Should the Patriots dumb down the offense for the young WRs

[Biffins]

I think it is pretty well known that the Patriots' offense is a lot more complex than most offenses, and causes a lot of vets and rookies alike to flame out because they don't get it. This is great if you have the personnel that are familiar with the system and get it. However, it's not so great when you are relying on rookies and guys you've traded for only a couple of weeks ago.

A lot of teams are very successful with much more simplified offenses. Is it time the Patriots dumbed down their playbook to get the young guys more involved?

i thought we did dumb it down. We had Tom pointing during the play where to run too........

 

[Ivan]

Let's change 20 years of success so a few dopey 22 year olds can catch some passes.

I don’t think that’s his point at all, and I agree with the idea that Brady needs to take some responsibility by simply getting the ball to the open man instead of always expecting everyone to be precisely where he wants them to be. Plenty of QB’s do this every week and he can do it as well.

 

[Kontradiction]

Even though some genius posters claim "there is no EP" , the system is the system. There is no "dumbing down".

Also not one person gave an example of how you would "dumb down" the offense.

I just did but I’m not sure it meets the definition of “dumbing down” the offense.

 

[luuked]

Also not one person gave an example of how you would "dumb down" the offense.

The only way to "dumb it down" would be to prune plays or adjustments that McD/BB/Brady have added over the years to specific looks but that would take the teeth out of the system. It is literally not possible to do that without making the offense less effective.

What else is there ? Reduce number of option routes to make them easier to understand ? lol..

What Kontra is saying about rookies/players without a total grasp getting only a certain slice of the offense and then continue to be used only in those concepts is already a big compromise and it shows.

Like you are saying. The system is the system and the playbook is the playbook.

 

[archstanton543]

Yeah Harry the gentle giant looked real great last night one on one on that slant that went for a pick 6. Not because you are Big in Statue doesn't mean you are a automatic TD mismatch in the RZ. First you have to know how to use or leverage your body Harry is having issues with that.

That didn't go for a pick 6. The Texans scored a TD on the ensuing drive but they didn't score on the pick.

 

[Soliel]

I think it is pretty well known that the Patriots' offense is a lot more complex than most offenses, and causes a lot of vets and rookies alike to flame out because they don't get it. This is great if you have the personnel that are familiar with the system and get it. However, it's not so great when you are relying on rookies and guys you've traded for only a couple of weeks ago.

A lot of teams are very successful with much more simplified offenses. Is it time the Patriots dumbed down their playbook to get the young guys more involved?

No. How far can you dumb it down when guys can’t even read hand signals?

 

[PatsFan2]

On a positive note Jakobi Meyers is Trending up ^ I know they were injuries but 17 Targets in Two weeks and a few called back because of penalties.

 

[Angelpats]

Dorsett isn't young, and he and TB were as out of sync as anybody else was with TB.

You would think with the need we have for a very fast wr, Dorsett would fill it, but his game speed is not impressive. He also not consistent enough.

 

[Angelpats]

On a positive note Jakobi Meyers is Trending up ^ I know they were injuries but 17 Targets in Two weeks and a few called back because of penalties.

People always dislike it what I say this but Meyers might turn out to be the better of the wrs we took this draft. Good hands and speed, just had a brain fart on a couple of plays.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I just did but I’m not sure it meets the definition of “dumbing down” the offense.

Yea I'd say we're limiting our playbook 100%.

When I hear "dumb down" I think of something totally different.

We might be calling easier concepts but we're still running our stuff. Again we're just not opening the playbook for obvious reasons.

 

[karguy85]

I don’t think that’s his point at all, and I agree with the idea that Brady needs to take some responsibility by simply getting the ball to the open man instead of always expecting everyone to be precisely where he wants them to be. Plenty of QB’s do this every week and he can do it as well.

Exactly! A lot of the Patriots' scheme is based on wide receivers knowing different options based on what the defense is showing/doing. Everyone knows how long it can take QBs/WRs to be able to accurately identify every defensive formation, and then choose the correct option. With a WR corps that includes a few young guys that are integral to the success of the offense, maybe allowing them to run a simplified version where they can just run their route will lead to success. It is clear that as of right now, the current scheme is not working well for the young guys.

I was just asking the question because I think it's debatable. I am by no means saying that simplifying the offense is the correct way to go.

