qb playoff passer ratings: Bart Starr #1 You'll never guess where Brady is (#14)

[ivanvamp]

The constants in the QB rating formula were set based on league averages decades ago. It would be interesting for someone to make 1955, 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995, 2005, and 2015 versions of the formulas using the averages in those years and see what ratings are under each of those versions. Probably would be a more valid way to compare across eras since you could then say stuff like "Well, Marino was x% better than a typical quarterback in his era while Starr was y% better than a typical quarterback in his era".

I've said for a long time that they need something similar to ops+ or era+ like baseball has - a passer rating that accounts for the era in which these guys played PLUS the stadium they play in. Because obviously playing in windy Chicago or frigid Foxboro is harder than playing in the comfy confines of the Super Dome.

 

[ivanvamp]

Some quick and dirty excel work....Here are some QBs' best seasons (calculated by passer rating) compared with the league average for that year.....

Graham (1946) - his: 112.1, league: 55.4, % of league: 202.3%
Stabler (1976) - his: 103.4, league: 67.0, % of league: 154.3%
Montana (1989) - his: 112.4, league: 75.6, % of league: 148.7%
Peyton (2004) - his: 121.1, league: 82.8, % of league: 146.3%
Griese (1971) - his: 90.9, league: 62.2, % of league: 146.1%
Staubach (1973) - his: 94.6, league: 64.9, % of league: 145.8%
Rodgers (2011) - his: 122.5, league: 84.3, % of league: 145.3%
Young (1994) - his: 112.8, league: 78.5, % of league: 143.7%
Marino (1984) - his: 108.9, league: 76.1, % of league: 143.1%
Brady (2007) - his: 117.2, league: 82.6, % of league: 141.9%
Warner (1999) - his: 109.2, league: 77.1, % of league: 141.6%
Unitas (1958) - his: 90.0, league: 65.3, % of league: 137.8%
Starr (1964) - his: 97.1, league: 71.7, % of league: 135.4%
Bradshaw (1975) - his: 88.0, league: 65.8, % of league: 133.7%
Brees (2009) - his: 110.6, league: 84.3, % of league: 131.2%
Kelly (1990) - his: 101.2, league: 77.3, % of league: 130.9%
Favre (2009) - his: 107.2, league: 83.0, % of league: 129.2%

 

[QuantumMechanic]

@ivanvamp Thanks! That's just the sort of thing I was thinking of. Very interesting!

 

[ivanvamp]

@ivanvamp Thanks! That's just the sort of thing I was thinking of. Very interesting!

Sure thing. It doesn't take into account the fields on which they played though, which is a major factor. Peyton with the Colts playing all his games in either a dome (Indy) or basically in warm-weather environments is vastly different than Brady playing in an outdoor stadium in New England and playing also in NY and Buffalo. But it's interesting for sure.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've said for a long time that they need something similar to ops+ or era+ like baseball has - a passer rating that accounts for the era in which these guys played PLUS the stadium they play in. Because obviously playing in windy Chicago or frigid Foxboro is harder than playing in the comfy confines of the Super Dome.

Brady in a dome/retroroof: 106.52 over 22 games
Forehead in a dome: (where 80% of his games were nice and quiet): 99.1

With that said outdoors w/ Denver 2012 to 2014 he was dominant around 109 QBR

 

[captain stone]

Forehead in a dome: (where 80% of his games were nice and quiet): 99.1

With that said outdoors w/ Denver 2012 to 2014 he was dominant around 109 QBR...

...hmmm...I wonder why that was...

 

[pheenix11]

Tom Brady has played 2.5 seasons of just playoff football in which he has a 75% winning percentage.

Just think about that.

It’s absolutely absurd.

They could play football for 500 years and we’ll never see this again. Ever. It’s mind boggling.

 

[1960Pats]

Agrteed, the funny part is his winning % reg season is 77.5%, in the playoffs 75%, now the sample size for the playoffs is now 40 games the equivalent of 2.5 seasons of FB. That is truly astonishing.

We've really run out of words to describe Brady.

As for PR, the proof is right in front of us. After all these years of watching Brady win so much how can we trust a system that has him rated so poorly? There has to be a flaw in the PR.

 

[1960Pats]

Yep, trying to compare QBs from post-1978 (and especially post-2004) to QBs before then is unfair to the earlier QBs.

Also shows that Bradshaw is one of the most Over-Rated good QBs of All Time.

I'm partial to Bradshaw because of the way he was mistreated by the mediots. In spite of leading his team to so much success they referred to him as dumb.

