Patriots QB Conundrum - How Many, And Who?

[mgteich]

So, you saying that a 2-3 or a 1-4 stretch would make the season impossible? In what way?
Would we then not have a chance at the PLAYOFFS? If Brady is back, this team has to be considered a strong threat for the SB, no matter what their playoff seeding.

If Brady misses 5 weeks, neither Stidham or Hoyer is going to save the season. And youre figuring without Stidham possibly improving as he learns on the job.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know you were responding to a specific post but "dramatic" is the perfect word to describe this board & Hoyer atm.

Everyone understands his value & what he brings but those that think he can lead us to a winning record/playoffs/some posters actually brought up SB is insane.
Very short sighted as well. Look at the progress hes made in this small time. What would he look like at the end of Oct/Nov.

Like you mentioned the fact that Stidham played almost the entire 3rd p/s game tells you all you need to know abt what this team thinks abt the QB situation rn.

Still have yet to hear 1 poster articulate how Hoyer has been better than Stidham so far as well?

Hoyer has:

Looked better
Better numbers


It's not really that difficult, except to those who have a hard on over Stidham.

 

[Jackson 2]

Crystal ball - road map to glory.

Brady starts this year. His final year with the team. Brady plays all 19 games and leads us to a Super Bowl 54 win. The only franchise with 7 Super Bowls!

Hoyer is cut on August 30, is not claimed by any other team, but is retained as assistant qb coach to lead the scout team in practice.

Stidham is the backup qb and takes 5 percent of the reps in practice.

Etling is resigned to the practice squad after Atlanta cuts him.

2020, Brady is off to qb San Francisco (with garrapolo as his his backup). San Francisco wins the Super Bowl. We go a horrible 0 and 16 with Stidham at QB. Prior to the 2020 season, we put almost all of our starters and young backups on ir with the Foxboro flu. We leave Stidham (and etling as the backup) out there with a bunch of journey men and set a record for futility that makes detriot’s winless season look great in comparison.

In April 2021, we draft qb Lawrence of Clemson number 1 overall. For the 2021 season, we return all our now rested and healthy players, who sat out the previous year with the foxboro flu, and win another 7 lombardi’s over the next 10 seasons.

Bb retires near age 80 with 16 rings and laments that he should have had more!!!!

Kraft turns the reins of the team over to his son in 2020 and spends the rest of his days receiving happy endings at the golden dragon day spa and massage emporium in beautiful downtown Miami!

I'm jealous. You must have LOADS of time on your hands to have 1) thought that nonsense up, and 2) taken the time to write it. God bless you...

 

[Uptown]

 

[Zuma]

Hoyer has:

Looked better
Better numbers


It's not really that difficult, except to those who have a hard on over Stidham.

That Tom guy has historically not been stellar in pre season. I don't see it as an issue of Stidham vs Hoyer but more how much talent does Stidham have and how much has he grown since joining the team. For me...it's not that difficult to see how much he has learned and grown since joining the team....regardless of what Hoyer does. But for those who have a Hoyer hard on...

 

[Deus Irae]

That Tom guy has historically not been stellar in pre season. I don't see it an issue of Stidham vs Hoyer but more how much talent does Stidham have and how much has he grown since joining the team. For me...it's not that difficult to see how much he has learned and grown since joining the team....regardless of what Hoyer does. But for those who have a Hoyer hard on...

You're welcome to your take. My response was specific to a poster who's been blowing smoke out of his ass about this topic for some time. He's been belittling Hoyer, which is fine as an opinion, but he's been doing it relative to Stidham, which is asinine.

 

[luuked]

The fact that they played Stidham almost all of the most important preseason game and gave him a starting offense for considerable period of time (risking further injuries to some depleted groups) suggested to me that the option of potentially going with only Stidham is on the table.

I see it differently. I think the team wanted to see how he looks when he doesn't play against mostly 3s and some 2s. And to me his performance really reinforced that he is not ready to play a real NFL game without being baited into bad decisions.

How fast can you get his ball security issues out of him ?

Nobody is disputing that they might have something in Stidham if he develops. He certainly seems to have a higher upside than Hoyer. But that is not the point.

Ultimately none of this is about Hoyer vs. Stidham at all. This is about Hoyer vs. #53 on the roster and the risk/reward involved in this decision to roll with someone who at this point would be more of a detriment that you'd have to coach around.

