Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Biffins]

You either made that up or are misrepresenting it.
Show a link.

He’s right. They used a fake bomb scare tactic, allowed under the Patriot Act, to evacuate the premises and enter and install the hidden sneak-and-peak cameras. They were allowed to install the cameras under the warrant but the method in how they did it used a provision of the Patriot Act.

Read this article.

Robert Kraft Might Beat Criminal Charges Due to Police Overreach and Privacy Issues

 

[PatsWSB47]

D1ck move? Entire purpose of privacy discussion is about our thoughts in trading privacy/surveillance for potential reduction in crime. Question 100% legit. I guess you don’t have a good answer for it then? I’d be furious. The spa is not a brothel even though prostitution occurred there. Awesome logical fallacy again. Someone you know could have gone there for a legit massage, taken off all their clothes and been ogled by officers. Why do you think these warrants are needed to begin with? People’s privacy needs to be a big consideration. That naked people are being a watched is a “h0ly ****” idea.

Exactly right. A warrant supposedly to investigate human trafficking. How many videos of how many trafficked girls did they need to watch having sex? The videos are uncalled for and releasing them is releasing pornography of people having sex. They arent law enforcement at some point for crying out loud.

 

[XLIX]

Why didn’t he release this statement like 3 weeks so?

Because the owners' meetings weren't 3 weeks ago, they are starting tomorrow. Now they can all point to Kraft's statement when they get asked about it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It was a low class comment. And it wasn’t a privacy discussion it was you accusing me of not caring about my family then placing them in a brothel. Be better than that
I answered.
I live in America where there are laws and procedures for law enforcement to protect ME from criminals. Where a crime is reasonably expected to be occurring our system allows law enforcement to request the right to search and seizure. I value being protected from crime more than I worry who is looking if I stumble into a location being investigated.
You sound like the police are taking the tapes home to show their buddies. That would be a crime.
Do you flip out that you daughters doctor sees her naked?

Nope. I’m aware that the doctor will see nudity. Are the police secretly watching too though because they think my doctor is guilty of fraud? Then, yes, absolutely. See the difference?

 

[Ring 6]

An investigation began after a Martin County detective received a complaint in July from a Florida Department of Health official regarding potential human trafficking at the massage parlors, Snyder said.

Online reviews described Orchids of Asia Day Spa with slang-terms for paid sex, and an investigation of the parlor’s trash revealed bodily fluids, Treasure Coast Newspapers reported.

Surveillance by the Florida Department of Health found that women appeared to be living in the businesses, including Zhang — who was listed as the registered agent for one of the locations.

Authorities found the women were engaging in sexual acts, averaging eight clients a day 1,500 men a year, with no days off, Snyder said. The women slept on parlor tables, cooked in the back of the establishment and had no access to transportation, he said.

For those questioning the motives of the investigation.
It was started with a complaint by the department of health, based upon living and working conditions which surely sound like trafficked “employees”.

'Dozens of arrests yet to come' in sex-trafficking ring, Florida sheriff says

 

[Ring 6]

Nope. I’m aware that the doctor will see nudity. Are the police secretly watching too though because they think my doctor is guilty of fraud? Then, yes, absolutely. See the difference?

If the doctor is under investigation for raling his patients they should be.

Why are you differentiating one professional doing his job from another?

 

[Ring 6]

He’s right. They used a fake bomb scare tactic, allowed under the Patriot Act, to evacuate the premises and enter and install the hidden sneak-and-peak cameras. They were allowed to install the cameras under the warrant but the method in how they did it used a provision of the Patriot Act.

Read this article.

Robert Kraft Might Beat Criminal Charges Due to Police Overreach and Privacy Issues

No he said the warrant was obtained based upon terrorism.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We’ve reached a level in society where police secretly videotape people who are naked and in a setting where they believe they have total privacy, at a spa where anyone can go without even realizing there’s illegal activity there, and the outrage is about a HJ happening?

Wow.