 

[1960Pats]

I have followed this dude for some time and I don't think he has ever said anything positive about Brady

I never heard of him and I already forgot his name.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes, it’s more complex than comparing raw numbers, but you can adjust form eras and win/loss records are a constant.

In 25 years, you’ll have some new generation talking about how Brady isn’t among the best because he never threw for 75 TDs in a season. I realize it’s a tall task, but I think it’s possible to compare QBs throughout eras, though it gets a lot easier starting around the 1980s.

I think a good way to judge a player's all-time strength is by looking at his success in the era he played. Brady is the QB King of the 21st Century.

 

[1960Pats]

I've said for a long time that they need something similar to ops+ or era+ like baseball has - a passer rating that accounts for the era in which these guys played PLUS the stadium they play in. Because obviously playing in windy Chicago or frigid Foxboro is harder than playing in the comfy confines of the Super Dome.

So true, and something that gets overlooked when we judge passing. It also comes into play in the kicking game.

 

[captain stone]

I'm partial to Bradshaw because of the way he was mistreated by the mediots. In spite of leading his team to so much success they referred to him as dumb.

Well...he kinda was/is.

 

[1960Pats]

Well...he kinda was/is.

I don't think a QB can be dumb and lead a team to multiple titles.

 

[ivanvamp]

I don't think a QB can be dumb and lead a team to multiple titles.

You can be football smart and real life dumb. Or vice-versa. Clearly Bradshaw was football smart.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm partial to Bradshaw because of the way he was mistreated by the mediots. In spite of leading his team to so much success they referred to him as dumb.

Hollywood Henderson: “Bradshaw is so dumb he couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him the c and a”. Still one of the funniest lines ever.
Of course Bradshaw’s current job doesn’t help quell the dumb characterization

 

[TruthSeeker]

Hollywood Henderson: “Bradshaw is so dumb he couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him the c and a”. Still one of the funniest lines ever.
Of course Bradshaw’s current job doesn’t help quell the dumb characterization

To make this more recent, Tony Richardson can't spell "JETS" if you spot him the J, E and T.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Some quick and dirty excel work....Here are some QBs' best seasons (calculated by passer rating) compared with the league average for that year.....

Graham (1946) - his: 112.1, league: 55.4, % of league: 202.3%
Stabler (1976) - his: 103.4, league: 67.0, % of league: 154.3%
Montana (1989) - his: 112.4, league: 75.6, % of league: 148.7%
Peyton (2004) - his: 121.1, league: 82.8, % of league: 146.3%
Griese (1971) - his: 90.9, league: 62.2, % of league: 146.1%
Staubach (1973) - his: 94.6, league: 64.9, % of league: 145.8%
Rodgers (2011) - his: 122.5, league: 84.3, % of league: 145.3%
Young (1994) - his: 112.8, league: 78.5, % of league: 143.7%
Marino (1984) - his: 108.9, league: 76.1, % of league: 143.1%
Brady (2007) - his: 117.2, league: 82.6, % of league: 141.9%
Warner (1999) - his: 109.2, league: 77.1, % of league: 141.6%
Unitas (1958) - his: 90.0, league: 65.3, % of league: 137.8%
Starr (1964) - his: 97.1, league: 71.7, % of league: 135.4%
Bradshaw (1975) - his: 88.0, league: 65.8, % of league: 133.7%
Brees (2009) - his: 110.6, league: 84.3, % of league: 131.2%
Kelly (1990) - his: 101.2, league: 77.3, % of league: 130.9%
Favre (2009) - his: 107.2, league: 83.0, % of league: 129.2%

Lol at people who can’t Graham his due because he’s old news. Any all-time QB ranking lists that doesn’t have him in the top 4 belongs in the waste basket.

 

[SBLIII]

Lol at people who can’t Graham his due because he’s old news. Any all-time QB ranking lists that doesn’t have him in the top 4 belongs in the waste basket.

No, it's an opinion. You have one, others have a different one. Nothing wrong or right.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

No, it's an opinion. You have one, others have a different one. Nothing wrong or right.

Many opinions are right or wrong, or at least more valid when fact checked. Tastes differ, but opinions based on reasoning and facts can hold stronger weight than others. Granted, comparing QBs throughout different eras is a tall task and will turn out to be contested with the truth being more elusive. But to say that in general just because an opinion is an opinion it is therefore equally as valid as any other? That’s naive. Graham’s QB rating was more than 2x the average of his time. A counter point would be more effective than just waving your hands in the air and pointing out that it’s an opinion. Does someone’s opinion that Ryan Leaf is a top 10 all-time QB have equal weight, not being right or wrong, in your book?