Edelman & D. Thomas back at practice; Gordon in warmups

[Schmo]

I'm not sold on Berrios as a receiver, but if he doesn't make the 53, are we going with Edelman/Chung at PR?

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not sold on Berrios as a receiver, but if he doesn't make the 53, are we going with Edelman/Chung at PR?

There has never been a season in Edelman's career where he did not return punts.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes because the rules never get broken...

The thing about IR is you actually have to have a "major" injury.

Injured Reserve (IR) List, Injured Reserve with Return Designation
If the team decides to place a player on injured reserve, it must be a major injury. The NFL defines major injury as an injury that renders the player unable to practice or play football for at least six weeks — or 42 calendar days — from the date of injury.

The NFL and the NFL Players Association agreed to a short-term IR rule change which took effect in 2012. The change allowed one player (per team) to be activated from the IR list, and has since been changed so each team can return up to two players during the season. Additionally, teams originally had to declare a player as return eligible when placed on IR. They no longer have to declare a person eligible to return when they first go on IR. Before the enactment of this rule, any player that was placed on the IR list was not eligible to play again for the same team in that season (regular season and postseason).

This team does not break rules. Haven’t you realized that yet?

 

[203Pat]

I think that you're remembering a lot of injuries as more mysterious than they really were at the time. E.g. Sam and Berrios were both injured for most of TC last year, to the point where the team couldn't make any kind of reasonable evaluation of them. Keionta Davis was an injury signing to begin with -- he went undrafted due to a back injury and needed a season to get healthy. That's not "stashing," it's just the way IR works for every single team in the league.

EDIT: I should mention the reason why the phrase "Foxboro Flu" bothers me so much. It's because it suggests that the Patriots--unlike other teams--routinely flout the IR rules. It's yet another false "Patriots are cheaters!!" narrative, only this one perpetuated by Patriots fans.

So if they know it's an injury that will require IR why wait till cut down day? Because they are still healthy enough to evaluate. All I am saying is if some starters had the same exact injuries at the same exact time they would not end up on IR. No one with a brain can tell me that if Gronk sprained his ankle the same day that Izzo did he would have been on IR. In theory for all you virtuous posters out there every thing should be the same across the board as far as IR otherwise the team would be in violation of the rule.

 

[Brick27]

Not sold on Berrios making the 53 man. I think he'd need to borrow whatever farm animal photos of Bill that Jake Bequette had to keep making the cut.

Yikes.. And here I thought the association between the words Belichick and Goat merely stemmed from his position in the all-time coaching ranks..

 

[203Pat]

This team does not break rules. Haven’t you realized that yet?

 

[mgteich]

1) Berrios wouldn't be active, so he is sort of irrelevant.

2) Edelman is our punt returner (he returned 20 of the 26 last year)

3) I don't know who will replace Cyrus Jones as the #2 (5 returns last year). McCarran also "returned" one for zero yards. I would think that Harry and one of the corners would be candidates.
======
What I do know is that it's unreasonable to have a player use up an active roster spot so that he can return 6 punts a year. The roster spot is worth more the 45 yards that we got out of the backup returners last year [someone could simply fair catch a few if necessary].

I'm not sold on Berrios as a receiver, but if he doesn't make the 53, are we going with Edelman/Chung at PR?

 

[203Pat]

There has never been a season in Edelman's career where he did not return punts.

2017

 

[Ring 6]

Clearly you don’t pay attention.
The patriots go out of their way to follow every rule to the letter.
What examples do you have of them failing to follow rules? And you can leave out camera placement gate because it is exactly and example of them taking a rule literally and adhering to it .

 

[Ring 6]

1) Berrios wouldn't be active, so he is sort of irrelevant.

2) Edelman is our punt returner (he returned 20 of the 26 last year)

3) I don't know who will replace Cyrus Jones as the #2 (5 returns last year). McCarran also "returned" one for zero yards. I would think that Harry and one of the corners would be candidates.
======
What I do know is that it's unreasonable to have a player use up an active roster spot so that he can return 6 punts a year. The roster spot is worth more the 45 yards that we got out of the backup returners last year [someone could simply fair catch a few if necessary].

There is this myth out there that Edelman should play all the offensive plays and not return any punts because there is a high chance of injury returning punts. It’s not true, but many bit into it.

 

[Sicilian]

There is this myth out there that Edelman should play all the offensive plays and not return any punts because there is a high chance of injury returning punts. It’s not true, but many bit into it.

It's all part of the mentality that special teams are a side thought and don't matter. It's the same thing that makes people leave all of the ST only players off of their predicted rosters, and get mad when Gronk injures himself in a fluke injury on an extra point (but then get angry because we lose a game due to a missed XP, as though any player could do it just as well as any other). There's just no value placed on ST by some posters, and so if an injury DOES happen on one, they consider it frivolous.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

DT was signed by the Pats even though they knew he would take several months to recover from the injury.

He is now cleared to play.

I think that they expect him to contribute to this offense right away. He is an experienced veteran and a wide bodied, talented receiver. Defenses will have to account for him as he can be a tough matchup one on one.

He's definitely on my 53 !

 

[Jackson 2]

While they may not be able to practice they are able to learn the playbook and spend time around the team.



