Montana and Young versus Brady and Rosen Anyone?

[Ring 6]

There's reductive and then there's this, holy Jesus.

Brady joined the team in 2000 and we were awful that year. He wasn't good enough to start yet or else Belichick would have started him.

And Belichick built that team, not Brady. Giving Brady the lion's share of the credit for 2001 is bonkers.

I don't like Rosen but come on.

It’s not a matter of giving him the lions share if the credit it’s a matter of acknowledging Brady playing good QB and leading his team to the Sb is not comparable to Rosen playing poorly and going 3-10.

 

[fnordcircle]

It’s not a matter of giving him the lions share if the credit it’s a matter of acknowledging Brady playing good QB and leading his team to the Sb is not comparable to Rosen playing poorly and going 3-10.

Brady lead a team to the SB in his first year?

 

[Hyped]

It was not that an atrocious of a team. They went to the SB in 96 and went 8-8 in 1999. They weren’t great but “atrocious” isn’t the word I would use.

5-11 in 2000....and the late Joel Buchsbaum polled many NFL front office people asking which team was the least likely to win a Superbowl in the next few seasons....nearly everyone picked the Patriots. The team was so bad that BB brought in 20+ bargain basement free agents.....and even PAID Grey Ruegamer to start a fight during practice to set a tone....

Yes, they were atrocious. Bobby Grier killed the team slowly during the Carroll era...10-6 (1-1 in playoffs), 9-7 (0-1 in playoffs), 8-8 (missed playoffs)....then 5-11 in BB's first year.

There was even talk that BB was on the hot seat coming into the '01 season.....

 

[Ring 6]

Brady lead a team to the SB in his first year?

Yes. They beat the Rams in the SB. Did you miss it?

 

[fnordcircle]

Yes. They beat the Rams in the SB. Did you miss it?

I said first year. It's ok, I know you aren't someone who gets hung up on minutae.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

5-11 in 2000....and the late Joel Buchsbaum polled many NFL front office people asking which team was the least likely to win a Superbowl in the next few seasons....nearly everyone picked the Patriots. The team was so bad that BB brought in 20+ bargain basement free agents.....and even PAID Grey Ruegamer to start a fight during practice to set a tone....

Yes, they were atrocious. Bobby Grier killed the team slowly during the Carroll era...10-6 (1-1 in playoffs), 9-7 (0-1 in playoffs), 8-8 (missed playoffs)....then 5-11 in BB's first year.

There was even talk that BB was on the hot seat coming into the '01 season.....

Roster-wise there were still a lot of good players like Brushi, McGinest, Vinatieri, Bledsoe, Brown, Law, Milloy, Otis Smith, Faulk, and Andruzzi. Let’s not act as if there was no talent on the roster when Tom got here. Atrocious is the pre-Bledsoe years.

 

[scott99]

I like Rosen, a lot. That being said, we don't know if Belichick and the Pats like him enough to give the Cardinals what they are asking for him (a 1st round pick), OR, even like him at all.

Would I ? Yes, to me, he's better than any QB in the 2019 draft. But there's a reason I sit at a desk every day doing NON NFL work, while others work for the Patriots. I don't even know the guy who came out with this rumor in the first place, that the Pats, Giants and Chargers are the teams interested. Could be just making sh#t up.

 

[PatsDeb]

It was not that an atrocious of a team. They went to the SB in 96 and went 8-8 in 1999. They weren’t great but “atrocious” isn’t the word I would use.

They were pretty bad. They went 5-11 in 2000 and started 2001 0-2. That's 5-13 in their last 18 games before Brady took over.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

This thread = a stroll down memory lane

 

[DW Toys]

Roster-wise there were still a lot of good players like Brushi, McGinest, Vinatieri, Bledsoe, Brown, Law, Milloy, Otis Smith, Faulk, and Andruzzi. Let’s not act as if there was no talent on the roster when Tom got here. Atrocious is the pre-Bledsoe years.

Good post

The Cards quality was Peterson, Jones, an older Fitzgerald and David Johnson coming back from injury. Apples and oranges as far as talent. No one else decent even played 16 games. Most 2018 roster missed games due to injury.

Brady was a semi-game manager until later in the season.

Riddle me this to the nay-sayers (I am not the biggest Rosen fan. Just think he might be an answer), Do you think Rosen could have been the equal to Brady in 2001 or was Brady on his way to maximum stardom already? Keep in mind Brady already had a year under his belt out of Michigan. Rosen was a 21 year old kid strait out of UCLA.

So the consensus is that Jones is the better player right now than Rosen to many?

DW Toys

 

[XLIX]

2001 Pats Team atrocious?

Yes, I consider 5-13 in the past 18 games atrocious.

but if you recall, Drew Bledoe was the starting QB and there was a lot of anticipation of a solid 2001 season with him.

And yet they started 0-2 against 2 mediocre teams.

 

[Hyped]

Roster-wise there were still a lot of good players like Brushi, McGinest, Vinatieri, Bledsoe, Brown, Law, Milloy, Otis Smith, Faulk, and Andruzzi. Let’s not act as if there was no talent on the roster when Tom got here. Atrocious is the pre-Bledsoe years.

