Pats - Titans postgame thread

[Family]

I can understand a disagreement on the meaning of playing mop up with UFA rookies and bottom of the roster JAGS, but don't understand how that guy can be a lock to make your team.

Especially with Pennel's contract when John Simon (on the bubble) has over three times the cap hit.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't entirely disagree with you, Andy, you made some good points. NT IS not usually a high profile position, because mostly it's all about doing the dirty work, soaking up blockers in order to make someone ELSE look good......

HOWEVER Pennell was our most high profile FA acquisition,(relatively speaking) who by all accounts (including my own) was wowing us for the first 2 weeks of TC. So, in a game where most of the defensive starters were watching on the sideline, Pennell wasn't even STARTING with the 2nd line players. He came in AFTER the first set of back ups went out.

And while a NT by definition isn't a visible position, shouldn't our designated starting NT be DOMINATING players who are unlikely to make their team's roster, and not "disappearing" against them

Given all that, we have a right to wonder WTF is going one here. Is he being punished for something? Or is he just not even the 2nd best option. OR is Bill just giving him some snaps in order to work on some new technique he's having trouble with? I don't know. but wondering about this situation IS legit.

How did he “disappear”?
When where why a guy, especially a new FA acquisition plays in preseason has never been a predictive thing. Look at JMac last year for example.
I’ll put it to you this way.
We need 3 beefy DTs who can play inside vs the run.
The only guy who fits that description and is definitely here is Guy.
I find it difficult to believe that Shelton who was deactivated last year and not resigned until he couldn’t find another job is number 2 and no one is number 3 while Pennel gets cut.

 

[rochrist]

For those of you who have followed the off season much more closely than me. Sell me on why Meyers isn’t another Tyms, Bam Childress, Chris Harris (muffed punt guy? May have the name wrong).

We’ve gone through many pre season stud wide outs that didn’t amount to anything.

Have you watched him?

 

[Ring 6]

I can understand a disagreement on the meaning of playing mop up with UFA rookies and bottom of the roster JAGS, but don't understand how that guy can be a lock to make your team.

Especially with Pennel's contract when John Simon (on the bubble) has over three times the cap hit.

Not sure what you mean.
Pennell cap hit is 2.15 Simon is 1.66

 

[BradyFTW!]

I can understand a disagreement on the meaning of playing mop up with UFA rookies and bottom of the roster JAGS, but don't understand how that guy can be a lock to make your team.

Especially with Pennel's contract when John Simon (on the bubble) has over three times the cap hit.

I don't think Simon's on the bubble at this point, he's a near-lock IMO. Obviously this post could age really, really poorly though.

 

[Family]

Not sure what you mean.
Pennell cap hit is 2.15 Simon is 1.66

Dead cap is only 500K. That's all they lose if they dump Pennel, yet he costs 2.15 million to keep. And he's playing with the JAGS.

Simon's contract this year is almost completely guaranteed. And he sits with the starters.

Why would Pennel be a lock and Simon not?

 

[Marqui]

I don't think Simon's on the bubble at this point, he's a near-lock IMO. Obviously this post could age really, really poorly though.

Nah, Simon is a lock.

 

[BradyFTW!]

For those of you who have followed the off season much more closely than me. Sell me on why Meyers isn’t another Tyms, Bam Childress, Chris Harris (muffed punt guy? May have the name wrong).

We’ve gone through many pre season stud wide outs that didn’t amount to anything.

The same thought has crossed my mind, and I've tempered by expectations based on it, but there are a few differences I think that point to him being a real NFL player:

1) He's getting it done against first team defenses in-game.
2) He's taking first-team reps in TC
3) He's regularly showcasing the ability to get open. With some of the guys you named (mainly Tyms and Childress) their contributions typically came in the form of 1-2 big plays. They never showed the ability to get consistently open, even against second-team defenses. Meyers, OTOH, is getting open with regularity.
4) Meyers basically went undrafted because he ran a 4.63 40. If he runs a 4.5, he probably gets drafted. It's looking like--much like Malcolm Butler--there's a good chance he just had a bad day and that time is not indicative of his game speed.

Having said all of that, I think it's totally reasonable to dial down expectations for him. Chris Harper is a good example, he was a guy who a lot of us were cautiously optimistic could be a real contributor, and we all know how that turned out. I like Meyers a lot more than I ever liked Harper, but until we see him get it done in the regular season he will remain a big question mark.

 

[ralmat55]

If Pennel is still one of the starters, he was playing last night when no other starter was, and didn't play early in the game when the few that played were in.

Last year everyone thought Jason McCourty wasn’t making the team as he was being used similarly to Pennel in last year’s preseason. Belichick has his reasons and doesn’t share them with us.

 

[jefmblrd]

Watching last night’s game on NFL Network and Charles Davis keeps saying that Matt LaCosse played in the first half and now Kendricks has his number. I realize Kendricks is listed as 81, but do some homework man.

 

[Family]

Last year everyone thought Jason McCourty wasn’t making the team as he was being used similarly to Pennel in last year’s preseason. Belichick has his reasons and doesn’t share them with us.

Last year McCourty was being tried out in a different position. They wanted him to be ready to backup at safety.

Pennel is still playing DT.

It's not that I'm saying Pennel will be cut. But how is he a lock and with his contract how is this not a concern for him?

