Why do you think Patriots assistants are unsuccessful as HC’s?

[Gronk]

Crennel and Mangini sure weren’t very good.

Had they been given as much time as Marvin Lewis they might’ve amounted to something

 

[QB12]

They don't have Brady.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Observer]

Brady makes the coaches look better.

 

[jboston19]

But then why is Andy Reid’s tree so successful?

He's had decent coaches from his tree, none I would consider elite. More success than BB's? Yeah, but given more time, I think a few of bills proteges would've reached a smilar level.

 

[slam]

Let's take it case by case.

Mangini. Went to the Jets. Jets were/are a dysfunctional organization that swallowed up coaches before and after him. Then went to Browns. Ditto.
Crennel. Went to the Browns. Ditto. Possibly not HC material anyway but a DC lifer like Wade Phillips?
Weis. Notre Dame. Impossible expectations at that point with organizational obstacles like higher academic standards.
McDaniels. Of all the assistants, I would have thought this would be the hit. The ownership group was stable and proven, unlike any owner that Mangini or Crennel got. It started out well. And he definitely cleared out some deadwood by jettisoning Brandon Marshall and Jay Cutler. His drafts were horrendous, though. He made enemies, and the actual taping scandal gave them an out.
Nick Saban. Had team doctors nix signing Drew Brees due to medical reasons in favor of Duante Culpepper. The end.
ETA: Bill O'Brien! Forgot about him. Bill is a relatively successful head coach who has brought the Texans to the playoffs multiple times. Even if he's fired at the end of this year, his tenure at Houston (and Penn State probably) isn't a failure.

For Mangini and McDaniels especially, they seemed to go overboard with a "my way or the highway" approach as a way to stake authority. But anyone who's actually gotten any in depth into reporting about the Pats coaching methods always seems to realize that Belichick knows when to ease up and put on the breaks. He's not just a hard ass. And he seems to have genuinely respectful relationships with many of the players. "You always know where you stand with Bill" is something I seem to remember hearing a lot, most recently with James Harrison. Players leave and some are bitter about contract disputes or whatever, but very few are bitter about on field stuff. The actual coaching. We hear about that so rarely we could probably list the critics by name. Cassius Marsh, Adalius Thomas.... Maybe kinda sorta Chris Long.

And let's list four assets that Bill has had in his New England tenure that his proteges don't have: Bob Kraft, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams, and of course Tom Brady. I think having any one of them would be worth a win or two every season.

 

[varjao]

Usually winning teams don't change coach.

 

[Gronkowski123]

tom brady.

close the thread

 

[TomPatriot]

I hate his style of defense

It’s like watching a whole game of prevent defense.

 

[TomPatriot]

Let's take it case by case.
And let's list four assets that Bill has had in his New England tenure that his proteges don't have: Bob Kraft, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams, and of course Tom Brady. I think having any one of them would be worth a win or two every season.

4 point play.

Most people won’t want to hear this but Kraft is the best owner in the NFL. It’s not even close.

McDaniel will be very successful in his next coaching gig. He’s the best assistant BB has ever had.

 

[neckroll#14]

Slam and Varjao were on the right track in my opinion. Teams that suck hire new coaches, so right there the BB tree guys are going into poor situations. Then the ownership cans the new coach in +/3 years, based on W/L record, because they and the fanbase require instant gratification. Then the new coach is deemed a "bust"..

it took 3 years in Cleveland for the GOAT coach to start turning things around and his first year here was lousy (going solely by record). If it takes him 4-5 seasons to see results, no one will ever succeed with an owner having a itchy trigger finger.

I think some of the BB tree guys will/would've succeed(ed) if given enough time to put the BB philosophy in place combined with their own spin on things

For sure this applies to JM (better hope so since he appears to be the heir apparent), BO, CW. Maybe not RC and EM...

 

[DarrylS]

1 game does not determine success or failure..

Stafford's played piss poor last night 4 int.

Better to assess the progress of the Lions after at least one+ season.. the jury is still out.

 

[Kontradiction]

Too early to make any kind of commentary on Patricia. He’s got his work cut out for him up there and ownership should give him at least four years. He’s saddled with a defense that’s almost completely devoid of talent, an OL that has issues in pass protection, and an overrated quarterback that needs defenses to go into a prevent to turn in stats and looks to have become a turnover machine. If Stafford continues to have that kind of year and the Lions are looking at a pick in the top 5, I would not be surprised to see them dangle him in a trade to unload him and shed his cap number. The question would be who would want him.

That said, when you have an offense that’s unable to move the ball consistently, you can’t play the same defense that you did when you had Brady. Doesn’t work like that. You have to take some chances at that point. You’ll get burned every now and again, but you’ll also generate more stops before the other offense crosses the 50 yard line.

 

[Kontradiction]

1 game does not determine success or failure..

Stafford's played piss poor last night 4 int.

Better to assess the progress of the Lions after at least one+ season.. the jury is still out.

Agree but they’ll need more than 1 season.

 

[DarrylS]

Agree but they’ll need more than 1 season.

1+ season as noted above.

 

[Kontradiction]

1+ season as noted above.

I think if he’s worth his salt, it’ll be at least year 3 before they begin a serious turnaround. With Minnesota and Green Bay in that division, they weren’t contending for the North this year anyway. Patricia needs to assess who “his guys” are this year that are already on the team, get them taken care of, and begin a mass exodus in the offseason.

 

[PittPatriot]

Usually winning teams don't change coach.

Detroit Lions tbe last 4 years:
2017 - 9-7
2016 - 9-7
2015 - 7-9
2014 - 11-5

I think Matty P is going to have a lot of doubters after an 0-3 or 1-5 start.

 

[Froob]

Or Caserio, or Ernie Adams..

Or Guerrero.

 

[PatsDeb]

This isn’t to necessarily overreact to one game, but definitley not a good start for Matt Patricia.

I just genuinely want to hear what other posters think the reason is for this trend.

BB is a genius and it's hard to copy him. Also, it takes time and experience to get to where he is. His first stint in Cleveland wasn't so hot. BB was allowed to hone his talents without so much "instant success" scrutiny.

 

[RayClay]

But then why is Andy Reid’s tree so successful?

BB hires young guys from some college that has about a hundred people and trains them in his system, where he somewhat micromanages, but in a good way. Notable that the few outside, or experienced coaches don't seem to do as well [Googs].

Parcels, for example, hired strong willed, presumably experienced coaches and delegated a lot, put a lot of pressure and responsibility on them, like BB, Coughlin and Payton..

BB doesn't want to juggle strong personalities, he wants to win, but he's also not looking for ideas from outside, more groupthink.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady makes the coaches look better.

...and Bill puts the players in position to succeed