Why do you think Patriots assistants are unsuccessful as HC’s?

[Fatmancryin]

I think the front offices play a huge rule on the success of the head coaches.

The difference between being successful in NE and not anywhere else has to do with B.B. releasing players no matter who they are if they don’t have the drive or commitment to the team and become issues.

What coach in the NFL has the balls to sit their #1 CB in the Super Bowl?

It has been reported that the Lions Vererans where revolting against MP from the beginning, if that was B.B. the malcontents would be GONE.

 

[maineman209]

I know folks on this board will shred me for this but even though he deserved to be fired I don't think Mangini did all that bad with the NYJ.

He made the playoffs his first year. 07 was a down year but in 08 if Favre hadn't gone in the tank they would have made the playoffs again. Fat Rex made the playoffs in 09 and 2010 with Mangini's defense.

The other thing that many folks on this board need to understand is that, in organizations like the Jete and the Browns, the HC is merely a 2nd-tier employee. Ownership and the FO in those places make most of the crucial player personnel decisions and most often ignore HC input.

 

[Kontradiction]

How does that relate to the claim that Stafford isn't able to "pull out games" for the Lions?

Usually when you're tossing 4-INTs, you're not pulling out games for the Lions. That said, teams have and could do much worse than Matthew Stafford. But that doesn't change the fact that he is overrated as a QB.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

They lack the panoramic view of running an entire organization.

And Belichick ‘s quickness, amirite??

 

[maineman209]

Usually when you're tossing 4-INTs, you're not pulling out games for the Lions. That said, teams have and could do much worse than Matthew Stafford. But that doesn't change the fact that he is overrated as a QB.

Well, it's certainly valid to ask how many of those Stafford comebacks were the result of Stafford himself putting the team in a position to need to come back in the first place.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

C) And this is pure speculation on my part: I feel like a lot of BB students try to go into their first HC gig and BE Bill Belichick. That doesn't usually work. Bill's way isn't the only way to be successful, it's just the best way for HIM to do it. Bill wouldn't be as effective any other way, but these other guys should try more to be their own style of coach. Was there something you always thought was important that BB kept shooting down? Do it, it's your team. You're better off being 100% of what you do best, than wasting time trying to be 75% of what BB taught you. Take what you learned and adapt it to your own style.

That's the biggest and most important reason.

It seems like when these assistants go off to be HCs they start acting like how the media caricatures BB to be.

 

[GoBlue]

From a Lions fan perspective I'll agree with you on Stafford. I've been a Lions fan since '57 or so. Also a fan of the Pats, and especially since Brady.. The Lions have bred a team with a bunch of guys that would rather set in the hot tub than play. That's all on the old team owner. He coddled players. The players are not taking Patricia's rules and standards to well. It's going to take some time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The other thing that many folks on this board need to understand is that, in organizations like the Jete and the Browns, the HC is merely a 2nd-tier employee. Ownership and the FO in those places make most of the crucial player personnel decisions and most often ignore HC input.

Plus in NY Tannenbaum stabbed Ratboy in the back.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

BB & RK puts a curse on them

 

[maineman209]

That's the biggest and most important reason.

It seems like when these assistants go off to be HCs they start acting like how the media caricatures BB to be.

Or, perhaps, the media simply reports that these guys are acting according to their own caricature of BB. The media controls the narrative.

 

[upstater1]

I'm still kinda stunned that people don't realize that Matt Patricia's defense is really Bill Belichick's defense; Flores' defense is Bill Belichick's defense. If you criticize their stye of defense, you are criticizing Bill Belichick.

Patricia is behind the 8-ball here. Apparently, he has not installed a new offense. The Jets are talking about stealing the offensive signals from last year from looking at tape and tendencies.

 

[maineman209]

From a Lions fan perspective I'll agree with you on Stafford. I've been a Lions fan since '57 or so. Also a fan of the Pats, and especially since Brady.. The Lions have bred a team with a bunch of guys that would rather set in the hot tub than play. That's all on the old team owner. He coddled players. The players are not taking Patricia's rules and standards to well. It's going to take some time.

