Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Giants

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Anyway back to the postgame stuff: is Stephon Gilmore the best defensive player in the NFL? I’m trying to take off my homer glasses but have always felt a shutdown corner is a lot more valuable than an elite pass rusher. Gilmore’s skills are of compounding value and allow the entire defense to play more aggressive and also improve the success rate of other CBs (they get more safety help and typically don’t need to cover the #1 receiver.).

I felt Revis was hands-down the DPOY for two of his peak years. His presence on the Jets was more impactful than anyone else in the league for reasons similar to Gilmore. Charles Woodson is the only CB to win the award in the last 25 years. Unfortunately the best CBS aren’t thrown at much, so their unimpressive stats eliminate them to many sportswriters.

How many interceptions or deflections leading to interceptions is that for Gilmore now? 5? The guy is so good I’m running out of superlatives. I thought Revis was a once in a generation player, but I think Gilmore is very close.

EDIT/UPDATE:

 

[MainePatsFan26]

I’d like to see a video of Michel going through a subway turnstile

I’m curious if he can get past one or if they stop him

If by "they" you mean the eight large men clogging the turnstile, then no -- he probably won't make it through the turnstile.

 

[luuked]

So why do we have Younghoe? I’m not sure of the benefits of having a PS kicker.

They wanted someone like Nugent who is used to kicking in the elements and has a bit of experience as quick fix and then keep evaluating Koo in the mean time as a potential long term replacement.

On nights like yesterday the experience of kicking in strong winds and potential rain is huge.

We dont know if Ghost calls it a career maybe or if the team decides his contract is too rich after a severe injury.

Using a practice roster spot to keep evaluating your options seems like a good idea to me.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Anyway back to the postgame stuff: is Stephon Gilmore the best defensive player in the NFL? I’m trying to take off my homer glasses but have always felt a shutdown corner is a lot more valuable than an elite pass rusher. Gilmore’s skills are of compounding value and allow the entire defense to play more aggressive and also improve the success rate of other CBs (they get more safety help and typically don’t need to cover the #1 receiver.).

My take is that the most valuable position on defense depends on the overall strengths of that defense.

If you have a strong coverage unit from top to bottom, then a shutdown corner who takes away a man from the game means you have 5 other potential pass defenders to 4 eligible weapons if you rush five players. Basically, a shutdown corner in this scenario can open up one player to spy, blitz, etc. Having Gilmore and a talented group of corners/safeties has meant the Patriots can play with coverages more than prior years where we had shakier depth.

When you have an average to poor coverage unit, however, one shutdown corner achieves far less. If you don't have depth in the defensive backfield, you can't trust the rest of your corners and safeties to make plays even when they've got a slight advantage in numbers. In this scenario, the elite pass rusher makes more of an impact because he forces mistakes, thus helping to make up for a suspect pass coverage unit. This is observable with the Kansas City Chiefs who used great pass rushing in years past to help mitigate their awful secondary.

With the Patriots unit right now, I would agree that Gilmore is the league defensive MVP because he allows the defense to run so many looks.

 

[TommyD4207]

My take is that the most valuable position on defense depends on the overall strengths of that defense.

If you have a strong coverage unit from top to bottom, then a shutdown corner who takes away a man from the game means you have 5 other potential pass defenders to 4 eligible weapons if you rush five players. Basically, a shutdown corner in this scenario can open up one player to spy, blitz, etc. With the Patriots, having Gilmore and a talented group of corners/safeties has meant the Patriots can play with coverages more than prior years where we had shakier depth.

When you have an average to poor coverage unit, however, one shutdown corner achieves far less. When you don't have depth in the defensive backfield, you can't trust the rest of your corners and safeties to make plays even when they've got a slight advantage in numbers. In this scenario, the elite pass rusher makes more of an impact because he forces mistakes, thus helping to make up for a suspect pass coverage unit. This is observable with the Kansas City Chiefs who used great pass rushing in years past to help mitigate their awful secondary.

With the Patriots unit right now, I would agree that Gilmore is the league defensive MVP because he allows the defense to run so many looks.

This is a good point. Gilmore's the best CB in the league (although all I heard all week is that he suddenly sucks now), but the rest of the secondary has to be in the top 25 or 30 at worst. No one else has depth like that.

 

[luuked]

I know that it didn't matter in the scheme of things, but the league not over-turning the CLEAR DPI by Jones on Tate at the end of the game was bad. I mean, blind people saw that and knew it was DPI.

They are making a clear case that it is a tool for absolute "egregious" calls. I actually like that it has a ridiculously high line in terms of overturning. And for the most part they have been surprisingly consistent with it.

The game is biased enough towards offensive success anyway. They dont need yet another tool in their kit.

That being said I understand that some will be upset over visual evidence of holding not having any consequence.

But then again that is similar to a replay showing a not reviewable infraction and the refs not being able to do something about it which we have had for a long time now as well.

