OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Counting your chickens too soon.

Evans and Godwin are every bit as good as Metcalf and Lockett. Howard is a damn fine TE. Fournette can rush and receive the same as Carson.

The Pats kept up with Meyers, Byrd, Edelman, Harry and Sony and Burkie.

Evans and Godwin are supremely talented. Honestly I think Wilson makes his receivers look better than they are; if they have speed, Wilson gets them the ball. The Patriots offense is so much different, and I think you could insert any guys there and they'd be fine; so much of it depends on Newton's running threat rather than receivers really winning routes.

I liked how Tampa used Evans yesterday as more of a multi-route guy who can also beat you short and medium. That's what was awful about the Saints game was the one-trick pony way they tried to use him.

Tampa Bay was missing Godwin yesterday, who is probably a top 10 receiver, while there were two abnormal touchdown drops, plus you could tell there's still a lot of timing/reps issues. The offense was still quite effective.

I'm not an offensive coordinator, but all the things I complained about with Tampa's offense in game 1 got cleaned up in game 2. Using Evans on hitches and screens, motioning Miller and other receivers, having a running back in the backfield on shotgun. These things seemed obvious as a way to mix it up rather than having incredibly predictable routes and no guessing with run/pass.

I think the Bucs will have an elite offense by the end of the season...IF Arians continues to be open minded. One thing that's still disappointing is that tight ends had only four targets yesterday. He needs to get off that absurd tendency to only use them as blockers, especially with Howard. Don't know why this guy is so opposed to versatility and embraces a Techmo Bowl playbook.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm just pointing out that Seattle isn't a juggernaut. Wilson is fantastic, but we know how teams usually fare in the postseason when they need their QB to play like a god in order to win. Doesn't have anything to do with Tampa Bay being good or bad, just that Seattle has a lot of problems. It's early, but it's trending like the NFC will not have a really dominant team this season and there will be a handful of teams that are about as good as the next but no one is going 14-2 or 13-3. Contrast the NFC's best to the AFC's best with Kansas City and Baltimore and there's a big difference.

The Saints are a 12+ win team

 

[PatsBoy12]

Man this thread has turned into a cesspool.

I was really hoping it didn't, but I always worried it would eventually be drug into an abyss. What's so irritating is some of the most active posters are the ones who hate the thread and even stated they would leave and not return to it. One, in particular, responds to my posts whenever I include his name, even when I don't @ him or quote his posts, which obviously means he's combing through the thread and reading every post. There is no other explanation. I can screenshot where this same poster said he would leave the thread and never come back because he just didn't care that much about it. But he continues to be more active than just about any other poster, for or against the thread... and even me, the OP. Interesting.

Anyway, my motive for starting the thread remains the same. It was and is supposed to be a place where those who still wish to follow the G.O.A.T. can find info and discuss the final few years of his career. And it was supposed to be about Gronk too, to a lesser degree. It was never supposed to be about how or why Tom left NE, his attitude last season, whether he was going to be traded years ago, Giselle or any of the other nonsense that is mostly, if not totally, irrelevant to what he does on the field with the Bucs. It does not make me a Bucs fan. It does not mean I've chosen him over BB (or vice versa for that matter). It does not mean I agree or disagree with what happened his final year or two in Pats red, white and blue. I am a Patriots fan for life (or until the NFL implodes). I still love BB and the rest of those who helped him build the best organization in all of sports for all time. And yes, I still love Tom Brady. I will cheer for both until or unless we meet in the SB. I will be the same nervous wreck of a fan watching both the Pats and Tom. I will continue to think it irrational and downright idiotic to view rooting for the Pats an all or nothing proposition in this case, while ignoring the final few years of the all-time greatest football player's career. Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I want to see the end of the saga after investing 20 years of my life to it?

DONE!

 

[sb1]

I'm sure Brady can sleep at night now. He got the Arians stamp of approval.

