The 2018 Pass Rush

[BobDigital]

While I wanted them to get a guy in this years loaded draft I can't say I am unhappy with this unit as of now.

Wise and Butler will both be back i'm sure (anyone telling you Butler won't make the team is being silly). Both were 2 of the top rookies at there position last year. Wise really looks poised to break out but I think people are sleeping on Butler too much. I see him becoming a solid pass rushing DT this year (for a 300 lb guy that is).

Rivers will hopefully show off his ability. His talent is legit and he looks healthy in camp. Just behind everyone else mentally. He needs to get reps in.

Clayborn will give the Patriots legit solid depth and will contribute as part of the main 3 man rotation until with Flowers and Wise which will hopefully turn into a 4 man rotation once Rivers is up to speed.

Last year for a time they could be said to have only 1 true starting level DE in Flowers and sometimes 2 with the inconsistent rookie Wise.

Already they are much better at DE this year. Add in Hightower hopefully being here and Van Noy looking ready to step up his game (who was one of our better pass rushers when Hightower was healthy (he got over half his sacks in the 5 games Hightower played) and this unit looks pretty solid. Not to mention Hightower himself can be a good pass rusher too.

This pass rush if healthy will be fairly formidable IMO.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Been saying the same for a minute. It's a vg group if healthy.

We have our workers, guys who can win w power, redirect inside, in Wise & Flowers.

Guys who can threaten the edge w finesse, hands & run the arc.

KVN, HT who can provide pressure via blitz or even on the edge at times.

And I hope no one is sleeping on Butler.

I was explaining this on a podcast the other day but there are certain IDL that can take advantage of the space they get post snap & work like an edge if they have the capabilities. Butler showed some decent hands, use of length & ability to string a club/swat w a Rip for a finish.

Impressive for a IDL udfa rookie.

Can't wait to see a healthy Rivers!!!!

 

[luuked]

I was explaining this on a podcast the other day but there are certain IDL that can take advantage of the space the get post snap & work like an edge if they have the capabilities.

What podcast if I may ask ?

 

[Snooky97]

This will be like our pass rush in 16’ which we missed last season.

I’ve said it a few times in different threads our pass rush is at its best when we have multiple rotations. For me Trey Flowers kicking inside on third down is they key. If someone has the footage of last years Super Bowl we won that purely on our pass rush for the Defence.

Having a line of

Long Trey sheard (not sure who played DT)

That was massive for us whereas we haven’t had Trey inside enough where he is scarily destructive!


This season we got; Wise/Rivers/Clayborn/Trey/Butler/ then we can chuck HT and KVN in there as well!

Adam Butler could be a freak for us with his size and Step! He’s a pass rushing DT who is okay against the run.

This year we have two big lads to clog up that Run Defence in Shelton and Brown.

More confident this year than last year with the D.

My biggest concern at the moment is our #2 CB

 

[DarrylS]

The D line is impressive and deeper than usual..

Every report that I have read has Clayborne out there early and working hard.. Rivers has had a year in this system, but is an unknown. Wise started off well but got somewhat lost mid season.. Shelton and Brown take up a lot of space. Flowers and Butler may even do better with this rotation.

Will see if Flores can put together the pieces of this puzzle without making it too complicated...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Nice post, appreciate your views. What will Guy’s role be this year? I believe he got reps at both de and dt last year, we seem to have added help at both dt and de + some ir’s from 2017 returning.

 

[BobDigital]

Nice post, appreciate your views. What will Guy’s role be this year? I believe he got reps at both de and dt last year, we seem to have added help at both dt and de + some ir’s from 2017 returning.

I'm probably not the best guy to ask. I imagine mostly what it was last year. He will be the starting DT in your normal 4 man set next to Shelton and will be rotated a lot with Butler/Brown. I expect him to move to DE in rush stop formations. The only thing I expect to change is him being at DE as much in a normal 4 man front. He was put there IIRC a few times last season just cause they lacked DEs. That won't be the case this year.

 

[Joey007]

“This years loaded draft”

What?? This was the worst class for pass rushers in years lol

 

[PatsFan2]

So the fact that DE Adrian Clayborn got Six of his Nine Sacks against a very depleted Dallas OL last years means nothing?? That said he seems like a similar player to Trey Flowers I wonder if they Rush both him and Flowers from the Inside on Third Downs?? We would probably be a little lighter up front but that would give us some speed especially from the inside.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

“This years loaded draft”

What?? This was the worst class for pass rushers in years lol

I thought it was solid. Chubb, Landry, Davenport, Lewis, Turay, Sweat, Green, Carter, Fitts, Key, Hubbard, Ejiofor, Kalambayi, Young, Finch, etc, all seemed like they could find places in our front. Next year's class is much better -- we could see a record for DL/DE players in the first round -- but I thought this year had a lot of solid players who could fit into multiple fronts, stop the run, drop into coverage, and rush the passer.

