The Tom Brady rumor thread

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Giving up and adjusting the game plan are too completely different things. 2 quarters of football doesn’t make him a good or bad coach.

Conveniently lost in the “facts”: Shanahan’s cumulative scoring differential through 16 regular season games, two postseason games, and the first three quarters of the Super Bowl.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Giving up and adjusting the game plan are too completely different things. 2 quarters of football doesn’t make him a good or bad coach.

I didn't say he was a bad coach, just not as great a coach as one poster seems to think he is. For my money the best offensive play caller in the league is already on our team.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Vrabel and Brady are friends. I think they went to the Derby together, either this year or last. You're not proving tampering just because two buddies are talking on the phone.

None of that matters to the NFL...

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018 Policies/7-2018 Anti-Tampering Policy-Clean Version.pdf

Assumption of Risk. To avoid potentially embarrassing situations and possible disciplinary actions, clubs are reminded that any contact by members of one organization with players of another organization could potentially interfere with an employer-employee relationship of the second club, even if the circumstances surrounding the contact may appear to be innocent. The Competition Committee has reviewed the Anti-Tampering Policy on numerous occasions and has always emphasized that great care and judgment must be exercised when any contact is made between the members of an organization and players from other teams, even in situations in which close personal relationships may exist. Although the Policy does not prohibit conversations or other forms of communication that are strictly social in nature, such communication can quickly and easily cross the line into prohibited topics of the type discussed in Section 3(b)(6) below. For this reason, clubs whose personnel engage in such social contact do so at their own risk and expose themselves and their clubs to discipline.

 

[Deus Irae]

Agree...but how is Arians not tampering?

His is a much tougher case to defend. What he said about Brady as a non-mobile QB who's racking up Lombardis is a great use of an excellent example. And, if Brady were in the middle of a, say, 4 year deal, nobody would blink an eye. But, because of TB12's impending free agency, it's problematic. It really becomes a question of how the listener chooses to take the comment.

 

[Deus Irae]

None of that matters to the NFL...

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018 Policies/7-2018 Anti-Tampering Policy-Clean Version.pdf

Assumption of Risk. To avoid potentially embarrassing situations and possible disciplinary actions, clubs are reminded that any contact by members of one organization with players of another organization could potentially interfere with an employer-employee relationship of the second club, even if the circumstances surrounding the contact may appear to be innocent. The Competition Committee has reviewed the Anti-Tampering Policy on numerous occasions and has always emphasized that great care and judgment must be exercised when any contact is made between the members of an organization and players from other teams, even in situations in which close personal relationships may exist. Although the Policy does not prohibit conversations or other forms of communication that are strictly social in nature, such communication can quickly and easily cross the line into prohibited topics of the type discussed in Section 3(b)(6) below. For this reason, clubs whose personnel engage in such social contact do so at their own risk and expose themselves and their clubs to discipline.

From your own quote, since you stopped just before the point I was making, and it's the point that kills your argument and makes mine:

... the Policy does not prohibit conversations or other forms of communication that are strictly social in nature...

 

[203Pat]

I didn't say he was a bad coach, just not as great a coach as one poster seems to think he is. For my money the best offensive play caller in the league is already on our team.

Josh has never done anything without the greatest QB to ever play and the greatest coach to ever coach at his disposal. Shanahan Has turned an otherwise above average QB into an MVP and turned countless average players into stars.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Josh has never done anything without the greatest QB to ever play and the greatest coach to ever coach at his disposal. Shanahan Has turned an otherwise above average QB into an MVP and turned countless average players into stars.

Josh fell on his face with Sam Bradford and Kyle Orton. And he drafted Tim Tebow in the first round (lol.) He has done no better than Charlie Weis or Bill O'Brien, considering the talent. Brady is the straw that stirs the drink.

 

[Deus Irae]

Josh has never done anything without the greatest QB to ever play and the greatest coach to ever coach at his disposal. Shanahan Has turned an otherwise above average QB into an MVP and turned countless average players into stars.

Josh fell on his face with Sam Bradford and Kyle Orton. And he drafted Tim Tebow in the first round (lol.) He has done no better than Charlie Weis or Bill O'Brien, considering the talent. Brady is the straw that stirs the drink.

Orton was never better than when he was working with McDaniels (Let's not haggle over a 0.3 difference in QB rating).

Kyle Orton Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com


The Rams year was all about injuries. Tebow was drafted when the Broncos needed a QBOTF, and he was the right choice when you look at what was available. Given the alternatives, taking a gamble on being able to change his throwing motion was a sensible decision. He didn't work out, but look at the hot mess that was that QB draft.

