Post Game Thread - Pats vs Jags

[mcmurtry86]

This WR group, as awful as it is, is doubly awful because it brings out the worst in McDaniels.The endless useless (except in garbage time) gimmick plays and overly complicated set ups to get Patterson the ball are are awful to watch. McDaniels is a great OC when he has a deep receiving group, but when he doesn't, he comes up with some real dud gameplans.

 

[Kontradiction]

Blaming Brady for this is about as brain dead as it gets when you consider the **** sandwich he’s been served at WR... especially without Edelman. I had a bird’s eye view of this game yesterday. When the Jags pressed, Hogan and Dorsett could not get any separation. They eventually shut down the short stuff in the flats to White as well. Where do you expect the QB to throw the football to if nobody is open? Most of us saw this coming in the offseason unfortunately but as usual the “everything is wonderful” variety of homers and the Belichick fans shouted that down. Belichick himself has clearly seen that it’s an issue with the signing of Coleman and the slew of other workouts and signings at the position. He’s throwing **** to the wall to see if anything sticks. It’ll get better when Edelman comes back but the trio of Dorsett, Hogan, and Patterson aren’t scaring anyone.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Hi BGC, thanks for your posts - I enjoy reading what you write.

I agree Sony looked the part. Not his best game but his athleticism looks very encouraging to me.

Not sure I agree on CP. The sweep play seems to include a fake, a run and a pass option. CP looks athletic but does not seem to understand how to execute all 3 options for that one play. So now we are going to increase his workload? Maybe Coleman would be a better option?

Thanks & we might not have to increase his workload/snaps but rather target him on different routes. Teams have seen him play & know who he is at this point. No one is surprised when we're looking at for bubbles & reverses.

I'm thinking of ways to get the ball in his hands that might catch the defense off guard a bit. Not saying target him a ton but try to take full advantage of his skills.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We spend near the cap every year. Where are we supposed to get more money from...lol?

Other than "they cheat" there isn't another ******** narrative I can't stand more.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Blaming Brady for this is about as brain dead as it gets when you consider the **** sandwich he’s been served at WR... especially without Edelman. I had a bird’s eye view of this game yesterday. When the Jags pressed, Hogan and Dorsett could not get any separation. They eventually shut down the short stuff in the flats to White as well. Where do you expect the QB to throw the football to if nobody is open? Most of us saw this coming in the offseason unfortunately but as usual the “everything is wonderful” variety of homers and the Belichick fans shouted that down. Belichick himself has clearly seen that it’s an issue with the signing of Coleman and the slew of other workouts and signings at the position. He’s throwing **** to the wall to see if anything sticks. It’ll get better when Edelman comes back but the trio of Dorsett, Hogan, and Patterson aren’t scaring anyone.

The good thing is we don't have to use high picks for WR. Im not a fan of RB/WR that early for the most part. There's always plenty of talent after RD1.

That said even w 11 this is a thin, somewhat limited group.

 

[Kontradiction]

The good thing is we don't have to use high picks for WR. Im not a fan of RB/WR that early for the most part. There's always plenty of talent after RD1.

That said even w 11 this is a thin, somewhat limited group.

Agree. Dorsett is usable when he's not pressed. The problem is that defenses know what he can and can't do and he won't see a ton of off man or zone coverage anymore. Same thing with Hogan. The only WR we have that can beat the press consistently is Edelman and...

1. He's still suspended.

2. He's coming off of an ACL.

3. He's on the other side of 30.

It'll get better with him back but this group is not scaring anyone.

 

[FCB02062]

Total FUBAR of a game yesterday, but thankfully it's only week 2. MAny of us on here were satisfied with a 2-2 record in the first month. They're set up, you would thing with @Detroit and Miami remaining, to finish this quarter at 3-1. But the worrisome thing is that it's the Same Old Story, Same Old Song and Dance, my friend with this defense (to quote Aerosmith). Wide open receivers on third and long...gotta get that cleaned up.

 

[Sciz]

We spend near the cap every year. Where are we supposed to get more money from...lol?

Go back to 2016, field an uncompetitive team, and roll over $40 million in cap space to 2017 and then most of that into 2018 as well. It worked for the Jags. Being competitive every season is hard.

 

[Froob]

Agree. Dorsett is usable when he's not pressed. The problem is that defenses know what he can and can't do and he won't see a ton of off man or zone coverage anymore. Same thing with Hogan. The only WR we have that can beat the press consistently is Edelman and...

1. He's still suspended.

2. He's coming off of an ACL.

3. He's on the other side of 30.

It'll get better with him back but this group is not scaring anyone.

There was actually a thread suggesting Patterson can replace Dola lmao.

 

[Kontradiction]

There was actually a thread suggesting Patterson can replace Dola lmao.

Yeah I got a good laugh out of that one.

 

[Jimke]

The problem is the lack of young, cheap talent. The Patriots are paying plenty of guys. Gronkowski, especially with his incentives, is still among the top paid TEs in the league. Gilmore, McCourty, Hightower, Mason, Cannon, and Gostowski all got top-5 deals. For the most part they’re getting their money’s worth out of the veterans, but they’re not getting any boost from rookie deals.

