Why do you think Patriots assistants are unsuccessful as HC’s?

[PatsFan2]

Except Caldwell took that same team to 9-7 the past two years. Maybe Patricia will turn it around, but they looked unprepared Monday. Being outplayed is one thing but looking like they had no clue is on the coaches.

I think he should be worried about losing the locker room this early. From some articles i've read, vets over there are already tuning him out.

Yeah a Fat guy telling us to get and stay in shape pot calling kettle black??

 

[Thelonious]

Name the coaches better than Bill O. In the league besides Belichick?

Carroll
McCarthy
Garret???
Tomlin???
Harbaugh??????


All coaches suck.

Belichick disciples basically csurvey just above the line..

This is right, I think. Most coaches really do suck. We probably assume that they only seem to suck in comparison to Belichick, understandably enough, but no: they actually do suck the big one in absolute terms.

Your list is evidence of this. Consider as well: Fox, Lewis, Kotite, Fisher, Rust.

Tomlin is, of course, the absolute master of hypersuckage. He stands at a level of aggressive incompetence which may never be matched.

 

[Kontradiction]

Except Caldwell took that same team to 9-7 the past two years. Maybe Patricia will turn it around, but they looked unprepared Monday. Being outplayed is one thing but looking like they had no clue is on the coaches.

I think he should be worried about losing the locker room this early. From some articles i've read, vets over there are already tuning him out.

They've also lost Ebron, Ngata, and Hayden among others. That was also a squad that overperformed last season which was evident in some of their contents against the better teams that they played. There isn't a whole lot of talent on that squad. You're welcome to argue otherwise, but the proof is in the pudding. Patricia has his work cut out for him. I do agree, however, that the play calling on both sides of the ball left quite a bit to be desired.

 

[Boston Boxer]

they are unsuccessful because they go to poor football teams. On top of that they use the BB style of coaching and players don't buy into it because the coaches don't have the same credibility as BB. It take a while to build a good team, and owners are not willing to wait around while the new coach tries to establish something.

 

[Thelonious]

They've also lost Ebron, Ngata, and Hayden among others. That was also a squad that overperformed last season which was evident in some of their contents against the better teams that they played. There isn't a whole lot of talent on that squad. You're welcome to argue otherwise, but the proof is in the pudding. Patricia has his work cut out for him. I do agree, however, that the play calling on both sides of the ball left quite a bit to be desired.

It is a terrible situation Matt finds himself in. No one would win much with that team, with that culture, in that city. It is, though, worrisome how utterly unprepared the team was - scheme, technique, attitude - for the Jets game.

It's a Hobson's choice. Either you try to wheedle and mollycoddle some sort of presentable record out of that bag of losers, or you chuck 'em all out for a group of (inevitably mediocre, at least for a while) newbies, suck your way to a few high draft picks, and rebuild, probably only to hand a team with some actual potential over to your successor.

Patricia would have been wise to have turned down the job, but it's too late now.

 

[Soliel]

It is a terrible situation Matt finds himself in. No one would win much with that team, with that culture, in that city. It is, though, worrisome how utterly unprepared the team was - scheme, technique, attitude - for the Jets game.

It's a Hobson's choice. Either you try to wheedle and mollycoddle some sort of presentable record out of that bag of losers, or you chuck 'em all out for a group of (inevitably mediocre, at least for a while) newbies, suck your way to a few high draft picks, and rebuild, probably only to hand a team with some actual potential over to your successor.

Patricia would have been wise to have turned down the job, but it's too late now.

He would have been better off going anywhere but Detroit. Cleaveland is more likely to be a fair team.
Wonder if he noticed the reference to Dante on the city limit sign

 

[condon84]

They've also lost Ebron, Ngata, and Hayden among others. That was also a squad that overperformed last season which was evident in some of their contents against the better teams that they played. There isn't a whole lot of talent on that squad. You're welcome to argue otherwise, but the proof is in the pudding. Patricia has his work cut out for him. I do agree, however, that the play calling on both sides of the ball left quite a bit to be desired.

Agreed about some of the talents lost. But watching the game, it was more evident that they were unprepared vs the lack of talent.

From reports, they are saying that the defense has not fully grasped the complexity of the defense Patricia is implementing. That's what it looked like on Monday.

And the offense was being called out by the Jets defense correctly.

Those are on the coaches.

I'm not saying they won't improve, just commenting on what Monday looked like. However, if he loses the locker room, he may really need to clean house.

 

[XLIX]

You may think that Newsome was being disingenuous, but Schwartz, Ferentz and Pat Hill have all given BB credit for helping them get started.

