Patriots 53 man roster post draft

[BobDigital]

Yeah, Rivers is my 5th DE too, but I would still be surprised and disappointed if he were waived during a pre-season in which he is healthy.

Unless shown otherwise, I will continue to maintain/believe/hope that all 3 of Rivers, Sam & ObiWan can offer more as combined LOS/STs players than 3 of Bolden/King/Ebner/Brooks. Naturally, the formers have to give it everything they have in order to unseat the latters.

While part of me likes the idea of having a lot of depth the pragmatist in me keeps coming back to the fact that at some point it does more harm than good. Even if you could have all pros for your entire depth chart at some point we need to realize their are only so many snaps to go around and ST guys give your team more value.

I don't see the point of keeping guys like Rivers/Sam/Obi if they will only see the field at most for 1% of the defensive snaps (unless we have a massive run of injuries) when we know guys like Ebner/Brooks/King will have impact ST plays.

While I would love to have great depth everywhere at some point it becomes counter productive and actually hurts the product on the field. Personally I would not miss any of Rivers/Sam/Obi. If they want to make the roster then the guys they need to beat out aren't the STers. It is key back ups and depths guys ahead of them. If they can't do that it only proves we aren't losing anything of much value.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I feel we maybe only going 2 tightends this season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I feel we maybe only going 2 tightends this season.

Depends on how you look at it.

If you believe the best 53 football players make the team then I don't thing the 303 TEs on the 90 man roster are in that category.

On the other hand BB might want to keep 3 because they will be more focused on running the ball and because there is too much flux talent at the position they may want to keep 3 and let it play out in September.

OR for the conspiracy theorists they will keep 2 until YOU KNOW WHO decides hes had enough of this whole retirement thing.

 

[captain stone]

...I don't see the point of keeping guys like Rivers/Sam/Obi if they will only see the field at most for 1% of the defensive snaps (unless we have a massive run of injuries) when we know guys like Ebner/Brooks/King will have impact ST plays...

Exactly what impact plays has Brandon the King of STs Penalties ever made?

...While I would love to have great depth everywhere at some point it becomes counter productive and actually hurts the product on the field...

So having too many good players is a bad thing?

...Personally I would not miss any of Rivers/Sam/Obi. If they want to make the roster then the guys they need to beat out aren't the STers...

If Rivers, Obi & Sam show themselves capable of playing on the Big 4 units, then why can't they beat out the STers? Who did those guys beat out originally, and why is their status so damn sacred?

I would rather have a team with young talent at backup positions and teach them how to play STs than have a team with no young talent at backup positions, only STs "aces" who have shown to be completely feckin useless at the LOS. Having too many stiffs like King destroy your depth and your foundation for the future.

 

[DaBruinz]

Looking forward to the "updates" with the following facts:

Brandon King just got a 2 year extension
The Pats cut Bruce Ellington
The Pats signing Jamie Collins.

I chuckle every time I see someone mention the Pats only carrying 8 OL. I think there have been a totally of 2 times in BB's time with the Pats where they carried less than 9. One was due to injury and the other, it didn't last because they cut someone else to re-sign Karras.

I get a chuckle when people insist on lumping STs players in with the regular roster players. Such as putting Slater with WRs or King with the LBs.

The last chuckle I get is when people lump all the DBs together as if playing safety is the same as playing CB. The Patriots have one player D.Mac who has been able to switch back and forth with any consistency. Even then, he's still primarily a Safety. The number of games where Gilmore has "played safety" might be 1.

People are sleeping on Christian Sam. He made the team out of TC last year along with Bentley only to get put onto the IR before the start of the season.

And yes. I am like @long distance in that these sorts of threads are worthless at this time of year because so many things can happen between now and training camp, let alone the start of the season.

 

[Ring 6]

Depends on how you look at it.

If you believe the best 53 football players make the team then I don't thing the 303 TEs on the 90 man roster are in that category.

