Should the Patriots dumb down the offense for the young WRs

[primetime]

How much can that get coached? My hunch is it is very coachable. Dont' count this kid out guys. FFS. We are 10-2. We have been in much worse positions. We can go into Baltimore and punch them in the mouth. It will make it all the more sweet.

Rookie wide receivers traditionally didn't put up big numbers because it's a hard position to learn in the NFL. Remember when the likes of Anquan Boldin and Marques Colston and Michael Clayton having huge seasons were huge surprises? Those days have slipped away a bit, with guys like Beckham and Thomas putting up huge rookie years, but this year is pretty illustrative. The biggest numbers from a rookie receiver are likely to be from Terry McLaurin, and he's going to end with about 60 catches while playing nearly every snap (albeit on a putrid passing team). AJ Brown, Deebo Samuel, and Marquise Brown have been erratic game-to-game, with a couple big ones but mostly just quiet 2 or 3 catch games. Samuel hadn't really done anything of note until week 9 and has had a few good games since.

DJ Chark had 14 unremarkable and scoreless receptions last season. He's on pace for 75 this year and might end up leading the league in touchdown receptions. Keep the faith for a bit.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think Meyers is doing just fine...if this were a team of the past with Edelgronk, he’d be shining in a more complementary role. He now has about 300 yards on 35 targets, and I think Brady likes him, though obviously there are some growing pains that are being shown in a very public way. He attacks the ball and is aggressive; yes, he makes some rookie mistakes and clearly has some big gaps in his knowledge, but that’s to be expected...I’m pleasantly surprised that he can indeed play with the big boys and the preseason wasn’t just some fluke against inferior competition.

Harry...it sucked when they IR’d him, and I hope this wasn’t a case of “stashing” him where he could have played, or played in a couple of weeks, but they basically half-season red shirted him instead. I don’t know that with any certainty...it just seemed to fit in with where the roster was at the time, his early struggles, and an injury which may or may not have really been a two month recovery timeframe. But it’s very hard to imagine this guy doing much this year. I’ll be surprised if he plays a lot going forward. As luuked pointed out, many of us hoped he could at least be a red zone guy and have some plays designed for him. He is looking now like maybe even that isn’t worth it.

There’s a lot of guys who aren’t playing well who are veterans and should be better.

Ridiculous drop by Sanu early in the game when he had at least eight yards and plenty of space...ball wasn’t perfect but he was so well known for his hands. Just a pitiful catch attempt. Then fair catching a ball at the four yard line??

Burkhead has been terrible as a pass catcher, as everything seems to bounce off his hands.

LaCosse sucks at everything, so you’d think he could at least hold on to a Charmin soft ball leading him perfectly in the chest.

Don’t let Watson’s big play detract you from the fact that he isn’t good and isn’t a reliable target either.

How could Sony Michel not just do pass catching drills for hours and hours at practice, considering that’s a major weakness and badly hurts the offense? In year two, he should be an asset out of the backfield and not a coin flip on whether or not he can catch a three yard lob.

The offense literally has no screen passes anymore. I don’t know why. I would like to see Meyers and Dorsett (maybe Harry?) get the ball on some designed screens, since they can do some damage after the catch. It also would keep the defense guessing a little more. Fake end arounds with these guys would add a little misdirection too. Don’t feel like this team is trying to be very creative even with the limited options.

 

[slash83]

Their first round prize couldn’t run a quick slant, what’s more simpler than that.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I was thinking about this same thing.

Some of the difficult of dumbing it down has already been noted. But I think there's something else that needs to be considered.

This system allows the receivers to get a little better separation based on the option routes. All of the receivers not named Edelman need as much separation as they can get, so dumbing it down would make a bad situation worse. The Patriots don't retain the fastest receivers (obligatory he who should not be named comment coming), but rather look for smarts, good hands and either quickness or the ability to win contested catches. They *need* to run their system in order to succeed as best as possible in the passing game.