You asked how the Rams do it, and the answer is pretty simple because many teams do the same thing in creating a short term (1-2 year window) by stacking their team with lots of big contracts. They backload the contracts so the cap hits are very affordable in years 1 and 2. They’ll likely be completely hamstrung for many years to come beginning in 2020 and will take 4-5 years to field a competitive team, much like the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills have all done throughout the decade in cycles of going “all in” followed by cap hell. It isn’t a sustainable long-term strategy. The Saints just began to rebuild their team following years of suffering from this strategy, so the idea that your elite quarterback will be enough is not necessarily true.

It's tough to have young, cheap talent if you only have 4 draft choices. Their rookie contracts help offset the big boys. The Patriots have a bumper crop of draft choices next year, 12 are projected with six the first three rounds. They need an infusion of young talent at many positions.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Actually, don't give me that "they just need to hit more on their 2nd round picks" crap

The competition and research that goes into drafting in the NFL is just mind boggling. We are talking billion dollar organizations here. The competition is as cut-throat and prepared as it gets.

And even if you arent a believer in the Market Efficiency Theory, it's pretty clear there is a cap on elite talent in the NFL. There are only so many super talented, NFL players to go around.

This is the one quantifiable and tangible stat when it comes to the NFL draft. The earlier you draft, the better chance you have of that player being a success (with position also having an effect).

And for the past 18 years, Belichick has drafted on average behind everybody else.

It is my theory is that drafting behind all other teams for such extended periods of time IS a very insidious and cumulative handicap -much more so than gets pooh-poohed by posters and pundits like yourself.

But lets take the last five years of the draft not including 2018 (where players are at least in their sophomore year and they have had a chance to start playing the position they were drafted for).

JAGUARS DRAFT POSITION IN THE FIRST ROUND (before trades)
2013 - 2nd
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 3rd
2016 - 5th
2017 - 4th

PATRIOTS DRAFT POSITION IN THE FIRST ROUND (before trades)
2013 - 29th
2014 - 29th
2015 - 32nd
2016 - FORFEITED
2017 - 32nd

Gee.

Where would you like to draft?

Which team would you expect to have better/more talent?

As I've tried to express here. No other team has drafted in a worse average draft position than the Patriots during this same 5 year period.

And over the past 18 years, no matter WHAT five year period you look at, the Patriots have drafted in the worst average position.

So yes, drafting behind all other teams for 18 straight years is going to have a cumulative effect on your team.

Even Belichick's.

Nope. His drafting has been awful. If you don’t spend the big bucks on defense then you have to hit with these picks. Someone mentioned some other teams that have done it besides not picking highly. Right now he can’t get duke dawson on the field and rivers is inactive for some strange reason. Clayborn stinks! Don’t know what he saw in the guy.

 

[mcmurtry86]

Go back to 2016, field an uncompetitive team, and roll over $40 million in cap space to 2017 and then most of that into 2018 as well. It worked for the Jags. Being competitive every season is hard.

Harder when you have almost nothing to show for half a decade of 1st round picks. Being over reliant on FA and trades is a terrible way to sustain success. You can sometimes patch together a winner if you hit on your moves, but it's tough to rely on that method of building

 

[Kdo5]

There was actually a thread suggesting Patterson can replace Dola lmao.

I recall being chided for saying Amendola was worth keeping even if it meant spending a little more money. That we'd be totally fine and Amendola didn't bring much during the regular season etc.

Looks like we could use him right about now. Anyone who was looking at the situation objectively knew this receiving group was going to be a problem.

 

[JackBauer]

I recall being chided for saying Amendola was worth keeping even if it meant spending a little more money. That we'd be totally fine and Amendola didn't bring much during the regular season etc.

Looks like we could use him right about now. Anyone who was looking at the situation objectively knew this receiving group was going to be a problem.

At the very least, if you're going to let him walk, replace him with someone better than Cordarrelle Patterson.

 

[Bruins29]

Well to be fair to the team it was not a "little more money" to keep DA, who is one of my all time fav pats players. It would have been a deal similar to what Miami gave him which is a lot.

Also, they made that decision before they know that JE was suspended and theu did bring in a very productive slot receiver (Matthews) who unfortunately got injured.

 

[Sciz]

At the very least, if you're going to let him walk, replace him with someone better than Cordarrelle Patterson.

They thought the “better than Patterson” guy was already on the roster, but he was hurt from June through August. He’s in for a workout today, so we may see soon if that internal hype was warranted.

 

[iapatsfan]

I can't believe how much the defensive game plan centered on not letting Bortles scramble. They should have brought pressure on him, and dealt with the few big plays that came from it. Better than watching him sit back there with an 8 foot cushion pick apart your stuck in mud LB's and DB's.

 

[PatsFan2]

Harder when you have almost nothing to show for half a decade of 1st round picks. Being over reliant on FA and trades is a terrible way to sustain success. You can sometimes patch together a winner if you hit on your moves, but it's tough to rely on that method of building

Preach mcmurt preach you have been saying this since TC but the BB know it alls kept saying we'll be alright. They can't dig a hole deep enough to hide in. One thing is obvious Edelman should easily take Pattersons place if can'ta run a route two yards pass the LOS you are useless as a WR.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

There was actually a thread suggesting Patterson can replace Dola lmao.

Yea, falling on his ass on a crucial third down didn’t exactly remind me of dola’s Clutchness