1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma
2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida
3 2 16 48 Jimmy Clausen Panthers Notre Dame
4 3 21 85 Colt McCoy Browns Texas 5 4 24 122 Mike Kafka Eagles Northwestern
6 5 24 155 John Skelton Cardinals Fordham
7 5 37 168 Jonathan Crompton Chargers Tennessee
8 6 7 176 Rusty Smith Titans Florida Atlantic
9 6 12 181 Dan LeFevour Bears Central Michigan
10 6 30 199 Joe Webb Vikings Alabama-Birmingham
11 6 35 204 Tony Pike Panthers Cincinnati
12 7 2 209 Levi Brown Bills Troy
13 7 32 239 Sean Canfield Saints Oregon State

DraftHistory.com

 

[TN patriot fan]

Vrabel and Brady are friends. I think they went to the Derby together, either this year or last. You're not proving tampering just because two buddies are talking on the phone.

Also, it was another team doing the possible tampering, which means the mob boss looks the other way.

 

[Deus Irae]

Also, it was another team doing the possible tampering, which means the mob boss looks the other way.

Belichick has told us that he texts JAG. JAG has told us that he continues to do so, "every now and again". BB needs to be banned from football forever because of this.

 

[TN patriot fan]

Orton was never better than when he was working with McDaniels (Let's not haggle over a 0.3 difference in QB rating).

Kyle Orton Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com


The Rams year was all about injuries. Tebow was drafted when the Broncos needed a QBOTF, and he was the right choice when you look at what was available. Given the alternatives, taking a gamble on being able to change his throwing motion was a sensible decision. He didn't work out, but look at the hot mess that was that QB draft.

1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma
2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida
3 2 16 48 Jimmy Clausen Panthers Notre Dame
4 3 21 85 Colt McCoy Browns Texas 5 4 24 122 Mike Kafka Eagles Northwestern
6 5 24 155 John Skelton Cardinals Fordham
7 5 37 168 Jonathan Crompton Chargers Tennessee
8 6 7 176 Rusty Smith Titans Florida Atlantic
9 6 12 181 Dan LeFevour Bears Central Michigan
10 6 30 199 Joe Webb Vikings Alabama-Birmingham
11 6 35 204 Tony Pike Panthers Cincinnati
12 7 2 209 Levi Brown Bills Troy
13 7 32 239 Sean Canfield Saints Oregon State

DraftHistory.com

That is one ugly QB draft.

 

[Sicilian]

Even if Vrabel was tampering by the letter of the law (which it's not clear he was), I have a hard time believing Belichick would pursue it. Not because they're super close, but I bet teams do this ALL THE DAMN TIME, and once you start going after everyone else for minor infractions, that's when they start doing the same to you. Unless it's blatant, and BB really feels like it's hampered his ability to bring back Tom, there's no reason for anyone to get in a twist over it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Orton was never better than when he was working with McDaniels (Let's not haggle over a 0.3 difference in QB rating).

Kyle Orton Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com


The Rams year was all about injuries. Tebow was drafted when the Broncos needed a QBOTF, and he was the right choice when you look at what was available. Given the alternatives, taking a gamble on being able to change his throwing motion was a sensible decision. He didn't work out, but look at the hot mess that was that QB draft.

1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma
2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida
3 2 16 48 Jimmy Clausen Panthers Notre Dame
4 3 21 85 Colt McCoy Browns Texas 5 4 24 122 Mike Kafka Eagles Northwestern
6 5 24 155 John Skelton Cardinals Fordham
7 5 37 168 Jonathan Crompton Chargers Tennessee
8 6 7 176 Rusty Smith Titans Florida Atlantic
9 6 12 181 Dan LeFevour Bears Central Michigan
10 6 30 199 Joe Webb Vikings Alabama-Birmingham
11 6 35 204 Tony Pike Panthers Cincinnati
12 7 2 209 Levi Brown Bills Troy
13 7 32 239 Sean Canfield Saints Oregon State

DraftHistory.com

Point is taken that McD certainly didn't get dealt a good hand, but it still stands that he hasn't proven he can excel outside of Brady. Which is fine because about 99% of coaches and offensive coordinators are about as good as the quarterback. But the discussion is about Shanahan (McDaniels was brought into the discussion), who elevated Matt Ryan to MVP, got the most out of Nick Mullens, and is fielding a top offense with Jimmy Garoppolo. I think he is on another level with offensive schemes...similar to Belichick's early years with defense. McVeigh got a lot of the media hype, but Shanahan is clearly the shining star of that famous Washington group of young coaches.

But I stand corrected about Josh..there were notable circumstances.

 

[Deus Irae]

That is one ugly QB draft.

Yeah, it's absolutely brutal. That's why I find the "OMG! He drafted Tebow!" argument to be laughable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Point is taken that McD certainly didn't get dealt a good hand, but it still stands that he hasn't proven he can excel outside of Brady.

I agree. My only issue about it is about how people spin that into a negative rather than an unknown.

Which is fine because about 99% of coaches and offensive coordinators are about as good as the quarterback. But the discussion is about Shanahan (McDaniels was brought into the discussion), who elevated Matt Ryan to MVP, got the most out of Nick Mullens, and is fielding a top offense with Jimmy Garoppolo. I think he is on another level with offensive schemes...similar to Belichick's early years with defense. McVeigh got a lot of the media hype, but Shanahan is clearly the shining star of that famous Washington group of young coaches.