On the other hand BB might want to keep 3 because they will be more focused on running the ball and because there is too much flux talent at the position they may want to keep 3 and let it play out in September.

OR for the conspiracy theorists they will keep 2 until YOU KNOW WHO decides hes had enough of this whole retirement thing.

The third TE could easily be an OL. With a fb on the roster the need for a 3rd TE is also less than when we didn’t have a fb.

 

[DaBruinz]

Exactly what impact plays has Brandon the King of STs Penalties ever made?

ROFLMAO.. He's been one of the best Special teams players on the Pats since he was signed off the PS. He's been nearly as consistent as Ebner and Slater.

These are the sorts of comments from you that cause people to question whether you even watch the games..

If Rivers, Obi & Sam show themselves capable of playing on the Big 4 units, then why can't they beat out the STers? Who did those guys beat out originally, and why is their status so damn sacred?

You're missing the point, @captain stone (as always). Rivers and Melifonwu haven't shown they are capable of playing on the Big 4 units. Rivers had a whopping 3 special teams snaps. Melifonwu had 25 special teams snaps.

I would rather have a team with young talent at backup positions and teach them how to play STs than have a team with no young talent at backup positions, only STs "aces" who have shown to be completely feckin useless at the LOS. Having too many stiffs like King destroy your depth and your foundation for the future.

The Patriots attempted your approach at the start of last season. Our special teams was atrocious. Sam going down early in the season didn't help. What turned our special teams around? Primarily, it was the addition of ST specialists like McClellan and Humber. Humber replaced Grigsby. Melifonwu took snaps in week 11 and 12, taking some from Holister. Barner was one of the players who spent time on our special teams.

Your claims about King being a stiff are a worthless as tits on a bull.

 

[mgteich]

DEFENSE (25)

THE FRONT SIX (13)
DT (4) Pennell, Guy, Butler, another biggie (Shelton?)
DE/EDGE (4) Bennett, Winovich, Wise, Simon
LB (5) Van Noy, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, Roberts

DEFENSIVE BACKS (9)
CB (6) Gilmore, Jackson, McCourty, Williams, Jones, Dawson
S (3) McCourty, Chung, Harmon

SPECIAL TEAMS (3)
ST (3) King, Brooks, Ebner

BOTTOM LINE
Anyone else will need to beat out one of the above, or make the 53 after injuries. An alternative is that we trade a LB or CB and add a STer (Calhoun or Sam) or DE (Rivers or Davis).

I suspect that we need another LB/Ster and that we will trade Roberts or Dawson.

 

[VectorPrime]

They’re gonna have to do something different than a diagonal line when they get to 7, the trophies will be too small.

 

[DaBruinz]

DEFENSE (25)

THE FRONT SIX (13)
DT (4) Pennell, Guy, Butler, another biggie (Shelton?)
DE/EDGE (4) Bennett, Winovich, Wise, Simon
LB (5) Van Noy, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, Roberts

DEFENSIVE BACKS (9)
CB (6) Gilmore, Jackson, McCourty, Williams, Jones, Dawson
S (3) McCourty, Chung, Harmon

SPECIAL TEAMS (3)
ST (3) King, Brooks, Ebner

BOTTOM LINE
Anyone else will need to beat out one of the above, or make the 53 after injuries. An alternative is that we trade a LB or CB and add a STer (Calhoun or Sam) or DE (Rivers or Davis).

I suspect that we need another LB/Ster and that we will trade Roberts or Dawson.

So, you think that Slater won't make the team?

 

[mgteich]

OK, let's focus on the running game. IMO, we don't need 3 TE's for the running game. One of our backup tackles should be able to be added to the 5 man line as needed. More often, Develin can have that role. I think that 9 OL's, 2 TE's and a FB are just right for the running game, especially when we carry a STer who can take RB reps.