 

[luuked]

Laces out or not. You need to hit a 40 yarder.

You get a 80% kicker as an emergency this is what you will have to live with for the next few months.

 

[luuked]

The offense has until November to figure it out.

Postseason starts early this year it seems.

They have until whenever their first playoff game is in January to figure it out.

 

[luuked]

Izzo was up and down this game. He had some good blocks. He had some crappy blocks. I think the kid was exhausted after LaCosse went down AND Johnson went down..

Yeah for the final part of the game when Johnson also ended up on the sideline he gets a lot of credit to gut it out. But the majority if snaps before were just bad.

I get that he is thrown into way too many snaps, is inexperienced and is playing outside where his strengths are but what it comes down to is that he is the next man up and has to improve or be replaced by someone like Dwayne Allen (if he can get healthy) who has shown he can do those things.

Not saying it is fair but the times to grade him on a curve are over for now.

 

[Brewskies]

Nice finish. Terry Bradshaw spoke about the wind affecting Brady's passes at the half, the same wind didn't affect Brady's passes in the second half. What is that all about? Did it take a break and discussions to make adjustments? Brady speaks to Josh all throughout the game.

The defense was the savior again.

2nd half was the savior again.

The Pats played the Giants another garbage team in the 6-0 record. What happens when the big boys come to play, we have more injuries?

I am stating these positions thinking Pats in SB.

Go Pats

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[Soliel]

I don’t care about all the details. I won a thousand bucks on this game

 

[Soliel]

Anyway back to the postgame stuff: is Stephon Gilmore the best defensive player in the NFL? I’m trying to take off my homer glasses but have always felt a shutdown corner is a lot more valuable than an elite pass rusher. Gilmore’s skills are of compounding value and allow the entire defense to play more aggressive and also improve the success rate of other CBs (they get more safety help and typically don’t need to cover the #1 receiver.).

I felt Revis was hands-down the DPOY for two of his peak years. His presence on the Jets was more impactful than anyone else in the league for reasons similar to Gilmore. Charles Woodson is the only CB to win the award in the last 25 years. Unfortunately the best CBS aren’t thrown at much, so their unimpressive stats eliminate them to many sportswriters.

How many interceptions or deflections leading to interceptions is that for Gilmore now? 5? The guy is so good I’m running out of superlatives. I thought Revis was a once in a generation player, but I think Gilmore is very close.

EDIT/UPDATE:

Gilmore Island

 

[Keyser Söze]

Bennett seems like he’s about to be cut or traded.

 

[Tony2046]

What makes you think the Falcons are looking to trade Hooper? Hooper is their TOP TE. Trading him would leave them with 2. Stocker and Jaeden Grahem.

It doesn't matter who your a proponent of if it makes no sense for the other team to trade the player to begin with.

Heard on the radio that the Falcons are running into a cap problem. So that's the angle for Hooper.

 

[njpatsfan]

Laces should be facing the intended destination, I believe. For that missed kick the laces were pointing, largely, left. I assume left facing laces will pull the kick left (wind direction not withstanding). Nugent's kick hit the left upright.
IF all that is correct (I'm a switch and router guy-so obviously I'm an expert at FG kicking ), then if the laces were facing the intended destination, as they should have been, the FG would have been good.

The reason laces are ‘out’ has nothing to do with ballistics but simply the fact that the kick can be unstable if the foot comes in contact with the laces. Trying to place the laces on the other side of the football from where the foot will contact the ball is the best strategy to avoid this.

You can see from the slo-mo replay that the laces were far enough left that there was no way Nugents foot contacted them. So this is simply a missed kick on Nugent.

 

[JayNM]

First time in years that I fall asleep during a Pats game... cant even blame the game, cause the onlu play i Remember was literally the kickoff

 

[njpatsfan]

I see our resident 'GDT' crybabies have made themselves at home in the past game thread, too!

....

Get some god damn perspective - this whole forum is a toxic mess suffering from extreme myopia.

Take it from someone that has been on this board from its inception (and not the new instance that started in 2004).

If you understand that for most of these people with five digit post counts that it is all about *them* and not the team, all this pathetic behavior makes sense.

I agree that this nonsense makes the board unreadable, which is why the best football talk - about the Pats or not - is not found here anymore.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

You get a 80% kicker as an emergency this is what you will have to live with for the next few months.

In his first game as a Patriot in Foxboro, Nugent made all the extra points and missed a kick in swirling wind. It wasn't a performance for the ages, but it was decent enough to keep his job for a week or two. If he strings together a few more solid games, I hope they keep him for the rest of the season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Take it from someone that has been on this board from its inception (and not the new instance that started in 2004).

If you understand that for most of these people with five digit post counts that it is all about *them* and not the team, all this pathetic behavior makes sense.

I agree that this nonsense makes the board unreadable, which is why the best football talk - about the Pats or not - is not found here anymore.

Post count and lack of post quality have no correlation.