People in the league consider McDaniels to be among the very best at his job. And it's not as if he hasn't had success with JAG, Brissett, and Cassel, when Brady's been out.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Josh has never done anything without the greatest QB to ever play and the greatest coach to ever coach at his disposal. Shanahan Has turned an otherwise above average QB into an MVP and turned countless average players into stars.

Josh fell on his face with Sam Bradford and Kyle Orton. And he drafted Tim Tebow in the first round (lol.) He has done no better than Charlie Weis or Bill O'Brien, considering the talent. Brady is the straw that stirs the drink.

Not sure why you two seem to like pitting our coaching staff vs Brady as far as who is most responsible for the dynasty. First, Ice whatever calls Belichick a nobody without Brady. Now it's Josh.

My comments about McDaniels has to do with his ability as a coordinator, which Belichick has praised repeatedly . And it is fact that Belichick basically lets McDaniels run the offense to his liking and even if Belichick disagrees on a game plan he lets Josh ultimately decide. That's how much respect Bill has for him. Kyle Shanahan, on the other hand, has failed in his first two super bowl attempts...Josh is 3-2 in this department. Really, the only Super Bowl Josh failed in was 42, where the offense did nothing. Overall, I'll take Josh's record over Shanahan's any day. And remember, it was Josh's decision to turn the offense into a run-first offense in 2018 that led to #6.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Point is taken that McD certainly didn't get dealt a good hand, but it still stands that he hasn't proven he can excel outside of Brady.

You still haven't proven Brady can win outside the NE ecosystem. It cuts both ways.

 

[203Pat]

Not sure why you two seem to like pitting our coaching staff vs Brady as far as who is most responsible for the dynasty. First, Ice whatever calls Belichick a nobody without Brady. Now it's Josh.

My comments about McDaniels has to do with his ability as a coordinator, which Belichick has praised repeatedly . And it is fact that Belichick basically lets McDaniels run the offense to his liking and even if Belichick disagrees on a game plan he lets Josh ultimately decide. That's how much respect Bill has for him. Kyle Shanahan, on the other hand, has failed in his first two super bowl attempts...Josh is 3-2 in this department. Really, the only Super Bowl Josh failed in was 42, where the offense did nothing. Overall, I'll take Josh's record over Shanahan's any day. And remember, it was Josh's decision to turn the offense into a run-first offense in 2018 that led to #6.

I reacted to the fact that you said Josh is the best play caller in the league when I don’t feel that is the case. Josh didn’t do it with successfully with the Broncos or Rams. Shanahan has now done it successfully with the Falcons and 49ers and hell he even got the Redskins to the playoffs before RG3’s leg fell off.
Shanahan has proved he can do it with multiple QB’s of varying talent and experience. Josh hasn’t.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not sure why you two seem to like pitting our coaching staff vs Brady as far as who is most responsible for the dynasty. First, Ice whatever calls Belichick a nobody without Brady. Now it's Josh.

My comments about McDaniels has to do with his ability as a coordinator, which Belichick has praised repeatedly . And it is fact that Belichick basically lets McDaniels run the offense to his liking and even if Belichick disagrees on a game plan he lets Josh ultimately decide. That's how much respect Bill has for him. Kyle Shanahan, on the other hand, has failed in his first two super bowl attempts...Josh is 3-2 in this department. Really, the only Super Bowl Josh failed in was 42, where the offense did nothing. Overall, I'll take Josh's record over Shanahan's any day. And remember, it was Josh's decision to turn the offense into a run-first offense in 2018 that led to #6.

Josh did a great job in 2018. That said, the scheme was not all that complex, and it basically just came down to the Patriots being able to maul teams on the left side of the line. Gronk, Thuney, and Brown were just massive bulldozers and they also had Develin and Allen. Ultimately Josh decided to not just use this strength often but to build an entire gameplan around it. Hence, they were a power running team who often utilized playaction. There were, of course, times when the Patriots needed to play chess in the passing game, but I don't think SB53 is a great example considering they couldn't move the ball for 3 quarters before figuring out that Develin needs to split out wide to get an advantage.

Of course, Shanahan adapted Josh's heavy use of the TE and FB and basically took it from a checkers concept to a chess one. The 2019 49ers used a dizzying amount of motion to confuse defenses and used Kittle and Juszczyk as multi-threats in the backfield, giving them each a massive amount potential responsibilities for both blocking and passing routes.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I reacted to the fact that you said Josh is the best play caller in the league when I don’t feel that is the case. Josh didn’t do it with successfully with the Broncos or Rams. Shanahan has now done it successfully with the Falcons and 49ers and hell he even got the Redskins to the playoffs before RG3’s leg fell off.
Shanahan has proved he can do it with multiple QB’s of varying talent and experience. Josh hasn’t.

But Josh did do it successfully with NE...it's a better record IMO than Shanahan, whose now 25-26 as an HC.