 

[VectorPrime]

We’ve reached a level in society where police secretly videotape people who are naked and in a setting where they believe they have total privacy, at a spa where anyone can go without even realizing there’s illegal activity there, and the outrage is about a HJ happening?

Wow.

Have you literally never heard of a sting operation before?

 

[Ring 6]

We’ve reached a level in society where police secretly videotape people who are naked and in a setting where they believe they have total privacy, at a spa where anyone can go without even realizing there’s illegal activity there, and the outrage is about a HJ happening?

Wow.

You are missing the part where they have obtained a search warrant in accordance with the constitution and 4th amendment in order to investigate and enforce the laws of our land.
Are you that prudish that a professional police officer getting a brief glimpse of nudity is horrific and we should just allow crimes to occur anywhere that nudity is present?

 

[VectorPrime]

You are missing the part where they have obtained a search warrant in accordance with the constitution and 4th amendment in order to investigate and enforce the laws of our land.
Are you that prudish that a professional police officer getting a brief glimpse of nudity is horrific and we should just allow crimes to occur anywhere that nudity is present?

Sounds like this is the kind of guy who thinks an undercover cop is constitutionally required to tell you if they’re a cop if you ask them.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You are missing the part where they have obtained a search warrant in accordance with the constitution and 4th amendment in order to investigate and enforce the laws of our land.
Are you that prudish that a professional police officer getting a brief glimpse of nudity is horrific and we should just allow crimes to occur anywhere that nudity is present?

Well aware. Are you aware that during warrant applications the level of initial certainty for probable cause is often scrutinized later when it turns out badly?

 

[Ring 6]

Sounds like this is the kind of guy who thinks an undercover cop is constitutionally required to tell you if they’re a cop if you ask them.

No I understand his point but he is just being ridiculously narrow.

It would be preferred if when we undressed there was no chance we were doing it during a surveillance of a criminal enterprise rather than there being about a 0.001% chance but there is always a price to be paid for liberty, safety and security.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

If anything, he will love the publicity.

Only if he wins

 

[Ring 6]

Well aware. Are you aware that during warrant applications the level of initial certainty for probable cause is often scrutinized later when it turns out badly?

Of course and I’m sure you are well aware that it is an extremely rare occurrence for a judges determination of probably cause to be overturned even though it’s extrememy common for defense attorneys to take a shot at it.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

You had me until sex slave

Yea people still pushing the sex slave/trafficking angle when its already been made clear that there was no sex trafficking

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Bob alludes to Myra in his public apology. I'm sure he's feeling deeply guilty and shamed.

 

[venecol]

You either made that up or are misrepresenting it.
Show a link.

Here is one of several articles that spoke about the warrant, how it is very rare to be used for these purposes (prostitution) and how they got expanded by Patriot Act for terrorism purposes.

"After the 9/11 attacks, the U.S. expanded the use of secret surveillance in the war on terror. But the tactic has spilled over to infiltrating other crimes, most recently the alleged sex acts at the Jupiter business.

In such cases, so-called sneak-and-peek warrants let authorities access private property so the government can secretly do a search without notifying people under investigation.

But legal experts say the police likely have taken an unprecedented step by hiding cameras on private property for an investigation into prostitution and human trafficking. Celeste Higgins, a University of Miami law professor, said she never saw a sneak-and-peek warrant during her 25 years as a federal public defender. “It’s a very rare thing to have,” she said.

And when these types of searches “get used for a common crime — quite frankly, as insignificant as basic prostitution — it’s very, very troubling,” she said. “That means there is no limit when they could use” it.

“Putting devices into locations is really the ultimate invasion,” she said. “How is this a terrorism case?”

Is sex trafficking enough reason for sneak-and-peek cameras? Legal experts aren’t so sure.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Have you literally never heard of a sting operation before?

Yes - and when they produce nothing but cause a huge nuisance and privacy concerns, they need to be answered for. Because this did not produce the targeted result of said sting operation. The PD has tried wirh PR to confuse failed sting operation with successful abuse of warrant obtained during sting operation and ROBERT KRAFT!!!!!!

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Have we really become this depraved of a society?

Short answer? Yes.