 

[Sciz]

I'm probably not the best guy to ask. I imagine mostly what it was last year. He will be the starting DT in your normal 4 man set next to Shelton and will be rotated a lot with Butler/Brown. I expect him to move to DE in rush stop formations. The only thing I expect to change is him being at DE as much in a normal 4 man front. He was put there IIRC a few times last season just cause they lacked DEs. That won't be the case this year.

It could be nothing, but I thought it was interesting that they recently upped his listed weight from 305 to 315. If he is actually playing heavier than he did a year ago, that could also point toward more of an interior role than last year’s mix of alignments.

 

[Nunchucks]

I am in the "believe it when I see it" camp. Rivers has been disappointing in TC, Wise has looked but good, but he needs to produce in games and play consistently. Butler has been beastly in camp, but he needs to prove it in games.

Flowers has looked kind of bad in camp, so that is concerning. Clayborn has begun to find his mojo, but his play last year was sporadic. I like Shelton and he has been great so far.

Overall, it feels like a group of try hards. This might be enough, but there aren't really guys that just overwhelm with athletic ability besides Shelton who got traded off the Browns... in the NFL, athletic ability can go a long way.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I was cringing during the draft whenever another team drafted a DL or a LB.

 

[Ring 6]

Nice post, appreciate your views. What will Guy’s role be this year? I believe he got reps at both de and dt last year, we seem to have added help at both dt and de + some ir’s from 2017 returning.

I’m hoping guys role will be very limited.
The reason for that is because he is either a huge early down DE or a smallish passing down DT.
Last year he was also used as a starting DT.

At early down DE opposite flowers we now have Clayborn and Wise. It would be disappointing if guy played much there.
At passing down DT we have brown, and can slide any of flowers, Wise, or Clayborn inside with Brown and butler also in the mix.
It would disappointing if guy played a lot in that role.
At starting DT we have Shelton at the nose and brown moving to his real best position off the nose, with valentine backing up Shelton. Guy looks to be Browns backup.

Guy, to me is a super sub backup player along the DL but any time he is on the field (more than just a backup filling in for a series) or means a better player is either injured or struggling.

 

[Ring 6]

I am in the "believe it when I see it" camp. Rivers has been disappointing in TC, Wise has looked but good, but he needs to produce in games and play consistently. Butler has been beastly in camp, but he needs to prove it in games.

Flowers has looked kind of bad in camp, so that is concerning. Clayborn has begun to find his mojo, but his play last year was sporadic. I like Shelton and he has been great so far.

Overall, it feels like a group of try hards. This might be enough, but there aren't really guys that just overwhelm with athletic ability besides Shelton who got traded off the Browns... in the NFL, athletic ability can go a long way.

What are you basing how they look in camp on?

 

[jah]

I am in the "believe it when I see it" camp. Rivers has been disappointing in TC, Wise has looked but, but he needs to produce in games and play consistently. Butler has been beastly in camp, but he needs to prove it in games.

Flowers has looked kind of bad in camp, so that is concerning. Clayborn has begun to find his mojo, but his play last year was sporadic. I like Shelton and he has been great so far.

Overall, it feels like a group of try hards. This might be enough, but there aren't really guys that just overwhelm with athletic ability...and in the NFL, athletic ability can go a long way.

Can you or anyone else elaborate about Flowers looking bad? That's quite surprising and I can't say I've seen any similar claims since camp started.

I generally agree, though. I don't understand why Rivers is considered a lock by most. 3rd round picks get cut in their second year quite frequently, especially when they couldn't get on the field the first year.

 

[Nunchucks]

What are you basing how they look in camp on?

Boston Sports Journal breaks each players performance down for wins and losses, etc.

 

[Ring 6]

So the fact that DE Adrian Clayborn got Six of his Nine Sacks against a very depleted Dallas OL last years means nothing?? That said he seems like a similar player to Trey Flowers I wonder if they Rush both him and Flowers from the Inside on Third Downs?? We would probably be a little lighter up front but that would give us some speed especially from the inside.

They like flowers inside. Brown, Butler, Clayborn, Wise and Guy would be other options.
If rivers is ready go my preference would be
Flowers Wise clayborn Rivers
Left to right but I think they prefer to flip flowers and Wise.

 

[Ring 6]

Boston Sports Journal breaks each players performance down for wins and losses, etc.

Ok I’d consider that a data point rather than whether they are having a good or bad camp.

 

[Nunchucks]

Can you or anyone else elaborate about Flowers looking bad? That's quite surprising and I can't say I've seen any similar claims since camp started.

I generally agree, though. I don't understand why Rivers is considered a lock by most. 3rd round picks get cut in their second year quite frequently, especially when they couldn't get on the field the first year.

He isn't playing with his regular gusto and has been having lackluster 1 on 1 battles. Basically, he has flashed ability in the past, this camp is unusual for him. Although, he has been moved all over the place and playing on the other side of the line, which may affect his play while he learns the ins and outs....but still, he isn't showing up like he has in the past.