The Offensive Line

[WHPats]

Hey guys

I searched for an all-encompassing offensive line thread but couldn't find one. So the Patriots look outstanding in almost every aspect through the first two weeks of the season. The only thing people coming back to when they say "yeah, but..." is the offensive line and the injuries that have been sustained on it.

Realistically, how much of a concern is this? I know the O-line is very important, but if injuries continue to mount isn't it likely the Patriots start running the ball more to keep a defense off-balance? Once we play a playoff caliber defense of course. Is there a chance the Pats trade a prominent player or high draft choice for a player like Trent Williams? How much does the Patriots talented defense offset any o-line problems?

I've heard various opinions on this from the media, but I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts on some of these questions. Thanks!

 

[oldrover]

In Scar, they trust. In Scar, we trust.

 

[BlueThunder]

At least Pats are in the easiest part of their schedule. Altho the Bills may pose some problems, it's not until Ravens in November that their schedule gets tougher.....Hopefully by then their OLmen that are currently out are back and healthy......Wynn to IR and earliest he could return would be against Eagles after the November 10th Bye week. Dante has some time to work his magic with the newcomers.

 

[maust]

 

[PatsFan2]

At least Pats are in the easiest part of their schedule. Altho the Bills may pose some problems, it's not until Ravens in November that their schedule gets tougher.....Hopefully by then their OLmen that are currently out are back and healthy......Wynn to IR and earliest he could return would be against Eagles after the November 10th Bye week. Dante has some time to work his magic with the newcomers.

Or we can Trade for a decent Offensive Tackle from a tanking Team. The Tanking picture will become a lot clearer in three weeks for those Teams playing for the upcoming Draft. With how our Tackles are on the fragile side you have to think BB will be a player in a possible Trade.

 

[long distance]

Here is Reiss take that can serve as intro:
LT Wynn placed on IR in another blow to Pats' OL


The main immediate Q going forward is how to make best way of Thuney's versatility..

1. If they leave him at LG one or both tackle positions (depending on Cannon recovery) get exposed and they have to scheme around it bc i dont see a competent T on the team outside of Thuney and Cannon or a competent in-line TE outside Izzo. But leaving him in the middle of OL makes him more productive since he can help both C and LT positions as he has done @ MIA.

2. If they move him to LT they solidify one crucial position but open a dangerous weakness at IOL where Tom and Pats O are most vulnerable to pressure. Also Thuney can't offer much help to other positions from the outside.

3. It is possible that Dante makes a serviceable starter from at least one of the newcomers but that will take time. Elu looked very bad at G against strong PIT DL and both new tackles looked iffy against one of the weakest D-lines in the league. The newest addition is named tackle but he actually played RG last season. So it is hard to know which position Dante is able to solidify better/first - and that will likely decide Thuney usage that might even be different over the next weeks.

4. TRADE: If they are looking to find a more serious upgrade to the OL - competent IOL trade is probably more realistic from availability and economic reason. This can be center or guard since Karras is better at guard than center actually.

5. Thuney will be more than happy with move to LT in his contract year . on the other hand it will make him harder to re-sign even for top G money..

Lots of things in play and it will be interesting how Bill and Scar navigate this one esp. with such poor depth and its only week 2..

 

[BobDigital]

Good idea for a thread. Here are my current thoughts.

OT - Honestly it wasn't so bad last game. Newhouse was serviceable in his first start here after only being with the team for a few days. It wasn't a good DL but his play wasn't terrible. If we project him to improve over the coming weeks, which he should, he can hopefully hold this spot down until Wynn returns. I get the feeling Cannon will be back this week, and if so he will improve the unit dramatically. I do wonder who will take over the LT duties with Cannon back. Newhouse showed good versatility moving from RT to LT when Wynn went down. IDK if that was an immediate change or something they went to after trying some stuff out. In any case for a temporary LT they could do worse. Cunningham at RT was okay too and showed some good potentially as a backup. I have no idea what to think about Benenoch until i see him play.