The fact that Hoyer is on cheap deal tells you what the rest of the NFL thinks about him. Remember he was not part of the JG trade; BB had no problem “risking“ him being released by SF and hitting the market in order to sign him on NE terms . and that's despite Pats having only old Brady on the roster at the time..

Again we have absolutely different reads on this. Hoyer was not cheap but SF was footing the bill as an exchange for getting JG. Him getting cut, SF paying him all his guaranteed money and him signing with us for a minimum was all part of the deal and pre-arranged with Hoyer. If you disagree with that and think it all was just coincidence then I think that is very naive. It is literally the main reason that BB called the 49ers as everything lined up from compensation to cheap and known backup.

EDIT: it was probably discussed already but this move would hardly qualify as “one of the most shocking BB moves ever“.

And for a third time we disagree. To me it would be absolutely one of the most shocking decisions of BBs tenure, mostly because of the cost benefit involved. Unless someone offers a reasonable pick for him you will gain nothing out of it except one roster spot for another bubble player while hoping that Brady doesn't miss any time.

Hoyer is to Mallet what Brady is to Hoyer. I don't think those two should even be mentioned in the same sentence. Mallet couldn't even hang on to a backup job in any of his stations whereas Hoyer had an overall successful career if you compare it to most average QB careers.

I am not saying it won't happen but to me it feels like too much of a dice roll given what we have seen so far.

 

[moosekill]

I see it differently. I think the team wanted to see how he looks when he doesn't play against mostly 3s and some 2s. And to me his performance really reinforced that he is not ready to play a real NFL game without being baited into bad decisions.

How fast can you get his ball security issues out of him ?

Nobody is disputing that they might have something in Stidham if he develops. He certainly seems to have a higher upside than Hoyer. But that is not the point.

Ultimately none of this is about Hoyer vs. Stidham at all. This is about Hoyer vs. #53 on the roster and the risk/reward involved in this decision to roll with someone who at this point would be more of a detriment that you'd have to coach around.



Again we have absolutely different reads on this. Hoyer was not cheap but SF was footing the bill as an exchange for getting JG. Him getting cut, SF paying him all his guaranteed money and him signing with us for a minimum was all part of the deal and pre-arranged with Hoyer. If you disagree with that and think it all was just coincidence then I think that is very naive. It is literally the main reason that BB called the 49ers as everything lined up from compensation to cheap and known backup.



And for a third time we disagree. To me it would be absolutely one of the most shocking decisions of BBs tenure, mostly because of the cost benefit involved. Unless someone offers a reasonable pick for him you will gain nothing out of it except one roster spot for another bubble player while hoping that Brady doesn't miss any time.

Hoyer is to Mallet what Brady is to Hoyer. I don't think those two should even be mentioned in the same sentence. Mallet couldn't even hang on to a backup job in any of his stations whereas Hoyer had an overall successful career if you compare it to most average QB careers.

I am not saying it won't happen but to me it feels like too much of a dice roll given what we have seen so far.

Good God man. Cutting Hoyer would be one of the most shocking decisions of the BB era?????? I would not be surprised either way. He is a middling qb who can back up Brady if need be. The hope is always that he will never get to play a down, but you need a back up. From what I saw, he might be a little better then Stidham, but not very much better, with no upside. They aren't going to cut Stidham, who has played very well this preseason, while Hoyer looked good the first game, ok the second game and didn't play the third game. Are you like his cousin or something? I thought it was foolish when people disregarded his addition with the Jimmy G trade, because, you need a back up and he is a capable back up. But OMG he isn't that good.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Hoyer has:

Looked better
Better numbers


It's not really that difficult, except to those who have a hard on over Stidham.

Hoyer has completed exactly 1 pass 10+ yards through the air. Thats not winning games. Esp in Jan/Feb

Saying he has better numbers is like saying he's more accurate than Brady bc of his cmp%.

I've been one of Stidhams biggest critics when deserved considering I've been watching him for years. I'm not saying he can start anytime soon but pointing out the fact that hes made decent strides in the short time here. Its not far fetched to think he'll be that much better at the end of Oct/Nov.

 

[long distance]

Again we have absolutely different reads on this. Hoyer was not cheap but SF was footing the bill as an exchange for getting JG. Him getting cut, SF paying him all his guaranteed money and him signing with us for a minimum was all part of the deal and pre-arranged with Hoyer. If you disagree with that and think it all was just coincidence then I think that is very naive. It is literally the main reason that BB called the 49ers as everything lined up from compensation to cheap and known backup.

