Khalil Mack traded to Chicago

[TheRainMaker]

BB parlayed the 2nd into MM and Thuney.

Again, it had nothing to do with the initial trade. I don’t care what BB did with it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In case you forgot, Jones led the league in sacks. He’s a pretty damn good player.

I did not forget.

Are sacks the only stat you use to evaluate players on the D-Line?

Jones is a good player. Hes just not in the same class as Mack nor is he worth $85m which equals Gilmore and Hightower.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Again, it had nothing to do with the initial trade. I don’t care what BB did with it.

Evaluating a trade is all about the value you receive in return. Short and long term. This includes cap space, players, etc.

To just say, "all we got was a ****ty OL and a 2nd" is not a complete assessment of the trade

By your logic we should exclude by signing Jones we could not have signed Gilmore and Hightower.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I did not forget.

Are sacks the only stat you use to evaluate players on the D-Line?

Jones is a good player. Hes just not in the same class as Mack nor is he worth $85m which equals Gilmore and Hightower.

Higtower needs to stay on that damn field.

Evaluating a trade is all about the value you receive in return. Short and long term. This includes cap space, players, etc.

To just say, "all we got was a ****ty OL and a 2nd" is not a complete assessment of the trade

By your logic we should exclude by signing Jones we could not have signed Gilmore and Hightower.

I already told you I wouldn’t have signed Jones.

What the Pats do with the 2nd pick is on them. So if the Pats drafted two bad players instead of Thuney and MM, that now makes it a bad trade? So we need to wait to see who the Raiders draft to see if they got a good return for Mack? Sorry, but the Cards and Bears have nothing to do with how the Pats and Raiders use what they receive in return for those players.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Higtower needs to stay on that damn field.

Separate issue.

I already told you I wouldn’t have signed Jones.

So your beef is the actual trade.

What the Pats do with the 2nd pick is on them. So if the Pats drafted two bad players instead of Thuney and MM, that now makes it a bad trade? So we need to wait to see who the Raiders draft to see if they get good players for Mack. Sorry, but the Cards and Bears have nothing to do with how the Pats and Raiders use what they receive in return for those players.

Yes it does. Just like it means they used the cap space saved by not signing Jones poorly. The Patriots' motivation in trading Jones was to get value and roster/cap flexibility in return. Maybe they thought Flowers would emerge and wanted him to play? The only way to measure their success is to look at their decisions which derived from what they've gained.

Jones $53m/$85
Cooper

vs
Mitchell
Thuney
Gilmore $40m guaranteed /$65m total
Hightower $19m guaranteed /$35m total
Trey Flowers plays more[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Froob]

In case you forgot, Jones led the league in sacks. He’s a pretty damn good player.

He doesn’t make the plays in big games guys like Hightower and Von Miller do.

 

[Brady6]

Whats wrong with that trade?

We gave up one of the best pass rushers in the NFL who was under contract for a full season in exchange for the #61 pick in the draft. When you compare that return to what Oakland received for Mack it is actually laughable.

BB parlayed the 2nd into MM and Thuney. Its part of the evaluation.

Or you could look at it as him using the extra second round pick he received on Cyrus Jones. That trade could have been made with their own pick which was #60. It was a terrible trade.

 

[Brady6]

Separate issue.



So your beef is the actual trade.



Yes it does. Just like it means they used the cap space saved by not signing Jones poorly. The Patriots' motivation in trading Jones was to get value and roster/cap flexibility in return. Maybe they thought Flowers would emerge and wanted him to play? The only way to measure their success is to look at their decisions which derived from what they've gained.

Jones $53m/$85
Cooper

vs
Mitchell
Thuney
Gilmore $40m guaranteed /$65m total
Hightower $19m guaranteed /$35m total
Trey Flowers plays more

You are reaching hardcore by suggesting Gilmore or Hightower have anything to do with the Chandler Jones trade. The Patriots lost the trade you can use homer manipulation tactics to try and suggest otherwise but in the end you’re just making yourself look like an illogical poster. The Patriots are a great team and Belichick runs the team as well or better than any team in pro sports but sitting here making it seem as if they don’t make mistakes is ridiculous.

Garoppolo for a 2nd - mistake
Chandler Jones for a 2nd - mistake
Jamie Collins for a 3rd - mistake
Top 100 draft picks Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Dominique Easley, Jordan Richards, Jake Bequette, Aaron Dobson, and Tavon Wilson - mistakes.

 

[Brady6]

I did not forget.

Are sacks the only stat you use to evaluate players on the D-Line?

Jones is a good player. Hes just not in the same class as Mack nor is he worth $85m which equals Gilmore and Hightower.

