What if Brady succeeds elsewhere? Ramifications for BB.

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

All of the greatest coaches had a great QB. So to judge BB during his shlub QB days vs those who had great QBs seems unfair.

My broader point is that BB is probably the GOAT of coaches because no one has done more and maximized the advantage like him. The accomplishments speak for themselves. But that doesn’t mean he will just magically be successful without Brady, and it may be a long time before they’re truly competing for a championship. He may be the GOAT of coaches, but coaches are only as good as their players (and QBs are by far the most important player.) If Andy Reid has started his career with Mahomes rather than McNabb/Smith, his legacy might be quite different.

 

[Patriot Missile]

This thread is kind of silly considering BB can’t pick his own team.

That’s right, he can’t pick a team that is on the rise or one that looks ready to take the next step. If he could There would be about 25 teams ringing his agent and thats being conservative.

Although, I could see the sheep lining up with their columns ready to tear BB apart if Tom does succeed elsewhere. The scenarios just aren’t the same. Looks like there is a possibility the cap and some less than stellar drafting will finally catch up. It’s not a knock, its amazing it took this long as it’s just not supposed to happen. Ofcourse Brady was a big part of the success. Neither has 6 superbowls without the other. They were the perfect storm.

 

[amfootball]

My broader point is that BB is probably the GOAT of coaches because no one has done more and maximized the advantage like him. The accomplishments speak for themselves. But that doesn’t mean he will just magically be successful without Brady, and it may be a long time before they’re truly competing for a championship. He may be the GOAT of coaches, but coaches are only as good as their players (and QBs are by far the most important player.) If Andy Reid has started his career with Mahomes rather than McNabb/Smith, his legacy might be quite different.

No kidding. Andy Reid is probably saying, man where was Pat Mahomes 20 years ago?? LOL.
The thing also with Bill is he completely and totally lucked into Brady. He took a 6th round flyer on him and had no idea what he was getting in terms of a competitor. It is really hard to give him too much credit all that front but to your point, he has made the most of it and trading Bledsoe to the Bills was probably the ballsiest move of all time and he reaped the benefits.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

No kidding. Andy Reid is probably saying, man where was Pat Mahomes 20 years ago?? LOL.
The thing also with Bill is he completely and totally lucked into Brady. He took a 6th round flyer on him and had no idea what he was getting in terms of a competitor. It is really hard to give him too much credit all that front but to your point, he has made the most of it and trading Bledsoe to the Bills was probably the ballsiest move of all time and he reaped the benefits.

You make a very good point when you bring up the Bledsoe trade. It also reminds us that there were many in Patriot Nation, including many in this Forum!, who thought it was a mistake not to stick with Drew when he returned from the injury that nearly cost him his life.

I think it's worth asking the question as to how many "OK" or "Good" QB's could have been "Franchise" or even "Great" (very loosely defined here as in the discussion for top 25 all time) QB's if they had been given the conditions in which they could thrive by Coaches and Owners who recognized their potential.

Belichick's statistically mediocre performance as HC in Cleveland has been pointed out in this Thread. But, one of the significant things he did while with the old Browns organization was to recognize that Kosar was not a franchise QB and, to the discontent of fans and management, make the decision that he had to go.

When he was in his second year as "HC of the NEP," despite the hits he had taken for that decision, BB had the guts to break the unwritten "rule" that "you don't lose your job because of an injury," bench a guy who was popular among many fans and create the circumstances, initially with Charlie Weis and eventually with Josh McDaniels, in which Brady could demonstrate his greatness and become the GOAT.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

What if Brady wins one playing for someone else, then BB beats Brady's new team the next year, then Mike Vrabel wins one off Deion Lewis' running the next year...

 

[wizwor]

Don’t complain this thread is speculative and full of hyperbole. It’s in the very title.

What if Brady goes elsewhere, has a hugely successful season and meanwhile Patriots’ season flops as Stidham or whatever other QB throws pick after pick and has a full blown meltdown and Pats finish 4-12 or something or worse. What repercussions does that have to BB’s job, if any, as both a GM and HC? Will we then see Kraft split the GM and HC roles in that scenario to avoid any other obvious GM blunders. Thoughts?

