthony Lynn to Bill.

But Lynn didn't have Jake Bailey or Matthew Slater.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[ashley]

But Lynn didn't have Jake Bailey or Matthew Slater.

lol, very true...that was good.