G - Thuney has been really good. I hope they extend him. Nothing but solid play. Mason is off to one of the worst starts he has ever had here. I hope it isn't injury related. If not I believe him and Scar will right the hip. IDK about the depth here still. I'm sure they will keep looking.

C - Besides the snaps which showed a marked improvement last game Karras has been solid at center. I was always high on him as a backup and now it's showing. Not a big drop off from Andrew overall. No depth behind him though.

 

[willard]

What long distance posted up of Mike Reiss's thinking pretty much goes along with mine.

Karras has been with the team a long time. Not too concerned about his play.

Cannon is a large man who has played the game a while and prone to injuries. Just my hunch, but think he is a ways away. Think he will be listed as limited and then ruled out as a decoy for a while. Only a few know for sure.

Very likely we see two new starters at offensive line this week and for the near future.

We can not get Ben Watson back soon enough.

We do have 4 OL on IR. Wynn would obviously be the best to come back. Andrews I see no chance of. Froholdt or Cajus if they are able would at least like to see them practicing with the team. So some hope with Wynn and little with the other two as midseason returns. Again only a few have a real good idea of the recovery timelines.

The opportunity is there for Newhouse and Cunningham and I hope they seize it.

Not a week to bet on the Pats spread

 

[patriot1136]

This is going to be an area in flux and we will just have to take it week to week, or "one game at a time". Fortunately, Benenoch, Cunningham, and Eluemunor are young guys and I would think with the right coaching they can improve. I know they may not be all-pros but I also don't think they've hit their ceiling yet. Newhouse seems like a decent veteran pickup and maybe with a little more time in the system he will improve a bit too. As someone previously mentioned, we will see what the trade market looks like in a couple weeks. I just don't know how limited we will be due to cap space and such.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Has there been a Yodny Cajuste siting at all among the media members? If he miraculously started practicing, he could come back in week 6 (I think)

 

[PatsFan2]

Has there been a Yodny Cajuste siting at all among the media members? If he miraculously started practicing, he could come back in week 6 (I think)

He's on the NFI list probably won't get a peep out of BB about that.

 

[Sciz]

Has there been a Yodny Cajuste siting at all among the media members? If he miraculously started practicing, he could come back in week 6 (I think)

He was in the locker room on September 1, which I believe is the only time the media has seen him.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

He was in the locker room on September 1, which I believe is the only time the media has seen him.

Thanks for the update. IIRC he was a 3rd round pick who would have gone higher if he was healthy. Somewhere down the line he could really contribute. It would be nice - though unexpected - if it was this year.

 

[patfanken]

Here's my take

1. C - Karras is fine in general. After 2 games I see him being a slight upgrade to Andrews when he's playing against a NT. He is simply bigger and stronger. However when facing a 4-3 his less nimble and it shows in the run game getting to the 2nd level. I wouldn't move Karras in order to pick up ANOTHER C.

The problem at the position is the back up, and the way our OL is going you can't assume Karras is never going to get hurt. Ferentz had an awful TC, but he's what we have and its unlikely that anyone on the roster will replace him.

However there is the thought that you might move Thuney to C where he would excel and knows all the calls and Karras to LG where Reiss feels he's better suited. Just a thought.

2. OG - quite frankly I'd keep Thuney in the interior. The greatest threat to Brady is immediate pressure up the middle. It is a LOT easier to help an OT with TE and RB help than it is to shut down inside pressure. As it is Mason is off to a bad start, I wouldn't want any other disruptions to the interior OL. Mason, Karras and Thuney in any configuration is the best the Pats have. Let that be left alone.

3. OT - Oy. The fact that Cannon will at least be back for Buffalo is a comfort. Having him back for the Jets would be ideal, but I wouldn't rush it. The Jets have great DT's but nothing really scary from the outside. The Jets have a tough defense and given the OL I'd be surprise to see them score 30 points. HOWEVER it isn't going to take 30 points to win - 20 would be fine. So I wouldn't necessarily rush Cannon back. This is another reason NOT to move Thuney to T. The danger of the Jets defense are their DT's and inside blitzes.

