Will anyone watch the XFL this weekend?

[primetime]

I don't even particularly care for Kaepernick, I just think it's silly to take at face value that people posting blurry memes on social media about how they'd stop watching the NFL actually stopped watching the NFL because they were offended by some kneeling dudes.

For what it's worth, I doubt Kaepernick and the XFL had anything close to a serious discussion; he makes plenty of money without beating up his body and controlling labor costs is hugely important to the XFL's viability (it's even possible the terms of his settlement, like an NFL contract, had language about other pro leagues). But I'm sure the XFL put out all sorts of feelers to guys like Kaepernick, Tebow, and others who might have driven storylines. (Manziel, at this point, isn't such a guy.)

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't even particularly care for Kaepernick, I just think it's silly to take at face value that people posting blurry memes on social media about how they'd stop watching the NFL actually stopped watching the NFL because they were offended by some kneeling dudes.

It happened. Whether you think it's silly or not is irrelevant to the fact that it happened.

 

[lancerman]

It happened. Whether you think it's silly or not is irrelevant to the fact that it happened.

Then why was the decline happening before and why did the trend reverse much later?

Listen every fan put their personal pet peeve down to the rating decline. I've seen people blame it on the refs, the catch rule, how they protect QB's, that the Patriots keep winning, etc. There's no more evidence that it was any of those things than it was that it was Kaepernick.

The reality is the NFL experienced continous growth for an unprecedented amount of time in the modern tv landscape and then at a very high point, hit a slightly lower point. During that same period they signed record breaking television contracts. So clearly the networks weren't concerened and their is no real correlation between the start and end of the dip with Kaep.

 

[primetime]

It happened. Whether you think it's silly or not is irrelevant to the fact that it happened.

Nope

 

[Kontradiction]

When I agree with something the NFL does, it's a coldly rational decision based on mining data and some other stuff I read about on Wikipedia. When I disagree with something the NFL does, it's the result of 32 moronic authoritarians with idiosyncratic and often bizarre personal beliefs swatting at every fly they see with a hammer because they didn't like the way that guy looked at them, just completely disrespectful.

I’ve already been on record in this thread as stating they don’t care about their players. That should be obvious to anyone who pays attention to the CBA negotiations. They DO care about their revenues, though. And while someone that works in a union capacity for a “living” and commands a staggering $42K per year salary may use Wikipedia for info on data mining, I don’t. My knowledge comes from obtaining an MBA, post graduate training in the form of a Six Sigma black belt, 5 years as a BA, and 3 years as a project manager. I, quite literally, do this for a living. Not that it should take a project manager to tell you that firms, and this includes the NFL, analyze data for policy shifts which impact their customers/audience or to find out why revenues increase or decline. In 2020, that should be pretty damn close to common sense.

Also, don’t be a candyass. Quote my post next time. This is the internet. I’m not going to beat you up.

 

[primetime]

I’ve already been on record in this thread as stating they don’t care about their players. That should be obvious to anyone who pays attention to the CBA negotiations. They DO care about their revenues, though. And while someone that works in a union capacity for a “living” and commands a staggering $42K per year salary may use Wikipedia for info on data mining, I don’t. My knowledge comes from obtaining an MBA, post graduate training in the form of a Six Sigma black belt, 5 years as a BA, and 3 years as a project manager. I, quite literally, do this for a living. Not that it should take a project manager to tell you that firms, and this includes the NFL, analyze data for policy shifts which impact their customers/audience or to find out why revenues increase or decline. In 2020, that should be pretty damn close to common sense.

Also, don’t be a candyass. Quote my post next time. This is the internet. I’m not going to beat you up.

lol bruh I have a PhD in a quantitative social science and do statistics for a living, you may want to make sure your spreadsheet on Patsfans posters is accurate (and figure out how unions work) if you're gonna try to "I do this for a LIVING" to every poster who walks by because "the NFL uses AWS ergo they mine consumer segment data, ergo every decision they make is based on THE DATA" is a weird one to me, you keep saying "data mining" like it's anything more than a buzzword

They clearly do market research surveys, someone posted about it in here, but those are subject to incredible amounts of response bias (response rates are usually rounding errors and the people most likely to respond are those with the most extreme views about a product) and don't tell you anything about how that actually affects behavior. Most everything about rating fluctuations from year to year is guesswork, and since ratings are samples, there's a certain amount of statistical fluctuation that's to be expected. The NFL makes decisions based on the small-p politics between a board of 32 supposedly equal franchises; the money keeps flowing no matter what they do, so they can do whatever they want. I just don't see any evidence that the ratings decreases in the Kaepernick year were anything other than ordinary statistical fluctuation, given that they had been decreasing prior to that and then rebounded two years after it. But it gave ESPN and fan forums something to talk about.

 

[Kontradiction]

Just to keep count, here is what you have acknowledged so far as being true...