What would be naive here is thinking he would shy away from significant better offers..
Of course it was pre-arranged with Hoyer. But the fact it could be pre-arranged this way tells you about Hoyer's market value, how the league sees him (one reason why i was talking about the initial 53 decision) and moreover - how he sees himself . He seems more of a QB assistant then QB backup at this point.

We'll see how it plays out soon enough but after 20 yrs of BB one would think roster decisions like this would hardly be shocking to those who follow..

 

[Ivan]

Brady & Stidham

They aren’t going to win it all without Brady, and the value of that roster spot is too good to waste it. In addition adding Gordon means carrying an extra WR all season.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Just go ahead and get rid of Hoyer, if Brady goes down i'd rather start Stidham anyway so it's Brady/Stidham for me.

I don't see the need to waste a roster spot on a guy with declining skills who was never good to begin with.

 

[luuked]

Good God man. Cutting Hoyer would be one of the most shocking decisions of the BB era?????? I would not be surprised either way. He is a middling qb who can back up Brady if need be. The hope is always that he will never get to play a down, but you need a back up. From what I saw, he might be a little better then Stidham, but not very much better, with no upside. They aren't going to cut Stidham, who has played very well this preseason, while Hoyer looked good the first game, ok the second game and didn't play the third game. Are you like his cousin or something? I thought it was foolish when people disregarded his addition with the Jimmy G trade, because, you need a back up and he is a capable back up. But OMG he isn't that good.

Again this is not about Hoyer and Stidham but about having a capable backup QB which the latter is not yet.

You keep and others keep talking as if I am somehow a Hoyer fan but you miss the main point which is that despite all his limitations at this point he is a better backup for Brady than Stidham.

Nobody is saying Stidham will be released or should be. He will replace Hoyer rather sooner than later.

The question is whats more valuable: a competent QB that can run your full offense or whatever bubble player else that would be number 53 + taking on the risk that the season might go down the drain if Brady misses 4-5 games.

You keep reading "without Brady the season is over anyway" but those people keep missing the obvious fact that not every injury is a season ender.

 

[luuked]

What would be naive here is thinking he would shy away from significant better offers..
Of course it was pre-arranged with Hoyer. But the fact it could be pre-arranged this way tells you about Hoyer's market value, how the league sees him (one reason why i was talking about the initial 53 decision) and moreover - how he sees himself . He seems more of a QB assistant then QB backup at this point.

We'll see how it plays out soon enough but after 20 yrs of BB one would think roster decisions like this would hardly be shocking to those who follow..

I don't think you understand what would be shocking to me. It is not the player Hoyer being released, but taking on the risk of releasing your backup QB when the other guy is not there yet.

Again that is a lot of risk to take on because QB is the one position they can't scheme around an injury too much whereas when eg. Hightower or Gronk were unavailable their diverse roster allowed them to account for that with multiple bodies taking over the role.

People get too hung up on Hoyer but don't get that the shocking part to me would be an even bigger single point of failure in the design of a 180m team.

 

[moosekill]

I don't think you understand what would be shocking to me. It is not the player Hoyer being released, but taking on the risk of releasing your backup QB when the other guy is not there yet.

Again that is a lot of risk to take on because QB is the one position they can't scheme around an injury too much whereas when eg. Hightower or Gronk were unavailable their diverse roster allowed them to account for that with multiple bodies taking over the role.

People get too hung up on Hoyer but don't get that the shocking part to me would be an even bigger single point of failure in the design of a 180m team.

They have done it before and will do it again. The same things were said when the traded Jimmy G and when they kept just Mallett. We will find out soon, I trust BB on this one.

 

[Zuma]

Michael Bennett, in 11th season, experiences new formation

6. Stidham's development shows value of preseason: The drumbeat is growing louder to eliminate/reduce preseason games, and while the product is admittedly not enthralling, count me in what seems like the minority for keeping four games. Rookie quarterback Jarrett Stidham is a prime example as to why: He has played 153 snaps to this point, which is incredibly valuable to Belichick and his staff as they evaluate whether Stidham -- who has been mostly impressive -- could elevate to the No. 2 spot over veteran Brian Hoyer. I don't see how that would even be a consideration without actual preseason games.