Who wins the job at OT will likely be the guy who graded out best between Newhouse and Cunningham. If Cannon is out again, then it will be both Its too early to trust Caleb with the job.

4. TE- Izzo seems to be doing the job as a blocker, Lacosse had 2 nice catches in the seam and across the middle. clearly a work in progress for at least the next 2 weeks.

 

[luuked]

4. TE- Izzo seems to be doing the job as a blocker, Lacosse had 2 nice catches in the seam and across the middle. clearly a work in progress for at least the next 2 weeks.

Pretty far out there speculation but I can see our TE situation totally reworked in a few weeks with Watson being the more move TE and Dwayne Allen (if he were to get healthy from his knee issues) as the blocking option.

Allen was a top blocking TE in the past years and might be available for cheap after being released by Miami. The only reason this seems a bit intriguing to me is the status of the OL. Allen would add some stability and consistency.

Izzo can go back to the PS and have another year to work on fundamentals and LaCosse would be a victim of the numbers game.

I would have preferred a healthy OL and going Watson, LaCosse and Izzo but the solid WR depth and the line issues make me hesitant about that.

 

[Redman443]

hopefully we can go with Benonetch, Thuney, Karras. Cannon and Mason

 

[PatsBoy12]

Cannon returned to practice apparently. Good news!

 

[SBLIII]

Scar is a great OL coach but he can't make **** into gold. Our current OL is a major concern.

 

[SBLIII]

Cannon returned to practice apparently. Good news!

He already practiced last week.

 

[mgteich]

OG/C
I like the idea of Thuney staying at LG so that he can help both the LT and the C. I do think that we need a veteran backup swing interior lineman to replace Ferentz. One of the newbies might also be a backup at OG.

TE
I think that we'll be fine withe whoever BB decides to keep when Watson is activated. And yes, Allen could be signed as an upgrade to Izzo.

OT
oy indeed!

Dante will continue to assess, play the best he has, and report back. The focus on the new guys should be all about their ability at LT. If these four aren't meeting the need, BB may need to trade for someone.

In any case, we certainly hope that Cannon is back soon, greatly reducing the need. Unfortunately, RT is not the worst need since Benenoch can probably play there if needed, perhaps after a couple of weeks. Benenoch looks to be a good backup for the right side at RG and RT.

Here's my take

1. C - Karras is fine in general. After 2 games I see him being a slight upgrade to Andrews when he's playing against a NT. He is simply bigger and stronger. However when facing a 4-3 his less nimble and it shows in the run game getting to the 2nd level. I wouldn't move Karras in order to pick up ANOTHER C.

The problem at the position is the back up, and the way our OL is going you can't assume Karras is never going to get hurt. Ferentz had an awful TC, but he's what we have and its unlikely that anyone on the roster will replace him.

However there is the thought that you might move Thuney to C where he would excel and knows all the calls and Karras to LG where Reiss feels he's better suited. Just a thought.

2. OG - quite frankly I'd keep Thuney in the interior. The greatest threat to Brady is immediate pressure up the middle. It is a LOT easier to help an OT with TE and RB help than it is to shut down inside pressure. As it is Mason is off to a bad start, I wouldn't want any other disruptions to the interior OL. Mason, Karras and Thuney in any configuration is the best the Pats have. Let that be left alone.

3. OT - Oy. The fact that Cannon will at least be back for Buffalo is a comfort. Having him back for the Jets would be ideal, but I wouldn't rush it. The Jets have great DT's but nothing really scary from the outside. The Jets have a tough defense and given the OL I'd be surprise to see them score 30 points. HOWEVER it isn't going to take 30 points to win - 20 would be fine. So I wouldn't necessarily rush Cannon back. This is another reason NOT to move Thuney to T. The danger of the Jets defense are their DT's and inside blitzes.

Who wins the job at OT will likely be the guy who graded out best between Newhouse and Cunningham. If Cannon is out again, then it will be both Its too early to trust Caleb with the job.

4. TE- Izzo seems to be doing the job as a blocker, Lacosse had 2 nice catches in the seam and across the middle. clearly a work in progress for at least the next 2 weeks.