The more difficult roster issue (probably no issue by the time the season starts) is trying to carry 3 QB's, 5RB's and 5 WR's. Some us have us carrying 2 QB's, others 4 WR's.

On the other hand BB might want to keep 3 because they will be more focused on running the ball and because there is too much flux talent at the position they may want to keep 3 and let it play out in September.

 

[50-yard-line]

Have they put up that roster-builder site yet?

That was almost as much fun as mock drafts.

 

[50-yard-line]

OK, let's focus on the running game. IMO, we don't need 3 TE's for the running game. One of our backup tackles should be able to be added to the 5 man line as needed. More often, Develin can have that role. I think that 9 OL's, 2 TE's and a FB are just right for the running game, especially when we carry a STer who can take RB reps.

The more difficult roster issue (probably no issue by the time the season starts) is trying to carry 3 QB's, 5RB's and 5 WR's. Some us have us carrying 2 QB's, others 4 WR's.

If they're keeping two TEs and focusing on teh running game, wouldn't the likely choices be ASJ and Watson and not LaCosse (I don't know much fo the guy, but I read he's more of a move TE)?

Or maybe Izzo sneaks on?

 

[mgteich]

LeCosse is expected to make the team. He has been guaranteed $500K. And yes, he can block.

Patriots Gridiron News: Matt LaCosse is an upgrade from Dwayne Allen

ASJ has only been good for half a season. In addition, he has been guaranteed only $50K. Perhaps, he is an insurance policy in case we didn't find a starting TE, or if LeCosse flopped in camp.

If they're keeping two TEs and focusing on teh running game, wouldn't the likely choices be ASJ and Watson and not LaCosse (I don't know much fo the guy, but I read he's more of a move TE)?

Or maybe Izzo sneaks on?

 

[mgteich]

So, you think that Slater won't make the team?

???

I listed the defense and special teamers usually listed under defensive positions.

As far as STer who are listed on offense, I expect Slater and Bolden to make the 53.

 

[Ring 6]

DEFENSE (25)

THE FRONT SIX (13)
DT (4) Pennell, Guy, Butler, another biggie (Shelton?)
DE/EDGE (4) Bennett, Winovich, Wise, Simon
LB (5) Van Noy, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, Roberts

DEFENSIVE BACKS (9)
CB (6) Gilmore, Jackson, McCourty, Williams, Jones, Dawson
S (3) McCourty, Chung, Harmon

SPECIAL TEAMS (3)
ST (3) King, Brooks, Ebner

BOTTOM LINE
Anyone else will need to beat out one of the above, or make the 53 after injuries. An alternative is that we trade a LB or CB and add a STer (Calhoun or Sam) or DE (Rivers or Davis).

I suspect that we need another LB/Ster and that we will trade Roberts or Dawson.

Only 22 defensive players seems light.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Obviously some things here are going to change between now and the final roster, but it would be nice to just get a look at things. * is added a new player.

QB 3 - Brady Hoyer Stidham

Clearly Brady is a lock as is Stidham being a 4th round pick. Hoyer should be the veteran back up unless they really love Etling. Keeping 4 is possible but unlikely so I think these 3 are a safe projection.

RB/FB 6 - Michel White Harris Burkead Bolden Develin

Not much interesting here. Michel White, Harris, Burkhead and Bolden are all locks. Bolden due mostly to his contract. Unless Develin decides to hang them in camp he should be back. Burkhead being cut would cost 2M and keeping him would cost 3. So he sticks too.

TE 3 - Watson* LaCosse ASJ

Unless the Pats sign another TE I see them going light here. LaCosse got a 500K signing bonus which is almost half his cap hit, so clearly the see a design for him and should be a lock. As for the other player(s) it will be anyone's guess. I'll go with ASJ due to his track record. They could keep a 3rd if they believe Anderson or Izzo are NFL caliber guys.