Jones was 3rd in DPOY last year. He is absolutely worth $85M.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We gave up one of the best pass rushers in the NFL who was under contract for a full season in exchange for the #61 pick in the draft. When you compare that return to what Oakland received for Mack it is actually laughable.

You vastly overrate Jones. Above average player but to compare him to Mack is out of wack.

Or you could look at it as him using the extra second round pick he received on Cyrus Jones. That trade could have been made with their own pick which was #60. It was a terrible trade.

You could. I exclude him because he was not a direct derivative from the trade.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are reaching hardcore by suggesting Gilmore or Hightower have anything to do with the Chandler Jones trade. The Patriots lost the trade you can use homer manipulation tactics to try and suggest otherwise but in the end you’re just making yourself look like an illogical poster. The Patriots are a great team and Belichick runs the team as well or better than any team in pro sports but sitting here making it seem as if they don’t make mistakes is ridiculous.

Garoppolo for a 2nd - mistake
Chandler Jones for a 2nd - mistake
Jamie Collins for a 3rd - mistake
Top 100 draft picks Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Dominique Easley, Jordan Richards, Jake Bequette, Aaron Dobson, and Tavon Wilson - mistakes.

Nothing homer about it. Its basic finances and maximizing your cap space with talent available. Why do you think he was traded in the first place?

If you want an answer, name the big-ticket players currently on the roster that would still be here if Jones was paid $53/$85m.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Jones was 3rd in DPOY last year. He is absolutely worth $85M.

So you are in the group that while he was here, Chandler Jones was a consistent DPOY candidate here?

 

[varjao]

It's difficult to say we lost that trade considering we won the SB that year with Thuney and Mitchell both being a big part of it.

If we lose for lack of pass rush like happened against the Eagles it's a different conversation. The goal is to win championships, that trade didn't get in front of it.

 

[Brady6]

Nothing homer about it. Its basic finances and maximizing your cap space with talent available. Why do you think he was traded in the first place?

If you want an answer, name the big-ticket players currently on the roster that would still be here if Jones was paid $53/$85m.

They could have fit him under the cap. A few restructured contracts and it would not have been an issue. If it came down to it I would much rather have Jones than Hightower.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They could have fit him under the cap. A few restructured contracts and it would not have been an issue. If it came down to it I would much rather have Jones than Hightower.

....and they have so much cap space to begin with. You sound like Felger.

High more than 1/2 the cost of Jones.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's difficult to say we lost that trade considering we won the SB that year with Thuney and Mitchell both being a big part of it.

I'm keeping the SB out of it because it has no bearing on the actual outcome of the trade. At the time the team had Sheard, Nink, Long, Flowers which was plenty of depth.

If we lose for lack of pass rush like happened against the Eagles it's a different conversation. The goal is to win championships, that trade didn't get in front of it.

The NEP lost the SB for reasons beyond the lack of a pass rush.

 

[Brady6]

So you are in the group that while he was here, Chandler Jones was a consistent DPOY candidate here?

He was coming off a 12.5 sack, 4 forced fumbles, 1 interception, 3 pass defends, and 3 stuffs which was a more productive season than Mack is coming off and he played for a better defense and a winning team. He might not have been DPOY but he was certainly better than what we ended up with.

You keep talking about a 3rd and 4th round pick but ignore that we would have received a 3rd round pick if we just let Jones walk.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The NEP lost the SB for reasons beyond the lack of a pass rush.

So true. The first rule of defense is stopping the run with just the front seven.

 

[Brady6]

....and they have so much cap space to begin with. You sound like Felger.

High more than 1/2 the cost of Jones.

Adrian Clayborn and Dwayne Allen combine for a $13M+ cap hit next year. We have the cap space so give it a rest.

Also I’m not saying we had to keep Jones I’m saying getting what we got in return was laughable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was coming off a 12.5 sack, 4 forced fumbles, 1 interception, 3 pass defends, and 3 stuffs which was a more productive season than Mack is coming off and he played for a better defense and a winning team. He might not have been DPOY but he was certainly better than what we ended up with.

We ended up with Trey Flowers playing more. I agree hes not Jones but its not a bag of ****.

In NE after Thanksgiving he goes into the tank. Just like the year before that and the year before that. He wears down. AZ plays him off the line so he doesn't have edge responsibility and doesn't get beat up. That works for him there. It didn't work for him here.

If you want to sit there and say he is close to Mack because of his stats I really don't want to debate anymore.

You keep talking about a 3rd and 4th round pick but ignore that we would have received a 3rd round pick if we just let Jones walk.

Which is why they traded him and got the cap space in 2016 and beyond