 

[203Pat]

I was really hoping it didn't, but I always worried it would eventually be drug into an abyss. What's so irritating is some of the most active posters are the ones who hate the thread and even stated they would leave and not return to it. One, in particular, responds to my posts whenever I include his name, even when I don't @ him or quote his posts, which obviously means he's combing through the thread and reading every post. There is no other explanation. I can screenshot where this same poster said he would leave the thread and never come back because he just didn't care that much about it. But he continues to be more active than just about any other poster, for or against the thread... and even me, the OP. Interesting.

Anyway, my motive for starting the thread remains the same. It was and is supposed to be a place where those who still wish to follow the G.O.A.T. can find info and discuss the final few years of his career. And it was supposed to be about Gronk too, to a lesser degree. It was never supposed to be about how or why Tom left NE, his attitude last season, whether he was going to be traded years ago, Giselle or any of the other nonsense that is mostly, if not totally, irrelevant to what he does on the field with the Bucs. It does not make me a Bucs fan. It does not mean I've chosen him over BB (or vice versa for that matter). It does not mean I agree or disagree with what happened his final year or two in Pats red, white and blue. I am a Patriots fan for life (or until the NFL implodes). I still love BB and the rest of those who helped him build the best organization in all of sports for all time. And yes, I still love Tom Brady. I will cheer for both until or unless we meet in the SB. I will be the same nervous wreck of a fan watching both the Pats and Tom. I will continue to think it irrational and downright idiotic to view rooting for the Pats and all or nothing proposition in this case, while ignoring the final few years of the all-time greatest football player's career. Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I want to see the end of the saga after investing 20 years of my life to it?

DONE!

Some very thin skinned an immature posters that just cant help themselves.

 

[Deus Irae]

So, no QB1 and no WR1 for Denver in this game, and that could be true when it's Broncos/Pats, too.

 

[Deus Irae]

Another Broncos injury that could linger until the Patriots game:

 

[Deus Irae]

And another one....

 

[Zarozzor]

I guess that saying about beating a dead horse was true when it comes to the Broncos

 

[upstater1]

Honestly I think Wilson makes his receivers look better than they are; if they have speed, Wilson gets them the ball.

I'm going to give Metcalf more credit than that. Wilson is excellent and threw 2 incredible balls, but having a receiver that can threaten with size AND speed, and also adjust to the ball, he'll make a QB look good. Most deep ball QBs have guys like that. Tyreek Hill is another. Give us Julio Jones and you'll see a bunch of deep balls. This isn't to take anything away from Wilson, but his long balls wouldn't look so good if those guys who can fly and highpoint the ball weren't there.

It sounds like a basic and obvious point but I always hear about these QBs who can't connect on the deep ball. Look at Josh Allen this year. 3rd year in the league. First 2 years he never connected on the deep ball. Suddenly he has a bunch of bombs and TDs. Could it be the 2 WRs they brought in?

 

[upstater1]

I was really hoping it didn't, but I always worried it would eventually be drug into an abyss. What's so irritating is some of the most active posters are the ones who hate the thread and even stated they would leave and not return to it. One, in particular, responds to my posts whenever I include his name, even when I don't @ him or quote his posts, which obviously means he's combing through the thread and reading every post. There is no other explanation. I can screenshot where this same poster said he would leave the thread and never come back because he just didn't care that much about it. But he continues to be more active than just about any other poster, for or against the thread... and even me, the OP. Interesting.