 

[jefmblrd]

I don't think Simon's on the bubble at this point, he's a near-lock IMO. Obviously this post could age really, really poorly though.

I think Simon is firmly on the 53.

 

[Ring 6]

Dead cap is only 500K. That's all they lose if they dump Pennel, yet he costs 2.15 million to keep. And he's playing with the JAGS.

Simon's contract this year is almost completely guaranteed. And he sits with the starters.

Why would Pennel be a lock and Simon not?

You said Simons cap number is 3 times Pennell’s. That’s wrong.
Dead cap is 1.1 to cut Pennel 2.0 to cut Simon.
Best players make the team with few exceptions based upon cap number.


Again, as I said half a dozen responses ago, this is my opinion, I believe it’s supported and we will know in a couple of weeks so there is no point in arguing.

As it is my habit to respect every post directed at me with a response I will tell you that at this point this seems to be evolving into a competition for you, so I’m out and you can go ahead and have the last word for now, with the actual last word coming when rosters and playing time is proven.

 

[patchick]

And while a NT by definition isn't a visible position, shouldn't our designated starting NT be DOMINATING players who are unlikely to make their team's roster, and not "disappearing" against them

FWIW I was specifically trying to watch Pennel last night. Granted the broadcast didn't make it easy to focus on interior line play, but I wasn't impressed--the Titans' 3rd string seemed to have no trouble opening up running lanes around him. They averaged 6.25 yards per rush attempt in the 2nd half.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Simon is firmly on the 53.

I don’t think they keep all of wino, Simon, Calhoun, Rivers and may only keep 2. Simon has an inside track but it’s not impossible rivers or Calhoun bypass him.

 

[Family]

You said Simons cap number is 3 times Pennell’s. That’s wrong.
Dead cap is 1.1 to cut Pennel 2.0 to cut Simon.
Best players make the team with few exceptions based upon cap number.


Again, as I said half a dozen responses ago, this is my opinion, I believe it’s supported and we will know in a couple of weeks so there is no point in arguing.

As it is my habit to respect every post directed at me with a response I will tell you that at this point this seems to be evolving into a competition for you, so I’m out and you can go ahead and have the last word for now, with the actual last word coming when rosters and playing time is proven.

Fair enough.

 

[catent]

I don’t think they keep all of wino, Simon, Calhoun, Rivers and may only keep 2. Simon has an inside track but it’s not impossible rivers or Calhoun bypass him.

Unless Calhoun is injured he's making the team.

I think him and Rivers are competing for one spot. Prior to last night both had looked good but I think Calhoun had a slight edge. Based on the hunch that Calhoun's injury isn't as severe as Rivers, I think that now gives him a greater-than-slight edge.

 

[Deus Irae]

On Hoyer's early interception. If he had thrown the ball a bit ahead of the receiver, it would have been catchable and Logan would not have been able to undercut the receiver and intercept. But the throw was a mini-second late and slightly behind the receiver's hands.

Moyer's touchdown pass to Myers was likewise a mini-second late and behind the receiver's hands. Fortunately, Myers had a half step on the defender and was able to make a slight adjustment to compensate for Hoyer's ill-timing. Sure, a touchdown, but against NFL first-stringers, it would have been another interception.

This sort of thing will just not do when the games count.

The throw wasn't great.
The route wasn't great.

Thus the desire for hearing BB/JMcD splitting up the blame pie on that one.

 

[patfanken]

How did he “disappear”?
When where why a guy, especially a new FA acquisition plays in preseason has never been a predictive thing. Look at JMac last year for example.
I’ll put it to you this way.
We need 3 beefy DTs who can play inside vs the run.
The only guy who fits that description and is definitely here is Guy.
I find it difficult to believe that Shelton who was deactivated last year and not resigned until he couldn’t find another job is number 2 and no one is number 3 while Pennel gets cut.

Come on Andy. Now you are just being argumentative. He "disappeared" because he was NEVER mentioned in any action, against 2nd and 3rd stringers, and the fact that, according to @patchick, the Titans averaged over 6ypc when they ran the ball in the 2nd half.

Wouldn't you expect at least SOME impact from your top FA signing vs the run ? They all weren't outside plays. Again you'd expect him to DOMINATE that kind of opposition, or at least make ONE play that warranted an announcer to mention your name......ONCE.

Listen, Andy. I'm not a Pennell hater. The guy has been a proven run stopper for a few years now. I read where he graded #1 in some category of some rating service. So I expected the guy to excel, and he DID early on.

Maybe he's having some of the same problems about picking up the system, or new techniques that he's been asked to learn, that haunted Shelton for most of the regular season. I don't know. What I DO know is that he's being out played by Shelton in the last 2 practice games, and it is a legitimate issue to discuss by astute fans of this team.

I mean, aren't you concerned that he isn't dominating future XFL players? Are you in any way satisfied with his performance thus far? All we are asking to to figure out, what's up with Pennell. Maybe your are right and it's nothing, but all the actual evidence say's something's wrong. That's all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Unless Calhoun is injured he's making the team.

I think him and Rivers are competing for one spot. Prior to last night both had looked good, but I think Calhoun had a slight edge. Based on the hunch that Calhoun's injury isn't as severe as Rivers, I think that now gives him a greater-than-slight edge.

I'm not predicting anything, but just saying, since I haven't seen any update:

It's possible that Rivers' knee injury may have decided that already.