Coronavirus RESPECTFUL Discussion Only! (Mod edit: Closed)

[Kdo5]

I don‘t give a real rats ass how it happened really. It’s here regardless of where it originated from. The fact that people don’t understand the geo/politcial fallout from a misuse of testing at a biolab would be immense is amazing. China isn’t exactly a stickler for regulations and the like. Also, never trust what experts say on the origins of these things. There are entities that need to be protected otherwise world wide chaos would ensue.

It isn’t like we haven’t had incidents ourselves with accidental disease releases right?

People like you who say “don’t trust the experts” are part of the problem. Yes we should listen to the ****ing experts on what is happening and what to do rather than conspiracy theorists like yourself.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I don‘t give a real rats ass how it happened really. It’s here regardless of where it originated from. The fact that people don’t understand the geo/politcial fallout from a misuse of testing at a biolab would be immense is amazing. China isn’t exactly a stickler for regulations and the like. Also, never trust what experts say on the origins of these things. There are entities that need to be protected otherwise world wide chaos would ensue.

It isn’t like we haven’t had incidents ourselves with accidental disease releases right?

For today’s lesson, we’re going to be discussing logical fallacies. Please turn to this first paragraph and circle in red all the different ones you can find.

 

[lancerman]

I’m offering up theories and it isn’t without merit. So go on and cry for daddy. You need a safe space?

Okay here’s a theory. You put your tinfoil hat on too tight and it’s making you see things that aren’t there.

Thanks for the theories you are offering, but they aren’t necessary.

 

[Adam Seward]

That's the dilemma. If the hospitals don't become overwhelmed we'll be fine. If they do the death rate skyrockets by up to a multiple of ten. At least that's what we're seeing elsewhere.

Unprepared yet modern healthcare infrastructure is getting tapped beyond capacity at an alarming rate.
WHO officials warn health systems are 'collapsing' under coronavirus: 'This isn't just a bad flu season'

But we are fortunate to have modern facilities. We can turn a tap and not think twice about becoming deathly ill from drinking it. Imagine being in this boat.
No soap, no water: billions lack basic protection against virus - RFI


Its optimistic we are finding existing drugs that prove effective. What the landscape should look like going forward.

The Next Coronavirus Nightmare: There's a Drug Shortage on the Horizon

Heilbrunn: Can you talk about the role of diagnostics both for patient care but also for disease surveillance?

Gottlieb: You are going to want two things. One is a point of care diagnostic. You’re going to want a diagnostic that you can deploy to doctor’s offices so that you can diagnose people really easily so that when you find people who have coronavirus, you can quarantine them. We’re not going to wait twenty-four to forty-eight hours for a diagnostic, it really needs to be in the doctor’s office. And there is no reason that is not attainable. That is something you should be able to develop within three months. We have all kinds of rapid diagnostics at doctor’s offices—the flu swab, which you’re probably familiar with.

The other thing you’re going to want is an extremely robust surveillance system. You’re going to want a system that basically looks at people who present with influenza-like illness but who test negative for the flu. And you then test their samples to see what they have. We currently do that. We have a surveillance system distributed throughout multiple cities and we take a certain number of samples—it’s a small amount—it’s not tens of thousands but thousands and we test them for other things to see what is circulating in the population. We also do that to try to have an early detection in case, like, a pandemic flu stream is circulating. But we don’t do it for this novel coronavirus and we don’t do it on a mass scale.

What you’re going to want by the fall is to really blow that out, do it at a mass scale, and obviously build out the capability to do it for coronavirus. Because this coronavirus is not really going to come and go. It’s going to be with us. And unless we have those kinds of tools available to us and this kind of surveillance system in place, this is going to change daily life in perpetuity until we have a vaccine. And that’s not sustainable. The kind of posture that the nation is in right now isn’t sustainable. And another major epidemic won’t be sustainable. So we need the tools to change the landscape for how we deal with this and people need to be really focused on that right now because I think we got caught a little flat-footed with this epidemic. We were not really anticipating that this would become an epidemic in the United States. Although there were people who felt that it would, there was not the kind of preparation, necessarily, that needed to happen two months ago to prepare for now. And you don’t want to be in a situation where it’s September and saying, “Gosh, I really wish we would have done some things differently in May and June so we have different tools and a different posture.”