Bruschi wasn't even a full time starter at that time. He was primarly a ST'er/back up LB until 2001-2002ish. McGinest was our best player on D along with Law and Milloy. Vinatieri wasn't a legend just yet. Brown wasn't playing WR a lot until the BB era..he did not even have north of 69 targets until 2000 when we threw it to him 119 times. OTIS was not even a starter earlier in his career until giving the Jets two solid seasons during the Testaverde era...then 3 solid seasons in Foxboro. Faulk was known for fumbling the ball with 9 fumbles his first two seasons (25 total in his 12 year career for reference). Andruzzi...I loved him...but he was a lunch pail street FA OL-man...he played above his ability.

On the winning drive against the Rams in SB 36, Brady had these guys at his disposal:

RB: Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, J.R. Redmond, & Marc Edwards.
WR: Troy Brown, David Patten,
TE: Rod Rutledge, Jermaine Wiggins
OL: Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Damien Woody, Mike Compton, and Greg Randall

How many of these guys are in the NFL HOF? Zero.

How many of these guys make the pro-bowl in their careers? 4 I am guessing (Light, Woody, Faulk, and Brown)

How many of these guys are in (or will be in) the Pats HOF? 3 (Faulk, Brown, and Light)

Yeah, the talent level was atrocious in 2000 and it got better in 2001 with amazing contributions from our free agent and draft classes. Just look at how Bledsoe handled 2000....we were calling him one tough SOB for taking 5-6 sacks against the Bucs on opening day....

 

[Ring 6]

I said first year. It's ok, I know you aren't someone who gets hung up on minutae.

Take it up with the op. He started the thread comparing Brady 2001 to Rosen 2018 and obviously that’s what I was referring to.
Otherwise, do you have a point you are trying to make?

 

[XLIX]

It was not that an atrocious of a team. They went to the SB in 96 and went 8-8 in 1999.

And they were 5-11 in 2000 and 0-2 in 2001. I consider 5-13 atrocious, but hey that just may be my high standards talking.

Brady took over in week 3 of 2001. You look kinda silly describing the state of the team by looking at the 1996 accomplishment and ignoring the 2000 season (and beginning of 2001). Talk about cherry picking!

 

[XLIX]

There's reductive and then there's this, holy Jesus.

Brady joined the team in 2000 and we were awful that year. He wasn't good enough to start yet or else Belichick would have started him.

And Belichick built that team, not Brady. Giving Brady the lion's share of the credit for 2001 is bonkers.

I gotta dust of an old favorite saying of mine from the usenet days:

The Patriots went from 5-13 before Brady became the starter to 14-3 (and Super Bowl Champions) after he became the starter. Some people think this is just a coincidence.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Montana 4 rings, Young 1 ring.

Brady 6 and counting........If you can guarantee 2 rings for Rosen I'm onboard.

Did you really just put Rosen in the same sentence as Montana, Young, and Brady?

WTF?

 

[XLIX]

5-11 in 2000....and the late Joel Buchsbaum polled many NFL front office people asking which team was the least likely to win a Superbowl in the next few seasons....nearly everyone picked the Patriots. The team was so bad that BB brought in 20+ bargain basement free agents.....and even PAID Grey Ruegamer to start a fight during practice to set a tone....

I remember that report. The Patriots were at the bottom and the Panthers were 2nd from the bottom. Ironically the Patriots would win 3 of the next 4 and while the Panthers didn't win one, they sure came a lot closer than most other teams in 2003.

There was even talk that BB was on the hot seat coming into the '01 season.....

This is absolutely true.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And they were 5-11 in 2000 and 0-2 in 2001. I consider 5-13 atrocious, but hey that just may be my high standards talking.

Brady took over in week 3 of 2001. You look kinda silly describing the state of the team by looking at the 1996 accomplishment and ignoring the 2000 season (and beginning of 2001). Talk about cherry picking!

The reason I picked 1996 and 1999 was to show that the team had some talent pre-Brady. They were 2 years removed from an 8-8 season before Brady took over and 4 years from a super bowl berth. “Atrocious” is cleveland Browns. Some of you are so spoiled with the Pats recent run of success. If one season of going 5-11 is atrocious, what does 2-14 constitute in 1992?

 

[XLIX]

Did you really just put Rosen in the same sentence as Montana, Young, and Brady?

Yes he did but you kinda just did too if we think about it....

 

[Ring 6]

Good post

The Cards quality was Peterson, Jones, an older Fitzgerald and David Johnson coming back from injury. Apples and oranges as far as talent. No one else decent even played 16 games. Most 2018 roster missed games due to injury.

Brady was a semi-game manager until later in the season.

Riddle me this to the nay-sayers (I am not the biggest Rosen fan. Just think he might be an answer), Do you think Rosen could have been the equal to Brady in 2001 or was Brady on his way to maximum stardom already? Keep in mind Brady already had a year under his belt out of Michigan. Rosen was a 21 year old kid strait out of UCLA.

So the consensus is that Jones is the better player right now than Rosen to many?

DW Toys

Rosen played qb in the nfl in 2018. Brady played qb in the nfl. One played poorly the other played well. To suggest Rosen would have done what Brady did in 2001 is ludicrous unless you are asking us to ignore the plays each actually made in a football field and create an alternate reality.