WR 4 - Edelman Harry Dorsett Thomas

Edelman Harry and Dorset are all locks. For all the questions about Thomas, he's at least played in the NFL and has been productive. If he looks anything like his 2018 self he'll stick. Depending on what happens with Gordon I could see Meyers making a run and maybe Berrios. My UDFA bet is on Meyers right now. I could see the Pats going 6 WRs here eventually once/if Gordon comes back as they may want another pass catcher to help the Gronk-less offense.

OL 9 - Wynn Thuney Andrews Mason Cannon Cajuste Froholdt Veldheer* Karras

This will be an interesting position to watch. As of now the 5 starters along with both 4th round draft picks are locks. Croston probably should hold on a depth OT spot but it isn't certain. The interior will be a vicious fight. Karras, Schwenke, & Ferentz could all make a run at it. I went with Karras due to his versatility but it could go either way. They could also potentially carry 10 but I don't see them keeping 6 IOL men and I don't see a potential 5th emergency tackle right now.

25 total offense.

DE 4 - Bennett Wise Winovich Simon

Bennett, Wise, Winovich and Simons are all locks. Simons due to his contract situation. Even if he has a bad camp they will hope he turns it around and becomes the player he did last year. Rivers could be cut, but about half of his cap hit would become dead money. Maybe Davis or Cowart take a spot but I see them going light on the DL.

DT - 4 Guy Butler Pennel Parry

Guy Butler and Pennel are all locks. This spot could use a signing. Parry a JAG till proven otherwise. Cowart could again fill in as a pass rush DT but there aren't a lot of options besides. This will be an interesting spot to watch going forward. They could also just go Guy Butler and Pennel here and keep a 5th DE to rotate in as a lite DT.

LB - 5 Van Noy Hightower Roberts Bentley King

The first four should be locks. Bentley could be a surprise cut but I don't think so. King should make it due to STs but a cut there is possible. Maybe anther guy is kept instead. Sam and Hall are worth keeping an eye on. Hall is another UDFA who could stick.

CB 6 - Gilmore McCourty Jackson Williams Jones Dawson

I think all of these guys are locks. The only one I could potentially see them cutting is Dawson but you don't tend to give up on a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year. That would be very odd. Crossen is the odd man out and maybe gets on the PS. It makes sense. Without a guy like Tyreek Hill to defend the need for a player like Crossen less. A trade of Dawson to someone else opens this up and could be a move they make.

S 5 - McCourty Chung Harmon Ebner Brooks

Again, all 5 are locks. Brooks is a lock due to his contract situation and STs ability. Not much else to say. I don't see any other safety having a realistic shot here.

Defense 24

STs 4 - Gost, Allen, Cardona Slater

Thanks for the breakdown. Gives a good overview.

 

[RobertWeathers]

OK, let's focus on the running game. IMO, we don't need 3 TE's for the running game. One of our backup tackles should be able to be added to the 5 man line as needed. More often, Develin can have that role. I think that 9 OL's, 2 TE's and a FB are just right for the running game, especially when we carry a STer who can take RB reps.

The more difficult roster issue (probably no issue by the time the season starts) is trying to carry 3 QB's, 5RB's and 5 WR's. Some us have us carrying 2 QB's, others 4 WR's.

A T as a TE is too predictable and if they are going to run 2 TE they need passing options. As much as we like the idea of the running game, the TE still needs to be a passing threat. Carrying two is risky- especially with all of them unproven in this offense (...and Watson is unproven).

Moving Develin out of FB to TE is a waste of his talents. Keep him hammering holes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The third TE could easily be an OL. With a fb on the roster the need for a 3rd TE is also less than when we didn’t have a fb.

LaCosse is not a in-line blocker. Hes more of an H-back.

 

[DaBruinz]

???

I listed the defense and special teamers usually listed under defensive positions.

As far as STer who are listed on offense, I expect Slater and Bolden to make the 53.

It looked like you listed just special teamers under the Special Teams section. Hence my question..