We need testing duration to be shorter and we need to deploy incredible amounts of them.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

Every outbreak provides an opportunity to gain important information, some of which is associated with a limited window of opportunity. For example, Li et al. report a mean interval of 9.1 to 12.5 days between the onset of illness and hospitalization. This finding of a delay in the progression to serious disease may be telling us something important about the pathogenesis of this new virus and may provide a unique window of opportunity for intervention. Achieving a better understanding of the pathogenesis of this disease will be invaluable in navigating our responses in this uncharted arena. Furthermore, genomic studies could delineate host factors that predispose persons to acquisition of infection and disease progression.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: bat vs evil plan

Read this. It's a good explanation (ignore the sensationalized title meant to get you to react)
Bats are not to blame for coronavirus. Humans are - CNN

 

[bormio]

The newest regimen appears to be Plaquenil with Zithromax. Both readily available drugs on the market. Doses are actually modest.

 

[Patstastic]

When Football is on we all go into our own bubble. We feel down when our team loses. We feel high when our team wins. Then something like this happens and puts things into perspective. I pray for everyone who has been affected in one way or another by this disease. These are scary times. But if we work together we can get through this.

 

[ViperGTS]

People like you who say “don’t trust the experts” are part of the problem. Yes we should listen to the ****ing experts on what is happening and what to do rather than conspiracy theorists like yourself.

As far as how it originated? Sure. Listen to them about what to do to about it to save people? Absolutely listen to them. When they say don’t need a months or more worth of supplies? Yep, don’t listen to that. You can’t believe everything they say because they have reason for what they say or don’t say. Some for disinformation, some for national security and others for avoiding panic.

Funny. I say a lab miles away that worked on bats and coronavirus may have had a leak of some kind (the horror to even think that!) and get flamed. Then a “get the mods here quick!” all the while the millions of people on social media, radio and even here said “don’t worry its just the flu, you don’t know what you are talking about crazy person” aren’t the real dangerous ones?

What I post is food for thought. What those people espoused probably got some people infected that didn’t need be. Or worse.

 

[ViperGTS]

Re: bat vs evil plan

Read this. It's a good explanation (ignore the sensationalized title meant to get you to react)
Bats are not to blame for coronavirus. Humans are - CNN

Does seem to be most likely source. Good read. They still don’t know for sure where it came from. So my theory isn’t ahem...batshit crazy? Lol.

 

[Adam Seward]

When Football is on we all go into our own bubble. We feel down when our team loses. We feel high when our team wins. Then something like this happens and puts things into perspective. I pray for everyone who has been affected in one way or another by this disease. These are scary times. But if we work together we can get through this.

This might be the very unfortunate catalyst to a very serious look into what we need to do, not as nations but as a species, to mitigate damage and solve the problems together sooner. Plagues are things of the past, present and future. We are seeing every trained mind capable pushing the boundaries of knowledge and ability towards a collective solution. If we did not have to experience the loss of community and loved ones, this effort of collective humanity would be a thing of beauty. Unfortunately we are in a zero sum world where it takes something that threatens much of our comfort to deploy resources towards solving the same problem unified as one.

 

[Patstastic]

This might be the very unfortunate catalyst to a very serious look into what we need to do, not as nations but as a species, to mitigate damage and solve the problems together sooner. Plagues are things of the past, present and future. We are seeing every trained mind capable pushing the boundaries of knowledge and ability towards a collective solution. If we did not have to experience the loss of community and loved ones, this effort of collective humanity would be a thing of beauty. Unfortunately we are in a zero sum world where it takes something that threatens much of our comfort to deploy resources towards solving the same problem unified as one.

Great answer. You don't know what you have until it's gone. And it's unfortunate that some take family and life for granted. And to your point, it takes a disaster like this to gain perspective.

 

[patsfan13]

Does this board have mods? This is really no time for a crazy person to spew misinformation and push conspiracy theories. Stop being irresponsible and go get life.

We don' tknow whether the corona virus was manmade or not, we have experts speculating. We also have a Chinese government that is spreading a lot of money to 'experts' at universities and else where to tow the part line, see the recent arrest of the Harvard Chemistry prof.

This article from 2019 well before the Coronavirsu and the current politicization of the outbreak talks about China's bio weapon research programs.

Weaponizing Biotech: How China's Military Is Preparing for a 'New Domain of Warfare'

I find it funny how many want to censor discussion by claiming a conspiracy to censor opinions they disagree with.

 

[ViperGTS]

Great answer. You don't know what you have until it's gone. And it's unfortunate that some take family and life for granted. And to your point, it takes a disaster like this to gain perspective.