Anyway, my motive for starting the thread remains the same. It was and is supposed to be a place where those who still wish to follow the G.O.A.T. can find info and discuss the final few years of his career. And it was supposed to be about Gronk too, to a lesser degree. It was never supposed to be about how or why Tom left NE, his attitude last season, whether he was going to be traded years ago, Giselle or any of the other nonsense that is mostly, if not totally, irrelevant to what he does on the field with the Bucs. It does not make me a Bucs fan. It does not mean I've chosen him over BB (or vice versa for that matter). It does not mean I agree or disagree with what happened his final year or two in Pats red, white and blue. I am a Patriots fan for life (or until the NFL implodes). I still love BB and the rest of those who helped him build the best organization in all of sports for all time. And yes, I still love Tom Brady. I will cheer for both until or unless we meet in the SB. I will be the same nervous wreck of a fan watching both the Pats and Tom. I will continue to think it irrational and downright idiotic to view rooting for the Pats an all or nothing proposition in this case, while ignoring the final few years of the all-time greatest football player's career. Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I want to see the end of the saga after investing 20 years of my life to it?

DONE!

Makes me wonder if they truly enjoy sports. It's a human drama. A lot of personalities are involved. Belichick. Brady. Manning. We always talk about these people not for their athletic exploits as though they're robots, but also for how they lead their teams, how they reacted during pressure, hw they behaved off the field, were they team players, were they fair, etc. It makes it interesting. My interest in sports has always been like this. Watching the Celtics back in the 80s you really had to get used to that hick from the sinister edge of the midwest. At Fenway, no one brought more joy there than big Papi (even though I had more favorite players). If Big Papi left, I would have followed him. In fact, I followed Nomar after he left since he was my favorite player (and I wanted Clemens to do horribly!). All in all, I still only rooted for the teams I began rooting for as a kid. But I also followed the players I liked, wherever they went.

 

[upstater1]

I didn't say the Bucs would be shut out but Brady ain't keeping pace with Wilson.

Brady devotees...see the raw meat...come get it.

By the looks of the Seattle defense, I'd say Wilson better get used to setting the pace. Cam was practically flawless yesterday. But Seattle can't cover and they sure as heck can't rush the passer.

 

[Deus Irae]

I said the Saints were a 12+ win team. So, naturally, they look like they're going to lose tonight.

 

[Joker]

their secondary is on crack or something....Jackrabbit Jenkins has always been a three braincelled amoebaloid when it comes to situational football.

 

[venecol]

Some run play breakdown courtesy of Nobody from All-22 showing how Gronk is doing what he's asked:

1ST & 7 AT CAR 7(05:47)
(5:47) R.Jones right end for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

Unbalanced Right (Gronk in-line, OJ Wing), 7v8 so box disadvantage but 5v5 playside and some trickeration; Inside Zone Weak Cutback.

This play is designed to get everyone flowing hard weakside and its a designed cutback to the strongside. It works beautifully and gets Jones 1v1 vs DB on the edge and that's a win. This play is a perfect illustration that you don't have to have a box advantage (or even box parity) and you can still win plenty in the run game with (a) a well-designed wrinkle that a team hasn't seen and (b) great e8xecution up front.

Wirfs caves in the 2i inside of him toward the weakside (as designed). His Inside Zone Drive Block is great footwork-wise, but he gets a little high and his hand placement is bad (this is borderline hold-worthy hand placement...it doesn't get called because Wirfs keeps working...if you keep working through your man, you can get away with hand placement outside of the frame...if you stall your feet and they get turned/flail..you'll get whistled). But he's so explosive and powerful laterally out of his stance that that initial shock is good enough to generate displacement, despite terrible hand placement.

OJ caves in the 7 tech and Gronk caves in the 5 tech. Great job by those 3 men.

1v1 Big Boy Stiffarm to DB and its 6.

 

[venecol]

2ND & 5 AT TB 31(13:53)
(13:53) L.Fournette right end to TB 35 for 4 yards (T.Pride; J.Chinn).

Unbalanced Right (OJ outside of Gronk) w/ 8v7 box advantage and 5v4 playside advantage; Man Weak Cutback.

Another designed cutback play. We fake the Man Weak and its a Strong handoff.

Wirfs does a solid job on brief initial combo helping Cappa w/ the 3T and then a great, controlled climb to 2nd level to take the MLB out of the play. Gronk caves in the DE completely (great job here). OJ wins against Safety initially but doesn't keep working his feet and sustain.