 

[Uptown]

If by “dumb down” the offense, you mean
re-signing AB, I’m all for it!

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Dorsett isn't young, and he and TB were as out of sync as anybody else was with TB.

The argument that players off the street won't be able to familiarize themselves with Brady quick enough falls apart when guys like Dorsett have little to no chemistry.

Next man up, all the way. If the offense is abhorent, then fire some people and keep churning the roster with guys off the street. With how dreadful things have been excluding Edelman, what's the harm in trying something new?

 

[neuronet]

I think Meyers is doing just fine...if this were a team of the past with Edelgronk, he’d be shining in a more complementary role. He now has about 300 yards on 35 targets, and I think Brady likes him, though obviously there are some growing pains that are being shown in a very public way. He attacks the ball and is aggressive; yes, he makes some rookie mistakes and clearly has some big gaps in his knowledge, but that’s to be expected...I’m pleasantly surprised that he can indeed play with the big boys and the preseason wasn’t just some fluke against inferior competition.

Harry...it sucked when they IR’d him, and I hope this wasn’t a case of “stashing” him where he could have played, or played in a couple of weeks, but they basically half-season red shirted him instead. I don’t know that with any certainty...it just seemed to fit in with where the roster was at the time, his early struggles, and an injury which may or may not have really been a two month recovery timeframe. But it’s very hard to imagine this guy doing much this year. I’ll be surprised if he plays a lot going forward. As luuked pointed out, many of us hoped he could at least be a red zone guy and have some plays designed for him. He is looking now like maybe even that isn’t worth it.

There’s a lot of guys who aren’t playing well who are veterans and should be better.

Ridiculous drop by Sanu early in the game when he had at least eight yards and plenty of space...ball wasn’t perfect but he was so well known for his hands. Just a pitiful catch attempt. Then fair catching a ball at the four yard line??

Burkhead has been terrible as a pass catcher, as everything seems to bounce off his hands.

LaCosse sucks at everything, so you’d think he could at least hold on to a Charmin soft ball leading him perfectly in the chest.

Don’t let Watson’s big play detract you from the fact that he isn’t good and isn’t a reliable target either.

How could Sony Michel not just do pass catching drills for hours and hours at practice, considering that’s a major weakness and badly hurts the offense? In year two, he should be an asset out of the backfield and not a coin flip on whether or not he can catch a three yard lob.

The offense literally has no screen passes anymore. I don’t know why. I would like to see Meyers and Dorsett (maybe Harry?) get the ball on some designed screens, since they can do some damage after the catch. It also would keep the defense guessing a little more. Fake end arounds with these guys would add a little misdirection too. Don’t feel like this team is trying to be very creative even with the limited options.

Hey man I usually agree with you but I think you are being a bit pessimistic. Watson has been having good plays just about every game. Sanu is playing hurt right now. Michel is a very good RB. I agree Meyers is very good, sort of out of nowhere from early on.

We are not peaking quite at the right time. Maybe. The right time to peak is in January, so it is frankly hard to tell.

 

[IllegalContact]

Why not? They dumbed the offense for Brady when he was first out there

 

[Deus Irae]

Rookie wide receivers traditionally didn't put up big numbers because it's a hard position to learn in the NFL. Remember when the likes of Anquan Boldin and Marques Colston and Michael Clayton having huge seasons were huge surprises? Those days have slipped away a bit, with guys like Beckham and Thomas putting up huge rookie years, but this year is pretty illustrative. The biggest numbers from a rookie receiver are likely to be from Terry McLaurin, and he's going to end with about 60 catches while playing nearly every snap (albeit on a putrid passing team). AJ Brown, Deebo Samuel, and Marquise Brown have been erratic game-to-game, with a couple big ones but mostly just quiet 2 or 3 catch games. Samuel hadn't really done anything of note until week 9 and has had a few good games since.

DJ Chark had 14 unremarkable and scoreless receptions last season. He's on pace for 75 this year and might end up leading the league in touchdown receptions. Keep the faith for a bit.