He won't. Washed up system QB will disappoint in next gig -- here or there.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He won't. Washed up system QB will disappoint in next gig -- here or there.

Can’t believe I have to dig up responses from 15 years ago, but here goes.

Can you describe the actual “system” that Brady plays in and why it is different from the “non-system” QBs?

 

[maust]

He won't. Washed up system QB will disappoint in next gig -- here or there.

Hopefully that fulfilled your need

 

[Biffins]

I ran the numbers some time ago. It’s true.

You cannot find a same-division 3 team combination with a worse combined record than Buf/Mia/NYJ over the past 19 years.

Again this is inaccurate excluding their losses to the Parriots

 

[PatsFanInVa]

He won't. Washed up system QB will disappoint in next gig -- here or there.

BB? System Coach. Overrated.

Hey anybody else note with pride the GEICO "Raccoons" commercial that starts with one guy saying "He's a systems quarterback!"

That's clearly a Brady non-sequitur to open it.

 

[sb1]

When was the last time since 2002 you thought to yourself "Man, _____ team could threaten the Pats for the division title?" Yeah, I haven't asked that myself either.

From the Patriots perspective, the AFC East has been weak.

Weak compared to the Patriots yes. Weak in general- eh dunno about that. Maybe. Its definitely not the reason for the Pats success at least.

 

[sb1]

BB had the team go 11-5 with Cassel and 3-1 during Brady’s BS suspension.

I don’t think anyone should downplay Bill’s contribution to Brady’s career.

 

[Uptown]

Brady and BB’s success go hand in hand. Every great QB had an excellent/great coach and vice versa. History proves it. Simple as that. End of story.

 

[sb1]

Without Brady, here is BB’s track record. I agree he is a phenomenal coach/GM, but this narrative is crazy.

1991 Cleveland - 6-10 Missed Postseason
1992 Cleveland - 7-9 Missed Postseason
1993 Cleveland - 7-9 Missed Postseason
1994 Cleveland - 11-5 Won Wild Card
1995 Cleveland - 5-11 Missed Postseason*
2000 New England - 5-11 Missed Postseason
2008 New England - 11-5 Missed Postseason

That’s 1 postseason appearance/win in 7 seasons.

With Brady, 17 postseason appearances in 18 seasons.

Let’s see him actually succeed without Brady before crowning him best coach ever.

What about 11-5 with Cassel and 3-1 with a green JG and Brissett?

Also added an asterisk to the above because it’s important to note that the Browns had a winning record before Modell pulled the plug on the franchise. That wasn’t on Bill. He took a team that was devoid of talent and built a team on the verge of a SB contender until he was interrupted by the end of the franchise. W-L there doesn’t tell the whole story.

 

[XLIX]

Again this is inaccurate excluding their losses to the Parriots

If you have to cherry pick your way towards completely eliminating 114 games to make your point, then you have a very weak point.

 

[XLIX]

BB had the team go 11-5 with Cassel

Which was 5 games worse than the previous season with mostly the same team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

BB had the team go 11-5 with Cassel and 3-1 during Brady’s BS suspension.

I don’t think anyone should downplay Bill’s contribution to Brady’s career.

A 14-6 record with two of the best Patriots teams ever. What about the additional non-Brady 5-13 Patriots tenure?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What about 11-5 with Cassel and 3-1 with a green JG and Brissett?

Also added an asterisk to the above because it’s important to note that the Browns had a winning record before Modell pulled the plug on the franchise. That wasn’t on Bill. He took a team that was devoid of talent and built a team on the verge of a SB contender until he was interrupted by the end of the franchise. W-L there doesn’t tell the whole story.

Do other coaches get woulda shoulda coulda wins too?

 

[sb1]

Which was 5 games worse than the previous season with mostly the same team.

Cassel certainly wasn’t an upgrade over Brady but Bill being coach was a very large reason why they were 11-5 and not the reverse of that.

Look what happened to the Colts when they lost Manning and had a subpar coach. Doubt that happens if they had BB.

 

[sb1]

Do other coaches get woulda shoulda coulda wins too?

in this case it was a very significant woulda shoulda coulda that shouldn’t be ignored. It was a dead franchise walking. Doubt other coaches would do any better in those circumstances.