Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Tony2046]

Kraft chose to go to an illegal brothel and get a hand job etc.. and got caught.

How some of you are turning this into a corruption issue is humorous.

 

[Tony2046]

And they may not...this may be a bluff to get Kraft to take their deal. We'll see. My previous post goes into this if one agrees this a good educated take and not a tin-foil hat theory.

I agree that they are trying to force Kraft's hand but they're not going to release the video prior to a conviction because that would be opening their asses up for a major lawsuit. Imo

 

[Kontradiction]

Kraft chose to go to an illegal brothel and get a hand job etc.. and got caught.

How some of you are turning this into a corruption issue is humorous.

I’m actually more surprised anyone read that post.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Bingo!

Please everyone, read @PatsDeb wrote since there seems to be some animosity elsewhere. This is exactly what's happening.

This case is actually quite unique and may become really, really complex. This is a massive chess game/ staredown happening because the video is (a) a bargaining chip of Bob Kraft's legacy, (b) very likely the entire case against him, (c) possibly not admissable and possibly obtained unlawfully, and (d) possibly the result, upon its release, of the ruin of many, many people in law enforcement and public offices who are responsible for obtaining and releasing it. Because depending on its admissability, the video is either public evidence of a criminal activity or an illegal porno video recorded without the knowledge of a person involved.

Let me know when you all wake up and realize the Police Department is, like Kraft, playing one high stakes game of poker right now. If they authorize the video's release, they better be damn sure that is going to be a lawful recording. And based on their offer to Kraft, this is why I think they're not confident. Have away at my reasoning...this is my opinion, and it aligns with everything we've heard.

I think you're reading way too much into the fact that an offer was made. Even if Kraft is definitively guilty as hell and the evidence is airtight and there's no reasonable question as to its admissibility, there are still major costs that the prosecutor must take into account. Mainly that Kraft is loaded and can afford to make this an expensive and time-consuming process for everyone involved, and given what's potentially at stake for him he has every reason to do exactly that. The offer that the prosecutor made does not suggest any weakness in the case itself, more that, given the resources at Kraft's disposal, it's in the best interests of everyone involved that this doesn't get dragged out for as long as Kraft can afford to drag it out. It would be totally reasonable for a prosecutor to decide that all of that just isn't worth it for what is ultimately just a misdemeanor conviction with no jail sentence and a less-than-pocket-change fine anyway.

When people talk about the rich having a different legal system and a different set of legal standards in America, this is exactly what they're referring to. If you have enough money to turn your prosecution into a war of attrition--even one that you're ultimately guaranteed to lose--you can get away with lots of open-and-shut nonsense with little more than a slap on the wrist.

The one area where I will agree is that these suggestions that the tape will become public could be read as a sort of threat to Kraft, that the authorities involved know he doesn't given a **** about any fine, and that the only thing he values that's at stake is his reputation which would take a real hit if the video came out. But even then, it seems like the Sunshine Law is pretty clear on this matter, to the point that it becomes more a statement of fact than a threat. And that just goes right back to Kraft for being ****ing idiotic enough to pick the worst possible state to get a blowjob from a sex slave in. And frankly I'm hard-pressed to care about any consequences that Kraft faces, because he made this bed that he has to lie in. If a bunch of Pats haters want to watch a 77 year old dude get sucked off by a sex slave to stick it to the Pats and their fans, then good for them I guess but they've severely overestimated the extent to which I give a **** about Bob Kraft's reputation. I'd actually find it pretty funny that so many people were willing to subject themselves to something so gross out of some misguided belief that we'd give a ****, if not for the fact that I would feel truly bad for the sex slave herself, who would just be getting victimized all over again by a bunch of self-righteous hypocritical dipshits.

 

[Jimke]

Kraft is fighting like hell to keep his private parts off public display.

 

[Antdawg]

Yeah, the cops are really taking the moral high ground here, protecting the community from unsavory influences like Asian massage parlors. Hell, they'll even make public a very explicit pornographic video of an unwilling participant, filmed in secrecy, if they have to in order to keep their community clean of these evil influences. Man, it's not every day my public officials make me this proud.

 

[Tony2046]

Yeah, the cops are really taking the moral high ground here, protecting the community from unsavory influences like Asian massage parlors. Hell, they'll even make public a very explicit pornographic video of an unwilling participant, filmed in secrecy, if they have to in order to keep their community clean of these evil influences. Man, it's not every day my public officials make me this proud.

Kraft willingly went into an illegal brothel and got a hand job etc.

The police caught him doing something illegal.