I started following the Lions in '63, and one of my careers while living in the Detroit area through 1999 put me into a position of being able to meet a few players outside of football, and even to "rub elbows" with Russ Thomas on a couple of occasions. My impression was that WCF, Sr. and the FO played favorites a lot - coddling some players while treating others like sh it.

The consistent thread, though, was indeed not allowing their HCs to enforce much discipline.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm still kinda stunned that people don't realize that Matt Patricia's defense is really Bill Belichick's defense; Flores' defense is Bill Belichick's defense. If you criticize their stye of defense, you are criticizing Bill Belichick.

Patricia is behind the 8-ball here. Apparently, he has not installed a new offense. The Jets are talking about stealing the offensive signals from last year from looking at tape and tendencies.

I realize it. I also realize that he can't play that style of defense with the team he's coaching now without getting blown out. Bill wouldn't employ that style if he didn't have Brady and an offense capable of scoring whenever they touch the ball either.

 

[BTTA]

This isn’t to necessarily overreact to one game, but definitley not a good start for Matt Patricia.

I just genuinely want to hear what other posters think the reason is for this trend.

I'm not willing to accept the underlying premise of your position without data. We first need to have a conversation about choice of metrics:

• Do we measure this by championships? If that's the metric, then a very small % of NFL coaches are successful, and there isn't a large enough sample size of Patriots' assistants to get any kind of accuracy. You'd need at least 100, I'd think.
• Do we measure by winning %? Are they, as a whole, a below or above .500 group?
• Do we measure by tenure? I'd bet that's what matters most to a lot of these guys...just keeping the job and bringing home those salaries. Family first, etc.
• Do we measure by promotion % into head coaching jobs? Given that these are multi million $$ annual salaries, you could argue that just acquiring one for three years is all you need to change the economic fortunes of your family forever, and that's the ultimate metric. If that's the metric, what % of BB assistants get these jobs vs. other head coaches?

I'd like to see the numbers.

 

[turkeyneck]

Can we lighten up on the BB failed in Cleveland trope. He had that team turning around. The ownership, press, and fans, failed in Cleveland. The team that BB built was foundational to the Ravens' success after the team moved. The clown-car operation in Cleveland since has nothing to do with BB.

 

[tasmlab]

The Jets (!) scored 31 points in a single quarter against Patricia's defense. If that's going to happen, thank sweet Jesus that he isn't here.

 

[chasa]

1.) It's not an easy job to win in the NFL.

2.)More often then not the guys are going to teams which are not good when they arrive, and will take time to get better.

3.)most owners are impatient so when a coach doesn't put up BB numbers immediately they get kicked to the curb.

 

[Sciz]

To be fair to Patricia, everybody overrated the Lions roster, especially the former first round picks. People were counting on Ansah to get back into form, Stafford to play at near MVP level, Taylor Decker to play more like 2016 than 2017, Jarrad Davis to improve from his awful rookie season, and Ragnow to provide an immediate upgrade. None of those were even close to happening last night.

Of course, none of those excuses are going to save Patricia from being fired if this continues.

 

[BTTA]

1.) It's not an easy job to win in the NFL.

2.)More often then not the guys are going to teams which are not good when they arrive, and will take time to get better.

3.)most owners are impatient so when a coach doesn't put up BB numbers immediately they get kicked to the curb.

And 98% of the posters on Pats fans would substitute that professional and financial outcome for their own, in a heartbeat.

 

[lancerman]

Can we lighten up on the BB failed in Cleveland trope. He had that team turning around. The ownership, press, and fans, failed in Cleveland. The team that BB built was foundational to the Ravens' success after the team moved. The clown-car operation in Cleveland since has nothing to do with BB.

And let’s not act like he was Cleveland’s savior either. He had one winning season out of 5 and his last season was not a good one. And no I’m not going to give him credit that 5 years later the team won a Super Bowl. Unless you want to say some combo of Parcell or Carroll built the foundation for the 01-04 teams.

It’s simply not a strong enough resume to suggest it’s a check in his favor. Especially when the best offensive and defensive players on those teams weren’t even there when Belichick left