Next slot option: Riley McCarron

[maineman209]

Nah, I’d prefer TFlowers-Clayborn-Wise-(rookie) for a total of four at the edge position, since we need to address the likelihood of Flowers leaving in the spring and could use some youth there. You also have the option of playing HT.

No reason to take another rookie at LB, since Rivers is basically filling that role anyway as a first year player. HT-KVN-Rivers-Flowers. Again, having a player on the PS is the difference if that option is available, although that’s going to be said for any of these first two lines of defense.

Ultimately, I’m not sure that it’s necessary to have 5 big bodies up front, especially if you’re going to keep a guy on the PS. Could they try and sneak Butler there? That could be your answer and still allow for an extra (9th) LB/edge player who would likely be another ST linebacker like Langi or someone like King.

Butler may indeed be surplus if Wise can help fill the "big DE/DT" role something like Guy has. I doubt he clears waivers though. Too much game tape on him now.

Rivers is a tough call. After his redshirt year, he could turn out anywhere between Trey Flowers and Shawn Crable. No way for us to know, really, until Camp.

 

[mgteich]

If Wise isn't primarily an EDGE pass rusher, then it really is crucial that we draft one. Personally, I don't think of Wise competing for the role of inside pass rusher with Butler.

With regard to Rivers (and Davis and Langi), I try to be optimistic. However, I know, as we all do, how rare it is to come back from sitting out your rookie year and become a serious contributor. I continue to put Rivers on the LOCK list since we are likely to keep him another year in any case. But I could see him not contributing at all. Surely, we shouldn't be counting on him. He is an injured player out of college with potential. Belichick specializes in this type of player. Some work out; many do not. Given the low cost for these players, Belichick often does very well with them. And then there are the Easley's of the world.

Butler may indeed be surplus if Wise can help fill the "big DE/DT" role something like Guy has. I doubt he clears waivers though. Too much game tape on him now.

Rivers is a tough call. After his redshirt year, he could turn out anywhere between Trey Flowers and Shawn Crable. No way for us to know, really, until Camp.

 

[maineman209]

If Wise isn't primarily an EDGE pass rusher, then it really is crucial that we draft one. Personally, I don't think of Wise competing for the role of inside pass rusher with Butler.

I didn't intend to imply that Wise was competing for Butler's role, or that he wouldn't be primarily and edge rusher. I was merely pondering that if Wise can expand his repertoire to include some inside pass rush (as a supplement to Guy in that regard), it might make Butler a bit superfluous from a head count perspective.

 

[mgteich]

Sure, if our goal were to go with only 4 DT, that would be a viable strategy. I'd rather Wise focus on learning more about playing DE and perhaps OLB. With regard to cross-training, given last year's injuries, I suspect that Wise was cross-trained some.

I didn't intend to imply that Wise was competing for Butler's role, or that he wouldn't be primarily and edge rusher. I was merely pondering that if Wise can expand his repertoire to include some inside pass rush (as a supplement to Guy in that regard), it might make Butler a bit superfluous from a head count perspective.

 

[supafly]

Rivers is a tough call. After his redshirt year, he could turn out anywhere between Trey Flowers and Shawn Crable. No way for us to know, really, until Camp.

For sure. I just think that the situation would be similar with another drafted rookie, that’s all.

 

[maineman209]

viable strategy

Exactly. I was merely considering what might be required to make the 4DT strategy viable. IOW, not advocating for it, just thinking in terms of "how could that work (if at all)?"

 

[Hyped]

Cooks
Edelman
Hogan

Everyone else fighting for 2 spots.

Slater is not a wide receiver.

Slater is a gunner that takes a WR spot or a spot on the offensive side of the ball. And I have Mitchell as a lock...he was almost ready last year and the year before he was the best rookie WR that Brady ever had since Branch, IMO.

 

[Hyped]

I really think that Patterson is behind Dorsett and Britt.

Doubt it. Patterson did more last year as a WR than Dorsett did...and Patterson's value as a KOR (possibly PR) outweighs whatever Britt/Dorsett bring to the field.

 

[Nunchucks]

Slater is behind them also.
Patterson has been a #3/#4/#5 receiver for several years, average 2-3 receptions a game, on the par with our #3, 4 and 5 receivers over the years (including Hogan BTW).

Patterson is our KR and will be active in each game, and our #5 receiver. As long as gronk and White are healthy, I would expect our top 3 WR's to be active, with our #4 WR being inactive.

Mitchell will be active. They will run different groups on the field. Patterson is pure special teams.

 

[Nunchucks]

Doubt it. Patterson did more last year as a WR than Dorsett did...and Patterson's value as a KOR (possibly PR) outweighs whatever Britt/Dorsett bring to the field.