 

[PatsFan2]

It was noted that Dorsett ran the wrong route last night in a certain series. A vet who's been here three years shouldn't be running the wrong route knowing how Brady is a perfectionist. Hope he's not still suffering from that concussion.

 

[Deus Irae]

Even though some genius posters claim "there is no EP" , the system is the system. There is no "dumbing down".

Also not one person gave an example of how you would "dumb down" the offense.

*edit*
NEP is absolutely complex but you're fooling yourself if you think we're the only team running it. Pro/college.

Obviously our tendencies, reads, variations will be different but it's not learning the offense that's the problem. Its getting on the same page as Brady which is more difficult than learning a "system".

This is why I often say that Brady is the system. Nobody else in history has ever run this offense, because it's unique to the QB (and his relative strengths and weaknesses), modified by the OCs and HC. And I think that's why BB seemed so intrigued by JAG, as he seemed to be able to process in a manner similar to Brady

 

[Deus Irae]

No. How far can you dumb it down when guys can’t even read hand signals?

This. I don't see how "dumb it down" is coming into play this week, when we were watching a pair of receivers who screwed up something that a bunch of weekend players can pick up after a 5 second discussion.

 

[neuronet]

Yeah Harry the gentle giant looked real great last night one on one on that slant that went for a pick 6. Not because you are Big in Statue doesn't mean you are a automatic TD mismatch in the RZ. First you have to know how to use or leverage your body Harry is having issues with that.

How much can that get coached? My hunch is it is very coachable. Dont' count this kid out guys. FFS. We are 10-2. We have been in much worse positions. We can go into Baltimore and punch them in the mouth. It will make it all the more sweet.

 

[Soliel]

This. I don't see how "dumb it down" is coming into play this week, when we were watching a pair of receivers who screwed up something that a bunch of weekend players can pick up after a 5 second discussion.

Exactly, this reminds me of Gilmore struggling with defense concepts. Except for one way, Gilmore eventually picked up and became what he is now. I’m not sure that’s the case with some of these receivers

 

[primetime]

As BGC said, the Patriots "system" is dependent on Brady. There's nothing particularly complicated about it, compared to other offenses. It's just much more reliant on knowing what's in Brady's head.

It's not physical deterioration - his arm looks like it has more pop than it did this time last year - but you wonder if Brady's becoming less patient and willing to work with new people to integrate them into the offense. The 2017-2019 teams relied on guys who had been around for a long time... Edelman, Gronk, White, Amendola (through 2018). Part of it is talent, but some of these guys should have the talent. I think that's something any worker can relate to as they get older, but it is potentially a big issue for a team like the Patriots where everything revolves around Brady for good reason. You can't 'dumb it down' from that because there isn't anywhere else to go.

 

[PatsBoy12]

he was money early in the season, ppl were saying he finally clicked with brady

Dorsett is better when there are better pieces around him and he's not a focal point. He's best at #3 or #4. That's it and it's time people see it and realize it.

 

[hellolin]

I said it in another thread.

If you dumb down the offense you will make Brady even less effective because you take away the tool from his kit that makes him stand out most relative to other QBs (i.e. recognizing what a defense is doing and having a counter ready). And no he is not perfect at that but better than any other QB.

In the long run you will make him even more frustrated that way because he will see something pre-snap but will have no means to react to it.

The solution is not to dumb down the offense but get a better grasp on what routes or concepts players can handle, start giving them opportunities there and then steadily add wood to the fire and increase their responsibilities.

Dismantling the most prolific offense of the last 20 years doesn't really make much sense to me as long as Brady is here. Once he has moved on there will be a pruning process anyway.

People do not understand what you stated above is exactly how Brady went from a physically under valued QB to the greatest of all time. Without those, he will look exactly like what his combine stat sheet and evaluation said about him and the GOAT would never happened. When you can not out physical the other team, you have to out smart and out work them, and that was exactly what made Brady the goat.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

This is why I often say that Brady is the system. Nobody else in history has ever run this offense, because it's unique to the QB (and his relative strengths and weaknesses), modified by the OCs and HC. And I think that's why BB seemed so intrigued by JAG, as he seemed to be able to process in a manner similar to Brady

Frankly i feel brady can play in any system if he has the weapons but that’s my opinion. The jury is still out on jimmy g. He doesn’t have brady’s intangibles yet maybe he might never have them.