 

[TomPatriot]

I don't think you understand what would be shocking to me. It is not the player Hoyer being released, but taking on the risk of releasing your backup QB when the other guy is not there yet.

Again that is a lot of risk to take on because QB is the one position they can't scheme around an injury too much whereas when eg. Hightower or Gronk were unavailable their diverse roster allowed them to account for that with multiple bodies taking over the role.

People get too hung up on Hoyer but don't get that the shocking part to me would be an even bigger single point of failure in the design of a 180m team.

Belichick’s comments a few days ago about Stidham’s progress would seem to support your point. I think they keep Hoyer unless there’s an overriding reason to keep another player. Yet he went with only JG, a rookie former FCS QB, as the sole backup in 2015 and I’m not convinced JG was better then than Stidham is now.

Didn’t the Pats scheme around Brady when he took over for Bledsoe in 2001? They also seem to be scheming around Brady a little now by running the football a lot more.

 

[luuked]

They have done it before and will do it again. The same things were said when the traded Jimmy G and when they kept just Mallett. We will find out soon, I trust BB on this one.

Of course I trust BB. If he thinks Stidham is ready then all the better as it saves money and makes other roster decisions a bit easier.

Just from what I have seen in the first three games I don't think he is there yet and taking the risk that Brady doesn't get injured and you are completely screwed is not something BB has any history doing. He has made shocking moves to the outside but most if not all of them were calculated with players ready to step in for whoever got moved. There is no such thing for a QB. You can't just scheme around it forever.

Personally I think your comparison with Mallet is not valid here. Hoyer is to Mallet what Brady is to Hoyer. The gap between Mallet and JG was considerably smaller (in fact JG looked overall better) than it has been between Hoyer and Stidham so far.

 

[moosekill]

Of course I trust BB. If he thinks Stidham is ready then all the better as it saves money and makes other roster decisions a bit easier.

Just from what I have seen in the first three games I don't think he is there yet and taking the risk that Brady doesn't get injured and you are completely screwed is not something BB has any history doing. He has made shocking moves to the outside but most if not all of them were calculated with players ready to step in for whoever got moved. There is no such thing for a QB. You can't just scheme around it forever.

Personally I think your comparison with Mallet is not valid here. Hoyer is to Mallet what Brady is to Hoyer. The gap between Mallet and JG was considerably smaller (in fact JG looked overall better) than it has been between Hoyer and Stidham so far.

I gave you an example, that from the outside, us not being able to see all the practices etc, which is exactly the same as this case. Where BB went with two qb's, one a young untested qb and one an older Brady, and got rid of the more experienced QB. You are right, if Stidham sucks BB probably won't do it. However, I don't think he has sucked so far. You seem to be arguing that he has sucked and there is no way he could lead the Pats to a win. From what I have seen he hasn't sucked and really has looked better than JG did in his preseason games. A view backed up by their actual numbers from the preseason games. Truthfully, I think he didn't look much different in the third game than Hoyer did in the second game. So, you are wrong.

 

[luuked]

Yet he went with only JG, a rookie former FCS QB, as the sole backup in 2015 and I’m not convinced JG was better then than Stidham is now.

I think the gap between Hoyer/Stidham and Mallet/JG is the difference here. With the latter it was more or less non-existent whereas Hoyer is actually able to run the full offense at least on a competent level. Obviously not as efficient as Brady but he can get you through a couple games if Tom misses a handful.

With Stidham it all depends how long of a time you need to bridge. Would they be able to get through 1.5 games ? Given the coaching staff most probably. 4-5 ? I doubt that.

Didn’t the Pats scheme around Brady when he took over for Bledsoe in 2001? They also seem to be scheming around Brady a little now by running the football a lot more.

I honestly think that one year Brady had time to absorb everything while working on his own mechanics without the pressure of being game ready each week made a huge difference. Similar to Brady it is not unlikely that Stidham ends this season as the backup QB surpassing Hoyer.

But we still need to account for the first 2-3 months. In the end it all comes down to what risk the team is willing to take and how quickly they project Stidham to develop. Which is why it made a lot of sense why he played the entire remaining game against the Panthers.

I would love to only carry 2 QBs to save a roster spot. What I would hate is to screw another potential postseason run because someone stepped on Bradys foot and he missed 4 weeks while the team went 0-4 just to save a fringe roster spot.