So the moral high ground is to let people doing illegal things go? Haha

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yeah, the cops are really taking the moral high ground here, protecting the community from unsavory influences like Asian massage parlors. Hell, they'll even make public a very explicit pornographic video of an unwilling participant, filmed in secrecy, if they have to in order to keep their community clean of these evil influences. Man, it's not every day my public officials make me this proud.

I agree with some of the general sentiment of your post, particularly the general idea that making this video public would just further victimize the only real victim in any of this (the sex slave who's on the video). But that's not really in the police department's hands, as I understand it, and is just a function of how Florida law works. I could be wrong there though, I'm certainly no legal expert.

Having said that, while I don't personally care about prostitution in general and have no inherent moral stance against it, human trafficking (and particularly sex trafficking) is a whole different thing and it absolutely is something that the police should dedicate resources to rooting out and stopping. And where prostitution is illegal, it basically goes hand in hand with sex trafficking, which is at least in my opinion the main argument for legalizing and regulating it in the first place.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I agree that they are trying to force Kraft's hand but they're not going to release the video prior to a conviction because that would be opening their asses up for a major lawsuit. Imo

I don't think it was Kraft's hand that got him in trouble......

 

[maust]

I don't think it was Kraft's hand that got him in trouble......

Could be that was exactly the root cause. If his hand wasn't working properly it may explain why he needed to enlist the use of someone else's. If that's the case then maybe it really would fall under the category of 'therapeutic' massage...

We need some clarification on this, anyone seen Dr Fnord?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Yea who knows. Sounded to me he was trying to short-circuit any considerations or motions Kraft wanted to make to suppress the evidence.

Suppressing the evidence at trial does not mean it can't be made public.

A motion to suppress evidence is orthogonal to a motion to seal the evidence from being released to the public as a public record.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

What happens if they release the video and Kraft is then found not guilty and the evidence is inadmissible, ruled to be an abuse of the warrant?

That depends on the specifics of the very broad Florida public records law. If Florida law makes even evidence not allowed at trial a public record after the trial is over, then it's a public record and anyone can get a copy.

 

[Antdawg]

So the moral high ground is to let people doing illegal things go? Haha

It sure as hell ain't threatening to release a pornographic video to the public that was taken without Kraft's consent for no other reason than just to intimidate him into pleading guilty. When you have to stoop to that level to get a conviction on a non-violent, victimless misdemeanor, you've lost any moral superiority you had going into the situation. Literally tens of thousands of prostitution related convictions in this country without having to stoop to this sort of thing.

 

[XLIX]

I think you're reading way too much into the fact that an offer was made. Even if Kraft is definitively guilty as hell and the evidence is airtight and there's no reasonable question as to its admissibility, there are still major costs that the prosecutor must take into account. Mainly that Kraft is loaded and can afford to make this an expensive and time-consuming process for everyone involved, and given what's potentially at stake for him he has every reason to do exactly that.

Kraft may be rich, but he's not richer than the State of Florida. This isn't some civil suit where the opposing side is hoping to minimize legal costs. You think the 9-to-5 prosecutor is going to care if this drags on 11 months? Just another day at the office for him. If anything, he will love the publicity.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

He sues PornHub and files a cease and desist?

My thought all along has been the traffic stop thing. I'm not expert, but that feels like a 4th amendment violation. That's how they identified him and knew they had their public face.

Depends on what their stated reason was for the stop. You can be legally stopped for an amazing amount of nitpicky things.
Also, even if that ID is thrown out, if the cops can show the court they would have been able to make the ID by other independent means (even if they didn't), then they'll still have an ID.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Robert Kraft Might Beat Criminal Charges Due to Police Overreach and Privacy Issues

Let’s see who has egg on their face when this is said and done. I’ve raised issues that are obvious.

Someone might have a five egg omelet on their face.

 

[Ring 6]

But they haven't released it.

And they cannot release it while the case is pending.

 

[Ring 6]

It sure as hell ain't threatening to release a pornographic video to the public that was taken without Kraft's consent for no other reason than just to intimidate him into pleading guilty. When you have to stoop to that level to get a conviction on a non-violent, victimless misdemeanor, you've lost any moral superiority you had going into the situation. Literally tens of thousands of prostitution related convictions in this country without having to stoop to this sort of thing.

Can we at least learn the facts?
No one threatened to release the video.
The sheriff explained the law surrounding requests made to obtain it.

 

[Soliel]

This is kinda hillarious. Write this down and confront me if wrong.

They ain’t winning this case. I promise you.

 

[maust]

This is kinda hillarious. Write this down and confront me if wrong.

They ain’t winning this case. I promise you.

In a larger sense Kraft has already 'lost' big time, it's now an exercise in mitigating the damage.