Montana and Young versus Brady and Rosen Anyone?

[XLIX]

The reason I picked 1996 and 1999 was to show that the team had some talent pre-Brady.

And you ignored 2000 and the start of 2001 because it obliterates your argument.

They were 2 years removed from an 8-8 season before Brady took over and 4 years from a super bowl berth. “Atrocious” is cleveland Browns. Some of you are so spoiled with the Pats recent run of success. If 5-11 is atrocious, what was 2-14 constitute in 1992?

I am not going to get into a semantic argument of the word "atrocious." I consider 5-13 atrocious and you don't. Fine.

But no matter how thin you slice it, 14-3 is better than 5-13.

 

[Ring 6]

The reason I picked 1996 and 1999 was to show that the team had some talent pre-Brady. They were 2 years removed from an 8-8 season before Brady took over and 4 years from a super bowl berth. “Atrocious” is cleveland Browns. Some of you are so spoiled with the Pats recent run of success. If 5-11 is atrocious, what does 2-14 constitute in 1992?

Every team has some talent
If Brady didn’t take over the patriots would have had a losing record in 2001.

 

[TheRainMaker]

There was even talk that BB was on the hot seat coming into the '01 season.....

Adam Schefter was on NFL Live a couple weeks ago and briefly talked about how the Patriots were essentially 5-13 under BB before Brady took over. They were just talking about how it wasn’t smooth sailing from the beginning.

Had Bledsoe not got injured and the team had another bad year, Schefter said who knows how the BB regime would’ve played out. Teddy Bruschi was sitting right across from him and had no objections.

Bruschi wasn't even a full time starter at that time. He was primarly a ST'er/back up LB until 2001-2002ish. McGinest was our best player on D along with Law and Milloy. Vinatieri wasn't a legend just yet. Brown wasn't playing WR a lot until the BB era..he did not even have north of 69 targets until 2000 when we threw it to him 119 times. OTIS was not even a starter earlier in his career until giving the Jets two solid seasons during the Testaverde era...then 3 solid seasons in Foxboro. Faulk was known for fumbling the ball with 9 fumbles his first two seasons (25 total in his 12 year career for reference). Andruzzi...I loved him...but he was a lunch pail street FA OL-man...he played above his ability.

On the winning drive against the Rams in SB 36, Brady had these guys at his disposal:

RB: Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, J.R. Redmond, & Marc Edwards.
WR: Troy Brown, David Patten,
TE: Rod Rutledge, Jermaine Wiggins
OL: Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Damien Woody, Mike Compton, and Greg Randall

How many of these guys are in the NFL HOF? Zero.

How many of these guys make the pro-bowl in their careers? 4 I am guessing (Light, Woody, Faulk, and Brown)

How many of these guys are in (or will be in) the Pats HOF? 3 (Faulk, Brown, and Light)

Yeah, the talent level was atrocious in 2000 and it got better in 2001 with amazing contributions from our free agent and draft classes. Just look at how Bledsoe handled 2000....we were calling him one tough SOB for taking 5-6 sacks against the Bucs on opening day....

This is spot on!

That 2000 team looked so bad roster wise, it looked like they were tanking.

I’ll piggyback off of the players mentioned and say that Ty Law was coming off of two down seasons after signing a big contract in ‘98, Milloy was also coming off of a couple bad years, and McGinest was considered at this point a disappointment due to him being injury prone.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If 5-11 is atrocious, what does 2-14 constitute in 1992?

They actually overachieved with that 5-11 record in 2000.

 

[SBLIII]

Rosen isn't the guy.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And you ignored 2000and the start of 2001 because it obliterates your argument.
I am not going to get into a semantic argument of the word "atrocious." I consider 5-13 atrocious and you don't. Fine.

But no matter how thin you slice it, 14-3 is better than 5-13.

I ignored 2000 to show that one bad season (5-11) doesn’t by itself make a team atrocious. Again, 8-8 in 1999, 9-7 in 1998, 10-6 in 1997, and 11-5 in 1996. If you want atrocious, go follow Cleveland.

 

[DW Toys]

Rosen played qb in the nfl in 2018. Brady played qb in the nfl. One played poorly the other played well. To suggest Rosen would have done what Brady did in 2001 is ludicrous unless you are asking us to ignore the plays each actually made in a football field and create an alternate reality.

Just making a "what-if" Cousin
No question about GOAT. Just saying that Rosen might be an answer to our aging QB problem over grabbing some mid rounder and hoping he can be Brady...... In fact let's wait until the 6th round. TB II ain't comin through the door again any time soon.

All we are arguing about is the pundits and so called experts opinions. They say that Rosen would be the second best QB if he was in the Draft this year. I don't know that is true. I am saying his first year starter results were similar to Steve Young who like in this case might be, came over to the 49ers in TRADE to replace Montana. The sides have lined up saying the 2001 Patriots were SB champs only because of TB.

Could Rosen have made the same throws and plays in 2001? Who knows. Just food for thought. I don't deal in time travel.

To be fair I was a Bledsoe guy and questioned BB on the Brady move.

So I have been wrong a whole lot.

I guess it comes down to Daniel Jones, or if he can be had, Rosen on this argument.
I don't know if BB even has interest in Jones.

He might kick QB down the road another year. Remember, TB contract is up this year. Never had that instability with him on contracts. Kind of odd don't ya think?

DW Toys

 

[PatsDeb]

The reason I picked 1996 and 1999 was to show that the team had some talent pre-Brady. They were 2 years removed from an 8-8 season before Brady took over and 4 years from a super bowl berth. “Atrocious” is cleveland Browns. Some of you are so spoiled with the Pats recent run of success. If 5-11 is atrocious, what does 2-14 constitute in 1992?