Agreed. I know Ford and GM stopped production. Ford has offered to make respirators and overseas Ferrari has stopped as well I believe and they are going to make them too.

There must be very bad projections for these companies to do this. Still proving what needs to be done can be done if people work together.

 

[patsfan13]

The moves by Trump to move manufacturing from China to America is looking better all the time. We don't make any ventilators in the US currently. The Chicoms are threatening to stop imports of pharmaceuticals to the US to punish us.

If they are to be $$ for companies there should be strings attached about bringing many jobs and manufacturing back to the USA. So we will be in a better position to respond to the next epidemic.

 

[venecol]

Also, never trust what experts say on the origins of these things. There are entities that need to be protected otherwise world wide chaos would ensue.

It isn’t like we haven’t had incidents ourselves with accidental disease releases right?

I agree, there was an accidental outbreak that occurred in California (1995) that Dr. Keough and Dr. Daniels were able to fortunately stop.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I agree, there was an accidental outbreak that occurred in California (1995) that Dr. Keough and Dr. Daniels were able to fortunately stop.

Did one of the doctors become a comic book hero and the other a villain?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The moves by Trump to move manufacturing from China to America is looking better all the time. We don't make any ventilators in the US currently. The Chicoms are threatening to stop imports of pharmaceuticals to the US to punish us.

If they are to be $$ for companies there should be strings attached about bringing many jobs and manufacturing back to the USA. So we will be in a better position to respond to the next epidemic.

We need to pull all manufacturing from China

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Okay guys I have to say to defend my snotty english-y persona, I KNEW it was a quote, but did not have the source. To be clear I did NOT think that Noonan wrote a great line, I thought that Noonan picked a great quote. GRRR!

A simple google search will tell you that experts believe 70% of america will have this virus within 18 months and that the fatality rate sits between 3 and 4%

Do the math and stop insulting people. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

The figure is usually said to be 40-70%

I'm just trying to defend him from the left wing mob on here who thinks everything he does is wrong. If the WHO declares it a public health emergency on January 30, and he institutes a travel ban the following day, he's apparently four weeks behind...gimme a break.

He did not institute a travel ban. He banned some but not all people coming from China, then did not institute effective tracking and quarantine of all the American cases he brought back. But the MAIN thing that pisses me off about this nonsense is he keeps pointing back to thing one out of 300 things he should have done in response to this crisis, and didn't, not to mention the 100 things he should not have done, and did, and gets IDIOTS to blather what a good boy he is. I'm sick of it.

Have you EVER seen a politician break his arm patting himself on the back like this, rating his response a 10 out of 10 -- even if he did well -- and so on?

First of all, there are many responses necessary - he stopped some but not all flights from China. Okay. Thats his big bragging point.

Think of it this way. Stopping the viral spread is like keeping a girl from becoming pregnant.

He stopped certain flights, which we'll say is like engaging in a non-pregnancy-inducing activity. But then the girl climbs up on your lap with both of you naked.

So you STILL have to take other steps. You can't just F up from then on.

 

[venecol]

We need to pull all manufacturing from China

Would that be by executive order?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Okay guys I have to say to defend my snotty english-y persona, I KNEW it was a quote, but did not have the source. To be clear I did NOT think that Noonan wrote a great line, I thought that Noonan picked a great quote. GRRR!



The figure is usually said to be 40-70%



He did not institute a travel ban. He banned some but not all people coming from China, then did not institute effective tracking and quarantine of all the American cases he brought back. But the MAIN thing that pisses me off about this nonsense is he keeps pointing back to thing one out of 300 things he should have done in response to this crisis, and didn't, not to mention the 100 things he should not have done, and did, and gets IDIOTS to blather what a good boy he is. I'm sick of it.

Have you EVER seen a politician break his arm patting himself on the back like this, rating his response a 10 out of 10 -- even if he did well -- and so on?

First of all, there are many responses necessary - he stopped some but not all flights from China. Okay. Thats his big bragging point.

Think of it this way. Stopping the viral spread is like keeping a girl from becoming pregnant.

He stopped certain flights, which we'll say is like engaging in a non-pregnancy-inducing activity. But then the girl climbs up on your lap with both of you naked.

So you STILL have to take other steps. You can't just F up from then on.

You just caused TommyBrady12 to spend the next 412 years defending Trump’s handling of the outbreak.