1. The NFL mines data.

2. The NFL mines marketing data and, hence, specific consumer segment data.

You’ve already cornered yourself. Here’s what you’re now left to fall back on (your Alamo, if you will)...

3. The NFL does not analyze data to study revenue growth and decline.

4. The NFL does not analyze data for policy shifts which could have a negative or positive impact on their viewing audience.

You’re getting there. Slowly but surely. But this debate is already over. You’ve yielded too much ground.

Point to one analytically driven independent study that confirms your hypothesis. Stop not offering specifics and then saying “well you won’t except anything anyways”

LMAOOOOOOO. I already did. You’ve just proven my point in my original response to you - you won’t read or accept anything that contradicts your emotionally-driven opinion. I guess you missed the CBS link. I look forward to you telling me that study wasn’t data-based. Please do. I could use the laugh.

Also to answer your questions

1. The deal was basically free money for the NFL. Both sides easily could live without it. Btw when the President who appoints the head of the Department (my mistake I meant DOD btw) is screaming at the NFL do you really need a source on the deal being at risk. That’s a more specific correlation backed up by fact than anything you offered btw.

Yikes. You just destroyed the central thesis of your counter argument. If the deal was free money for both sides, and “both sides could easily live without it,” (your words), why would the NFL care about the DoD ripping up the deal? That’s a rhetorical question. They wouldn’t. But point taken... you don’t have any sources to back up this assertion. So we can safely put this away and go back to working toward the fact that the NFL pivoted on their policy regarding the players’ rights to kneel based on what they analyzed regarding revenue and ratings declines.

2. I’m on record saying that companies much bigger than the NFL mans decisions based off the perception of an issue than hard analysis that an issue exists. The NFL isn’t the biggest business out there. You are assuming the methodology and sound reasoning of the decision but have provided nothing to back you up on this and we’ve already seen the NFL make decisions that tend to go against hard analysis.

We did? Which decisions specifically regarding revenue losses and policy did the NFL go against hard analysis on? Could you back this up a bit with a link? I’m legitimately interested. Normally in this day and age, if you’re going to institute a policy that’s politically-driven, reactionary, and bound to negatively impact at least half of your customer base, you make that decision based on hard analysis that’s done via mining data. Surveys, complaints, patterns, etc. But please do share any links that support that last sentence. Where have “we seen that?”

Also don’t put words in my mouth. It’s perfectly valid to suggest the NFL data mines but doesn’t make every decision based on a thorough data driven analysis.

Nobody said they make every decision based on analyzing data. The point is that policy changes, which the NFL’s pivot absolutely was, and issues regarding reasons behind revenue losses are data-driven. Do you really think the NFL didn’t outsource other firms to collect surveys, for example, from their audience to analyze their viewing and purchasing habits and ask why they either fell off or increased? Of course not. You’re not naive. You know this. But you’re having an emotional reaction to this and are merely unable to admit it outright.

Also the kneeling issue itself was working itself out by every statistic anyways so....

What statistic? Source?

3. Why do I think the ratings came back up? Influx of new stars, coming off a year of record offense, and that the ratings didn’t drop too much to begin with and it was likely just more of an ebb and flow after years of continuous growth. But again you are free to provide counter data since you are the one making the assertion.

Already did. The ratings fell 8% between 2015 and 2016. CBS, the far right institution that they are , cited Kaep and the NFL’s former policy on kneeling, as being a factor in that decline. Like I said in my OP, you didn’t want to accept that. You’re proving me right so far.

You have a very naive understanding of how businesses come to decisions.

The sales guy is telling he project manager that he has a naive understanding of how businesses come to decisions.

It would be nice if they were all based on hard data analysis. Most don’t.

This is you constructing a straw man because you know you’re getting your ass kicked here. I never said businesses make all decisions based on an analysis of consumer-driven data. I DID state that they make policy changes and study revenue gains and declines using consumer-driven data. The NFL used The Kraft Group for this. Hell, the lounge at Gillette came from consumer-driven data analysis. They do it. Consumer segment and buying data comes from studying marketing data. So yes, the NFL does this.

I accused you of being emotional because you made this giant argument based on an assumption that we both know you can’t back up and quite frankly isn’t the standard on how most businesses operate

So we’re back to the start - do you really think the NFL made such an unpopular and risky pivot that could alienate the other half of their audience based on a whim? Or do you think it’s more likely that they studied consumer segment data on why revenue and ratings declines were happening before they decided to make a politically-driven decision that they formerly backed? What do you think is more probable?