Super-atrocious.

 

[VrabelJr]

I tried really hard to understand the Rosen love but I don’t. Are people trying to play “diamond in the rough” in hopes to look like geniuses?

 

[PatsDeb]

I tried really hard to understand the Rosen love but I don’t. Are people trying to play “diamond in the rough” in hopes to look like geniuses?

You're namesake tells the tale. The Pats are probably looking for someone who is talented but is being misused in his present situation. I don't get the love either as from what I've seen of Rosen he looks pretty bad out there, but he's certainly had bad coaching and probably had a bad line in front of him. That's why BB and company make the big bucks...

 

[XLIX]

I tried really hard to understand the Rosen love but I don’t. Are people trying to play “diamond in the rough” in hopes to look like geniuses?

I'll be honest and admit where I was wrong: Last year at this time I considered him the best QB of the draft. Clearly, Mayfield was the man. But that doesn't mean Rosen is a bust - at least not yet. I have no faith in Darnold (aka Captain Turnover), Lamar or Allen so I think the race is still on for #2.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Every team has some talent
If Brady didn’t take over the patriots would have had a losing record in 2001.

Bledsoe was a terrible fit for the BB/Weis offense

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'll be honest and admit where I was wrong: Last year at this time I considered him the best QB of the draft. Clearly, Mayfield was the man. But that doesn't mean Rosen is a bust - at least not yet. I have no faith in Darnold (aka Captain Turnover), Lamar or Allen so I think the race is still on for #2.

Living in the LA area, Rosen was an after thought to Sam Darnold. Nobody in the media really cared about Rosen. Darnold can be a good QB, but he is extremely careless with the ball.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bledsoe was a terrible fit for the BB/Weis offense

He looked extremely uncomfortable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I tried really hard to understand the Rosen love but I don’t. Are people trying to play “diamond in the rough” in hopes to look like geniuses?

Clearly you have the position that Rosen sucks. If you thought he was good and was just in a bad situation you wouldn't have said what you did.

 

[Ring 6]

I ignored 2000 to show that one bad season (5-11) doesn’t by itself make a team atrocious. Again, 8-8 in 1999, 9-7 in 1998, 10-6 in 1997, and 11-5 in 1996. If you want atrocious, go follow Cleveland.

The players in 1996 weren’t the players is 2000. The team was in a downward spiral until Mo Lewis saved them.

By your argument the 2018 broncos were a talented team because they were good in 2015.

 

[DW Toys]

Clearly you have the position that Rosen sucks. If you thought he was good and was just in a bad situation you wouldn't have said what you did.

"The Patriots have shown interest, both publicly and privately, in a number of high-profile quarterback prospects ahead of the 2018 NFL Draft. You can add UCLA's Josh Rosen to the list.

As reported by NESN's Doug Kyed, the Patriots are showing interest in Rosen as they get ready for the draft. The first round kicks off next Thursday at the Dallas Cowboys' AT&T Stadium.

Rosen is widely expected to be drafted early in the first round, and has often been compared to fellow highly regarded QB prospects like Sam Darnold out of USC and Josh Allen out of Wyoming. If the Patriots' interest in Rosen were serious, they'd likely be required to package picks and move up in the draft order to have a chance at selecting him.

The Patriots currently hold the 23rd, 31st, 43rd, and 63rd picks in the first two rounds of the draft. They also own a third-round pick (95th), two sixths (19th and 210th), and a seventh (219th)."

Was the interest real? Who knows.
DW Toys

 

[Ring 6]

I'll be honest and admit where I was wrong: Last year at this time I considered him the best QB of the draft. Clearly, Mayfield was the man. But that doesn't mean Rosen is a bust - at least not yet. I have no faith in Darnold (aka Captain Turnover), Lamar or Allen so I think the race is still on for #2.

There is no way you are wrong yet.
The best rookie is not the best career, especially at QB. More often than not it looks very different a few years down the road.

 

[Ring 6]

"The Patriots have shown interest, both publicly and privately, in a number of high-profile quarterback prospects ahead of the 2018 NFL Draft. You can add UCLA's Josh Rosen to the list.

As reported by NESN's Doug Kyed, the Patriots are showing interest in Rosen as they get ready for the draft. The first round kicks off next Thursday at the Dallas Cowboys' AT&T Stadium.

Rosen is widely expected to be drafted early in the first round, and has often been compared to fellow highly regarded QB prospects like Sam Darnold out of USC and Josh Allen out of Wyoming. If the Patriots' interest in Rosen were serious, they'd likely be required to package picks and move up in the draft order to have a chance at selecting him.

The Patriots currently hold the 23rd, 31st, 43rd, and 63rd picks in the first two rounds of the draft. They also own a third-round pick (95th), two sixths (19th and 210th), and a seventh (219th)."

Was the interest real? Who knows.
DW Toys

I don’t dispute they would be interested in Rosen at the right cost. He has potential.

 

[zydecochris]

You're namesake tells the tale. The Pats are probably looking for someone who is talented but is being misused in his present situation. I don't get the love either as from what I've seen of Rosen he looks pretty bad out there, but he's certainly had bad coaching and probably had a bad line in front of him. That's why BB and company make the big bucks...

Exactly. Rosen clearly has plenty of natural talent, I would argue more than all but one or maybe two of the QBs in this draft. Has he been misused by the Cards? Probably. Does he have what it takes to be successful? Well, that looks less likely than at the draft last year, but it is still to be determined. The real question in my mind is how important is football to him, that seems to be the whispers from the Cards (although in fairness it would be shocking if they weren't bad mouthing him in some way to explain why they are trading him so soon). Would be be galvanized by moving to a winning organization with a winning coach (and QB mentor) like NE? Or, no? That is the real question to me.