So they would turn down a full year at a few hundred thousand dollars to hopefully catch on with another team that in all likelihood they will end up on the practice squad making a few thousand a week and can be cut at any time?


I am not saying that only the Patriots do this and I know Patriots fans have this persecution complex but the league isn't always out to get us. They look into IR violations for us they have to do it with every team in the league. They have to spend time and resources into something that happens all the time. We saw Antonio Brown end up on the injury report in week 17 last year when we now know he wasn't injured.

Take a look at this article about Berrios and how last year on IR was tough but he felt it had some benefits.

"I’ve never had to watch football for the most part. It was obviously tough in that aspect. I reached out and figured out the healthy ways to deal with it and the ways to be productive with it so that when I could come back on the field I was a better football player even though I hadn’t touched the field yet," Berrios said.

"It was really all the intangible things that you have to go through a full year to understand. The head spins a lot slower now that I’ve been around it for a year. That was a huge part of that year. Now that I get this opportunity again, it wasn’t like I was on day one."

Berrios looks to catch on in year two

The only significant issue I have with your post is your claim that Patriot fans have a persecution complex. By definition, a persecution complex is a delusional, irrational belief. There's nothing delusional or irrational about the f###ing this franchise has suffered at the hands of Goodell, in particular, and NFL, in general. To quote a great song, it's been as real as real can get.

 

[supafly]

The people NOT surprised had looked to his past history and his contract, and judged that Thomas was very likely to make the 53.

I think we’ve covered the contract. What do you see in a contract with a 150k dead cap hit and some basic incentives at the 800 yd—1000 yd marks that are suggestive that he was going to make the team?

Also, I don’t know how looking at a player’s previous injury from 8 years ago can offer anyone a glimpse into their future in terms of how they’d heal now, either, especially since he’s currently 31.

Neither of these situations offered any type of predictor. It was either he healed in time or he didn’t heal in time. Simple as that.

 

[supafly]

You are implying that the team did not sign the contract in good faith. If the team was PLANNING to put Thomas on PUP, the contract is a truly awful contract for Thomas.

No one said they were “planning” to do anything. I said that judging by the official predictor threads, very few here had Thomas on their 53. Most expected a start on PUP, or even an outright cut in the vein of many other washed up vets. That’s a fact if you simply look through the threads.

I also said that there was zero evidence of some type of “money trail” to follow from a very basic, team-friendly contract with some NLTBE incentives. I’m not sure what the debate even is. If you’re telling me that you looked at Thomas’ deal back in March and automatically knew that he was never starting the year on PUP (as the poster suggested multiple times), then you must be Nostradamus. And no matter what, the contract was no type of help to your predictive abilities.

 

[moosekill]

Berrios is not going to make the team. Right now he isn’t that good. Myers is going to make the team. Right now he is that good.

 

[Clonamery]

Berrios is not going to make the team. Right now he isn’t that good. Myers is going to make the team. Right now he is that good.

Feels that way.

 

[Triumph]

The important thing is that it's not too late to talk about it.

It's upside season. We've got three All Pro WRs, a stud 1st round rookie, and everybody's UDFA binkie playing WR for Tom Brady. What's not to love?

1 Andelman broke his thumb. This could be a lingering issue throughout the whole season. Andelman is only Bradys most reliable target.

2 Gordon has never been reliable and put football first. With the Browns, Gordon could not practice during one drama filled episode because he injured himself modeling clothes at a photo shoot. That was the story anyway. BB has to have eyes on him 24/7. Very responsible guy.

3 Harry is a green horn and the rookie wall is very real into a season much longer than his college days.

4 Dorsett is a hologram. 7 games last season his production added up to 0.

5 Thomas best days are behind him.

Im holding off getting the champagne ready.

 

[Sicilian]

1 Andelman broke his thumb. This could be a lingering issue throughout the whole season. Andelman is only Bradys most reliable target.

Did he break it? I thought it was some kind of sprain. Do people recover from broken thumbs in 3 weeks? I don't mean this as an attack, I've just never seen broken in any of the reports, so if I missed something let me know.

2 Gordon has never been reliable and put football first. With the Browns, Gordon could not practice during one drama filled episode because he injured himself modeling clothes at a photo shoot. That was the story anyway. BB has to have eyes on him 24/7. Very responsible guy.

Agreed here, I won't feel comfortable that he's here for the whole season until I seem on the field getting showered with confetti.

3 Harry is a green horn and the rookie wall is very real into a season much longer than his college days.

This is true, but only if he has to play a major role right from the outset. If he's allowed to ease back in with limited snaps for the first half of the season, he should be fine for the latter half, much like Michel was last year.

4 Dorsett is a hologram. 7 games last season his production added up to 0.

I think Dorsett's disappearing act had more to do with Gordon taking his reps. He was solid whenever we needed him to play a bigger role. He's not guaranteed to make the team, he's fighting for one of the reserve spots, but if Gordon had never come back he's not a bad fail safe for that position.

5 Thomas best days are behind him.

Can't argue with that technically. But that doesn't mean he's not still a capable receiver. It remains to be seen.

But regardless of all of the above, you've certainly painted the worst case scenario, and there are still guys like Meyers and Harris that could contribute if one of the others isn't ready or doesn't have it. We've got options, just gotta see how it all shakes out.