The general ineffectiveness of rookie WRs seems to be another reality that has escaped a lot of people on the board this year, for whatever reason(s).

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

The general ineffectiveness of rookie WRs seems to be another reality that has escaped a lot of people on the board this year, for whatever reason(s).

It’s difficult for rookie wrs which comes back to dorsett and sanu who combine for 29 yards together. How pathetic is that?! Not much good depth.

 

[Wingy]

Happened a bit in the Dallas game as well. I remember Brady getting called for grounding on a play where he expected Phil to break outside but cut in. Not a great trend.

The problems with Dorsett are concerning to me because I feel like he has had Tom’s trust for a long time. Now all of a sudden they’re out of sync. Hard to explain.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The general ineffectiveness of rookie WRs seems to be another reality that has escaped a lot of people on the board this year, for whatever reason(s).

agreed, like there’s been so many rookie sensations over the last 30 years. So many that we can probably count them on two hands.

 

[Deus Irae]

It’s difficult for rookie wrs which comes back to dorsett and sanu who combine for 29 yards together. How pathetic is that?! Not much good depth.

It really depends on the "why" of Dorsett and Sanu struggling. I mean, the team had Harry as the starter. Was that because of limited practice time and/or lingering effects for Dorsett/Sanu, or was that just the coaching staff doing something needless and silly?

 

[Deus Irae]

agreed, like there’s been so many rookie sensations over the last 30 years. So many that we can probably count them on two hands.

Yeah, it's not as if rookie WRs can't impress. But we, as Patriots fans, should understand that even a good rookie season is usually like WR2-WR3 stuff. Deion had an impressive rookie season in 2002, and it still only totaled out to 43 receptions in 13 games. And even that was probably a bit inflated, since it happened during the era where the Patriots were using the WR screens as a form of running play substitute.

 

[bormio]

It’s fine to crap all over the rookies for their mistakes, but at the end of the day, we need them to perform well if the team is going to reach its goal. Dorsett has never been a volume receiver and Sanu is hurt. So it makes sense to devise game plans that emphasize their strengths.

 

[fightingirish595]

Even though some genius posters claim "there is no EP" , the system is the system. There is no "dumbing down".

Also not one person gave an example of how you would "dumb down" the offense.

*edit*
NEP is absolutely complex but you're fooling yourself if you think we're the only team running it. Pro/college.

Obviously our tendencies, reads, variations will be different but it's not learning the offense that's the problem. Its getting on the same page as Brady which is more difficult than learning a "system".

The Giants with Gilbride. So many options in his offense. Granted they were not very good at it

 

[Deus Irae]

It’s fine to crap all over the rookies for their mistakes, but at the end of the day, we need them to perform well if the team is going to reach its goal. Dorsett has never been a volume receiver and Sanu is hurt. So it makes sense to devise game plans that emphasize their strengths.

Cool.

1. What are Harry's strengths, as of now?
2. What are Meyer's strengths, as of now?

 

[bormio]

Cool.

1. What are Harry's strengths, as of now?
2. What are Meyer's strengths, as of now?

Yeah, they are good at nothing. Guess that is why Bill signed them. Or maybe Bill is an idiot.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, they are good at nothing. Guess that is why Bill signed them. Or maybe Bill is an idiot.

???

You made a claim:

it makes sense to devise game plans that emphasize their strengths

So I'm asking you a simple question in response: what are those strengths, as of right now?

 

[bormio]

???

You made a claim:



So I'm asking you a simple question in response: what are those strengths, as of right now?

What I think about their abilities is meaningless. The coaching staff is learning what they are good at and what they are struggling with. The point is both are likely to play significant minutes, so we should make those minutes as productive as possible, by putting them in positions where they can succeed. Makes no sense to ask them to do things IN GAMES that they are not yet ready to do. Whining about how bad they are with 4 weeks to go before the playoffs seems useless - the coaches need to work on improving them - as they are doing.