 

[primetime]

Not even sure what this thread is about anymore, the offseason whips ass

 

[Kontradiction]

lol bruh I have a PhD in a quantitative social science and do statistics for a living, you may want to make sure your spreadsheet on Patsfans posters is accurate (and figure out how unions work) if you're gonna try to "I do this for a LIVING" to every poster who walks by because "the NFL uses AWS ergo they mine consumer segment data

You edited this into a massive run-on sentence, Professor. Imagine having a PhD and doing statistics for a living and not knowing how businesses use their consumer data.

ergo every decision they make is based on THE DATA" is a weird one to me

I said that every decision a business makes is based on data analysis? Where did I contend that? Could you quote it? Or was this just a worthless straw man tossed out because you’re in over your head here?

They clearly do market research surveys,

Thanks for admitting this. And, uh, they wouldn’t use said surveys to study changes in buying and viewership patterns? Of course they would. Always nice to watch someone torpedo their own argument.

someone posted about it in here, but those are subject to incredible amounts of response bias (response rates are usually rounding errors and the people most likely to respond are those with the most extreme views about a product) and don't tell you anything about how that actually affects behavior. Most everything about rating fluctuations from year to year is guesswork, and since ratings are samples, there's a certain amount of statistical fluctuation that's to be expected.

Not necessarily. There are instances where where purchasing patterns can tell you about a change in behavior and why that changed happen. There are also instances where consumer response data doesn’t tell you anything either and you won’t be able to analyze any of it with 100% confidence. None of this disputes my original contention that the NFL looked at this before they pivoted on their policy re: kneeling being a choice of the players.

The NFL makes decisions based on the small-p politics between a board of 32 supposedly equal franchises; the money keeps flowing no matter what they do, so they can do whatever they want. I just don't see any evidence that the ratings decreases in the Kaepernick year were anything other than ordinary statistical fluctuation, given that they had been decreasing prior to that and then rebounded two years after it. But it gave ESPN and fan forums something to talk about.

Then why did they originally back the players and their rights to kneel if they saw fit before pivoting the very next offseason in a move that, by design, was sure to draw the ire of them and fans alike? This contention makes no sense. If they were making decisions off of “small-p politics,” (and I won’t even get into what the stereotypical white liberal looks like) why wouldn’t they have just 86’d it right from the get-go? Here’s why - they didn’t have anything to work off of yet that showed them how this stance was losing them eyeballs and profits.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not even sure what this thread is about anymore, the offseason whips ass

Really? I couldn’t tell.

 

[1960Pats]

I wonder if this thread will get back to the topic at hand anytime soon? These two man back and forth arguments are extremely repetitive and boring. They also give me a finger cramp from having to spin the mouse wheel quickly enough to avoid reading any of them.

I've watched a few minutes of a few games. I was very skeptical at first but the games have grown on me enough to give them a chance.

 

[primetime]

You edited this into a massive run-on sentence, Professor. Imagine having a PhD and doing statistics for a living and not knowing how businesses use their consumer data.



I said that every decision a business makes is based on data analysis? Where did I contend that? Could you quote it? Or was this just a worthless straw man tossed out because you’re in over your head here?



Thanks for admitting this. And, uh, they wouldn’t use said surveys to study changes in buying and viewership patterns? Of course they would. Always nice to watch someone torpedo their own argument.



Not necessarily. There are instances where where purchasing patterns can tell you about a change in behavior and why that changed happen. There are also instances where consumer response data doesn’t tell you anything either and you won’t be able to analyze any of it with 100% confidence. None of this disputes my original contention that the NFL looked at this before they pivoted on their policy re: kneeling being a choice of the players.



Then why did they originally back the players and their rights to kneel if they saw fit before pivoting the very next offseason in a move that, by design, was sure to draw the ire of them and fans alike? This contention makes no sense. If they were making decisions off of “small-p politics,” (and I won’t even get into what the stereotypical white liberal looks like) why wouldn’t they have just 86’d it right from the get-go? Here’s why - they didn’t have anything to work off of yet that showed them how this stance was losing them eyeballs and profits.

Yeah what I'm saying is "they have data, and they made a decision" is true but "that decision was based on data" is inferring beyond the limits of your evidence because there are all sorts of competing hypotheses for why that decision was made. In any case this argument and your effortposting is excessively boring for me and for everyone in this thread so I'm tapping out of it.

I think DC has the best uniforms in the XFL, but I kind of like Tampa's despite their "early 2000s college team" vibe.

 

[lancerman]

Not even sure what this thread is about anymore, the offseason whips ass

It’s just Kontra making false correlations and trying to pretend that because he may work in data analytics that he has a clue how a group of owners make business decisions.

He said the NFL has AWS as though that satisfies his assumption. You won’t find a company over 100 million in revenue that doesn’t have AWS or a competitor. Most just use it for storage. He said I needed proof the DOD deal was in jeopardy, but the head of the branch of the federal government the DOD falls under screaming for weeks about it wasn’t proof (when he offered nothing himself in the way of specifics to how the NFL made this decision).