We shall see. I expect Patterson to be cut in camp.

 

[Ring 6]

If Mitchell is healthy, he is in. The guy can play, knows the offense, and Brady trusts him.

But he wasn’t healthy all year. That makes him a contender not a lock.

 

[Ring 6]

Slater is a gunner that takes a WR spot or a spot on the offensive side of the ball. And I have Mitchell as a lock...he was almost ready last year and the year before he was the best rookie WR that Brady ever had since Branch, IMO.

Slater does not take a wr spot. No more than cardona or gostkowski really.
Mitchell needs to be healthy. That is far from certain.

 

[mgteich]

Slater does not take a wr spot. No more than cardona or gostkowski really.
Mitchell needs to be healthy. That is far from certain.

I think it useful to list the STO's with the special teamers. Slater, Ebner and King do NOT play NFL positions.

 

[mgteich]

JUST A THOUGHT
Lets say Edelman, Cooks, Hogan, Gronk, White and Bulkhead are usually healthy. How many additional receptions are left for ALL the rest?

Last year, the answer was 42 for the season or 2-3 per game. These 2-3 catches per game were split among
#4 WR
#5 WR
#2 TE
#3 TE
FB

69 Gronk
65 Cooks
61 Amendola (presumably Edelman this year)
56 White
62 Lewis/Burkhead
34 Hogan (a bit more than 2 per game for our #3 receiver)
42 the rest

QUESTION 1
Do we expect/want a lot more passing?

QUESTION 2
Do we expect a bit more from Hogan than 2 catch game (perhaps one more taken from the RB's)?

QUESION 3
We will have a backup TE, a FB and a 3rd RB who might catch a pass or two doing the season.
So how many more receivers do we need to catch the remaining 2 or so catches a game?
How many more receivers should be active to catch the remaining 2 or so catches a game?

My answer is that we need a 4th receiver active, which could be Patterson if he makes he 53. He has caught 2-3 per game for his entire career. And yes, IMHO, I guess (to be safe), we need a 5th WR who would be usually inactive (although some game plans might have all WR's active).

If we didn't have a 5th solid receiver, I'd carry 2 WR's on the Practice Squad and go with 4 on the 53.

2017
=====
69 Gronkowski
65 Cooks
62 Lewis/Burkhead
61 Amendola (will Edelman have fewer or more?)
56 White
34 Hogan (will Hogan have more than 2 per game this year?)
42 the rest

 

[Ring 6]

If Wise isn't primarily an EDGE pass rusher, then it really is crucial that we draft one. Personally, I don't think of Wise competing for the role of inside pass rusher with Butler.

With regard to Rivers (and Davis and Langi), I try to be optimistic. However, I know, as we all do, how rare it is to come back from sitting out your rookie year and become a serious contributor. I continue to put Rivers on the LOCK list since we are likely to keep him another year in any case. But I could see him not contributing at all. Surely, we shouldn't be counting on him. He is an injured player out of college with potential. Belichick specializes in this type of player. Some work out; many do not. Given the low cost for these players, Belichick often does very well with them. And then there are the Easley's of the world.

Wise is a large 43 DE. He is an early down DE and a passing down DT. I don’t consider him an edge rusher by any means.

 

[Hyped]

Slater does not take a wr spot. No more than cardona or gostkowski really.
Mitchell needs to be healthy. That is far from certain.

He takes 1/53 of the roster and 1/45 on game day...call him whatever you want... but we aren't keeping more than 5 WR's with Slater and other core ST'ers on the roster unless we actually go with 7 WR and cut depth elsewhere.

 

[Ring 6]

He takes 1/53 of the roster and 1/45 on game day...call him whatever you want... but we aren't keeping more than 5 WR's with Slater and other core ST'ers on the roster unless we actually go with 7 WR and cut depth elsewhere.

Whether slater is on the roster or not have no impact on the wr position

We will keep 4 or 5 other players that are WRs whether slater is on the team or not, just as we would keep 4-5 whether ebner or gostkowski or allen are in the team or not.

 

[mgteich]

I strongly agree. However, we could (if we chose) carry an extra WR should we choose to cut a position somewhere else; perhaps at DT; or perhaps at ST.

Whether slater is on the roster or not have no impact on the wr position

We will keep 4 or 5 other players that are WRs whether slater is on the team or not, just as we would keep 4-5 whether ebner or gostkowski or allen are in the team or not.

 

[Ring 6]

I strongly agree. However, we could (if we chose) carry an extra WR should we choose to cut a position somewhere else; perhaps at DT; or perhaps at ST.

We won’t carry 6 WRs.

 

[mgteich]

We won’t carry 6 WRs.

I agree