Yes and Bill Belichick gives Ted Marchibroda credit for helping him get started. That doesn't make Ted Marchibroda responsible for building the foundation for the Patriots dynasty.

 

[maineman209]

Yes and Bill Belichick gives Ted Marchibroda credit for helping him get started. That doesn't make Ted Marchibroda responsible for building the foundation for the Patriots dynasty.

I must have lost track of the conversation. Did someone claim something about BB being responsible for building the foundation of some former assistant coach's dynasty?

 

[XLIX]

I must have lost track of the conversation. Did someone claim something about BB being responsible for building the foundation of some former assistant coach's dynasty?

The statement made was:

"The ownership, press, and fans, failed in Cleveland. The team that BB built was foundational to the Ravens' success after the team moved."

I disagreed, and then it evolved in the way these conversations tend to....

 

[zoostation]

My guess is too much weight on their shoulders

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think many head coaches are unsuccessful, especially at first. Not just a Patriots phenomenon.

BB didn't do overly well in Cleveland early on. Its having the intelligence to learn from experience and the opportunity of a second chance many times. Certainly looks like Josh will be getting his next attempt here...... We van judge then.

I totally agree with this. You look around the league and how many coaches are tenured for 5+ years? Not many at all.

In my opinion, teams are way too eager to cut loose their head coach/GM and should give them more time. It's usually a 2-3 year window where the coach is expected to start winning immediately. Bill Walsh's first two years were 2-14 and 6-10. He probably would have been fired and then been an assistant or coordinator somewhere in today's world of expectations. Chuck Noll was 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8 in his first three seasons.

I think a it's hard to evaluate a coach until he has a good level of talent to see how he can maximize it, and in the modern game, at least a competent quarterback.

Although Marvin Lewis has not won a playoff game, I like that the Bengals have retained him. The team usually wins roughly according to their talent level, but at least they have a consistent system. If that team had Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady and consistently made good organizational decisions, I think you'd see them contending for Super Bowls like any other elite talented team.

The other problem with such short lifespans of head coaches is that teams are constantly changing their offensive and defensive philosophies with each regime. So players drafted a few years ago may no longer fit into the scheme. I think that's a bad approach long-term and constant resetting of strategy and personnel fits is a huge disadvantage, so I'd only fire a coach if he's really, truly incompetent and is the clear reason why a a team is under-performing consistently. And I'd try to bring in the next coach with similar schemes and philosophies, so there is something to build on already.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Three types of teams in the nfl. Those with a franchise qb, those with an average qb and those looking for a qb.

Bb’s assistants have all gone to teams looking for a Qb.

 

[Bradyking12]

Three types of teams in the nfl. Those with a franchise qb, those with an average qb and those looking for a qb.

Bb’s assistants have all gone to teams looking for a Qb.

Oh Bryan scored with Watson last season but we'll see of he's able to recover from that ACL and not pull a RG3.

 

[Pats2000]

It is one game, but there isn’t a truly positive case of a BB assistant winning a title or otherwise having long term NFL success. The main counter argument would of course be Nick Saban, who’s done ok in college with the same type of meticulous in game prep but also 30k foot view of the overall organization type of worldview that Bill carries. So most of the guys kinda suck, but the one guy thats most similar is unquestionably the best college coach of his era.

Not having Brady is too simple an answer - lots of coaches have not had Brady and won the Super Bowl. But I don’t think the Pats ex-coaches as HC have been less successful than non-Pats coaches as HC, so I’m just gonna say it’s a really hard job that’s success depends on faaar more than your own ability. Most people aren’t successful in the HC job. The Belichick connection and perceived success only heightens our (and others) expectations so the microscope is greater. Maybe Patricia will suck as a HC. But it’s not because he worked for NE. That’s just why he got the job in the first place.

That's because everyone tries to run the org like BB. Look at some of the other great coaches, many of them didn't have much say in who the team drafted or personnel decisions. BB running all aspects of the org is very few and far between.

Also since the salary cap, which coach has had sustained success like the other greats? There really isn't one. It's so much harder to field a competitive team year after year now. BoB has done well, but he's got to many vowels between the B's to ever be as great as the original.

The combination of BB and The greatness of Brady may very well never be seen again

 

[maineman209]

Three types of teams in the nfl. Those with a franchise qb, those with an average qb and those looking for a qb.

Bb’s assistants have all gone to teams looking for a Qb.

Patricia has Stafford. He's at least an average QB, although his "average" may be derived from extremes more than with other average QBs.