Cappa's initial win (w/ Wirfs help) doesn't sustain and cutback (again, playside) 3T recovers and pursues (basically playing Spill defender at this point) w/ Fournette 1v1 w/ CB coming up in run support (who is basically Force here).

Fournette doesn't try to bounce the play 1v1 w/ CB and some backside pursuit, but plants his foot and gets upfield, content to get what he's going to get. I agree with this decision. It was a play win and 5 is good enough. He could have tried to bounce and turn a 5 yard run into 3 or 10...but I like the decision to just get downhill, finish, and get the 5 the play was set up to get

 

[venecol]

1ST & 10 AT TB 39(12:35)
(12:35) L.Fournette right tackle to TB 43 for 4 yards (J.Chinn; T.Whitehead).

Unbalanced Right (OJ outside of Gronk) w/ Tight WR (again, basically Bunch) w/ 8v9 box disadvantage but 6v6 playside; Man Weak Cutback

Yet another designed Cutback.

Wirfs and Cappa crush the playside 3T. 2 yards displacement vertically and then just cave him down inside (away from the designed cutback).

Gronk does a great job initially with playside 5T...almost loses him...but is relentlessly, keeps working his feet and caves him down inside just enough to keep him away from the cutback all the way to the edge. OJ and Watson do a solid job on the Safeties (both rolled up over them on-ball).

Again, this gets Fournette 1v1 with the CB. Again, he doesn't bounce, puts his foot in the ground and takes what the OL generated, running through the CB tackle and getting 4.

 

[venecol]

1ST & 10 AT TB 35(06:03)
(6:03) R.Jones right tackle to TB 39 for 4 yards (J.Chinn).

This is interesting. They're actually in 32 Big Dime vs 11 personnel.

Gronk motions from Wing Left to Wing Right, 6v5 box advantage and 4v3 playside advantage; Strong Outside Zone.

Wirfs is just absolutely fantastic here. 5T lined up outside of him and he explodes laterally out of his stance with his bucket step and second step WAY before the 5T even moves. He's across his face instantly and sealing him inside. This is enormously impressive. Honestly, Iowa didn't run Outside Zone much (if at all...I don't remember seeing it when reviewing his prospect tape) so you just didn't get to see him attempt to Reach a 5T like this. Its something.

Watson does a great job coming down on the Safety and Gronk is absolutely clean in space 1v1 against the boundary CB. If Jones continued to press the play to the boundary, this was either a TD or a HUGE play.

Thing is, we dominated inside and the cutback opens up enormously so he cuts back off Marpet's win backside and Jensen is out in front of that. The damned thing is, this subverts Watson's win against the Safety (he had him sealed inside) so the Safety is able to get free, clean to the ball. Jones has to break this tackle here and get some more. This is as beautifully an Outside Zone can possibly be blocked in the NFL..and we only get 4.

I'm not going to say this was a misread by Jones because the cutback opened up enormously. But I'd really like to see him be a little more patient and press the playside a little longer on an Outside Zone run. But if you're going to cutback...you_MUST_break this tackle and get 8-10.

 

[venecol]

Nobody concludes:

1) This is more schematic diversity and better run game play-calling than I've seen in a long time on tape for the Bucs.

2) Within that all of that schematic diversity, this is the best execution I've seen by all the guys up front in a long time for the Bucs.

3) Some of these were certainly Run Checks by Brady, but I'm not paying a ton of attention to that. Its clear that Brady does a good job of getting us into advantageous positions in the run game.

4) Wirfs run game tape is just so impressive. He's Reaching a 5T in Outside Zone like its nothing and winning, he's blowing iDL off the ball and caving them in in Man, he's climbing 2nd level with pace, balance, and great angle of attack and winning against LBs

 

[Guts]

Man if any of the old QBs are washed it looks like it's Brees... Granted still super early let's give it a couple more games, but right now physically, TB looks far superior