Its pretty bad and absolutely weightless to anyone whose ever had to deal with corporate decision making

 

[Kontradiction]

It’s just Kontra making false correlations and trying to pretend that because he may work in data analytics that he has a clue how a group of owners make business decisions.

He said the NFL has AWS as though that satisfies his assumption.

No. I used them as an example of the fact that the NFL collects, and analyzes, data because it was the most well-known example. Remember that I’m talking to someone here who didn’t seem to be aware of that fact nor does he seem to be aware of the kind of data they would collect and analyze. And this is especially troubling considering you’re supposedly a salesman in the field.

You won’t find a company over 100 million in revenue that doesn’t have AWS or a competitor. Most just use it for storage. He said I needed proof the DOD deal was in jeopardy, but the head of the branch of the federal government the DOD falls under screaming for weeks about it wasn’t proof (when he offered nothing himself in the way of specifics to how the NFL made this decision).

who gets more out of that relationship than the NFL does as they use it for recruiting while the NFL uses it for marketing, and was ready to rip up the contract. That’s, uh, not how the federal government works. It was a baseless claim that you definitely should have been able to source if you were going to try to use it in an argument. You can’t source it, though, because that was never reported. So on top of accusing me of not knowing how companies make decisions regarding policy or answers to fluctuations in revenue (LMAO), you then went and pinned the reasoning behind the pivot on something that was never reported to have happened. Genius. Pure genius. This is even better than last time. Please keep this going. It’s comedy gold.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah what I'm saying is "they have data, and they made a decision" is true but "that decision was based on data" is inferring beyond the limits of your evidence because there are all sorts of competing hypotheses for why that decision was made.

I’m not interested in hypotheses. Those will be, and have been, easy to shoot holes through because 1) the hypotheses being tossed out are not how businesses make policy-related decisions/changes in this day and age, and 2) they do nothing to explain why the owners would verbally back a player’s right to kneel before walking it back.

In any case this argument and your effortposting is excessively boring for me and for everyone in this thread so I'm tapping out of it.

That was truly a great story. Thank you for telling it.

 

[Kontradiction]

I wonder if this thread will get back to the topic at hand anytime soon? These two man back and forth arguments are extremely repetitive and boring. They also give me a finger cramp from having to spin the mouse wheel quickly enough to avoid reading any of them.

I've watched a few minutes of a few games. I was very skeptical at first but the games have grown on me enough to give them a chance.

Maybe I’ll throw a little razzle dazzle on the thread and delete it. In any event, I’ve reported your post. Watch yourself.

 

[lancerman]

Throughout this entire exchange you have failed to show any work or evidence that the NFL made their decision via data mining and a thorough evaluation of data. It was the only thing that would have made your silly deflection novels worth it.

It’s very transparent when someone makes a criticism and then the criticized spends an abundance of effort doing everything but addressing it.

You failed and wasted time. Go try to put on an internet performance to feel intelligent to someone who can’t see through blatant bs.

 

[Kontradiction]

Throughout this entire exchange you have failed to show any work or evidence that the NFL made their decision via data mining and a thorough evaluation of data. It was the only thing that would have made your silly deflection novels worth it.

Wait, you need proof that a business mines data prior to making any policy decisions or changes re: revenue fluctuations? And you were confused about why I didn’t take this conversation seriously from the get-go? Maybe start by referencing what data The Kraft Group was mining on the NFL’s behalf. Of course, this would require a starting knowledge on what a business like the NFL mines data for in the first place, but I think I’ve provided you with good examples of that throughout the thread even though they were outright ignored. Happy hunting.

It’s very transparent when someone makes a criticism and then the criticized spends an abundance of effort doing everything but addressing it.

Could you be specific on what criticism I didn’t address? Let me guess... “eVeRyThInG.”

You failed and wasted time. Go try to put on an internet performance to feel intelligent to someone who can’t see through blatant bs.

, and failed to produce anything of substance after that to back up said point, these two sentences are so rich that they could purchase Amazon outright. You’re killing it. Please keep this up. This is great.

 

[lancerman]

Wait, you need proof that a business mines data prior to making any policy decisions or changes re: revenue fluctuations? And you were confused about why I didn’t take this conversation seriously from the get-go? Maybe start by referencing what data The Kraft Group was mining on the NFL’s behalf. Of course, this would require a starting knowledge on what a business like the NFL mines data for in the first place, but I think I’ve provided you with good examples of that throughout the thread even though they were outright ignored. Happy hunting.



Could you be specific on what criticism I didn’t address? Let me guess... “eVeRyThInG.”

Cool story, don’t have time to read it

 

[TheAdultintheRoom]

It's still unclear to me how asking either

A. to be able to watch sports without being subjected to CK's idiotic political opinions
or
B. for a modicum of respect to be shown to fellow citizens and the community we are all a part of

makes people "miserable" and "the worst people in the country."