Next slot option: Riley McCarron

[maineman209]

You keep citing the 2-3 catches per game. That was in an offense that is nothing like the Patriots offense. I'd be shocked, if he even makes the team, that Patterson gets 1 ball every 4 games.

With the reduced emphasis on kick returns, it just isn't worth 3 million a year. I'd rather see Cooks signed to a multi-year deal to get his cap number down. Cooks caught quite a few balls and was very productive in this offense.

AFAIK, the league isn't banning kick returns for this season, so Patterson will still offer value there for 2018. If he's as successful with that as he's been over his past five seasons, and really is a good gunner on ST coverage units, and if he can also contribute some "gadget" type pass plays and running plays that keep produce good yardage often enough to make defenses pay extra attention to him when he's on the field, I don't see his $3M cap hit as being outrageously high. Slater and Ebner are each making $2M as ST-only.

 

[maineman209]

Yeah, there are always surprises...but I am not seeing it with our WR's barring injuries.

And Mitchell was CLOSE to playing as recent as two months ago. He was very good in SB 51 and the best rookie WR Brady has had since Branch...which speaks volumes for me at least. Remember he basically almost broke his arm/elbow to start his rookie year...and still finished strong.

And I am willing to lay down $$$. No fun in letting things play out, LOL. Again, $25 says our WR's (barring injuries or trades) will be listed as: Cooks, Edelman, Hogan, Mitchell, Patterson, and Slater come the 53 man cut down.

The reason I don't make bets like that is because I understand and accept the fact that I really don't know anywhere near as much as I think I know.

 

[Nunchucks]

Patterson had 45,33,2,52,and 31 catches in 5 years/2 teams. Dorsett had 18, 33, and 12 in 3 years/2 teams. He was not even in the top 4 for being targeted with the Raiders last year (Crabtree, Cook, Cooper, Roberts, and Washington all had more targets last year). He still more than doubled Doresett's production here...and Dorsett was 9th in targets last year with 18 balls thrown his way...Patterson had 42 thrown his way.

Kick Returns have been reduced...but they have not gone away yet. I think Patterson is maybe 3-4 yards better than Dion Lewis. In addition, he will get a look at PR and also on jet sweep type of plays. Belichick compared him to Bethel Johnson. He brings more to the table than Dorsett does...and I like Dorsett.



Nope, I expect him to run the same routes Dorsett did last year and come on for some running plays plus KOR/PR plus be a gunner.....

Dorsett was supposedly a guy who studied the playbook deeply. I don't know much about his career. I do know Patterson's though, he was forced fed the ball because of his natural ability. I don't really see that happening here.

The best part is we get to see for ourselves in a few months!

 

[Nunchucks]

AFAIK, the league isn't banning kick returns for this season, so Patterson will still offer value there for 2018. If he's as successful with that as he's been over his past five seasons, and really is a good gunner on ST coverage units, and if he can also contribute some "gadget" type pass plays and running plays that keep produce good yardage often enough to make defenses pay extra attention to him when he's on the field, I don't see his $3M cap hit as being outrageously high. Slater and Ebner are each making $2M as ST-only.

Oh, I agree, but I expect to see Mitchel ahead of him and active on the WR depth chart. Barring injury.

 

[maineman209]

Oh, I agree, but I expect to see Mitchel ahead of him and active on the WR depth chart. Barring injury.

I prefer to wait and see if Mitchell passes his next physical before being concerned about any next injury.

Even if Mitchell is good to go, Patterson is such a "special case" that, if he can just make good on the KRs and gunner assignments, he could make the roster. Whether he's ahead or behind anyone else on the WR "depth chart" really won't matter.

In a way, Patterson's situation somewhat similar to Slater being considered a WR because that's what the "Official Roster" has him listed as. He's about to enter his 10th season with the Pats. Over that time, how many WRs have come and gone who were waaay better at running routes and catching the ball than Slater? And yet ....

 

[maineman209]

Dorsett was supposedly a guy who studied the playbook deeply. I don't know much about his career. I do know Patterson's though, he was forced fed the ball because of his natural ability. I don't really see that happening here.

The best part is we get to see for ourselves in a few months!

From reading what BB and McDaniels, and even O'Brien have said about the off-season process over the years, it seem clear that the coaching staff is pretty much done with training new players in the underlying system by the start of Camp ("installing the offense"). From then, up until the last two weeks of Camp, it's all about reps to get the option reads and timing down. For the last two weeks of Camp (once the media is no longer allowed to witness practice after warmups), it's mostly about studying opponents, game-planning, and practicing specific plays.

Dorsett missed all that. And, given the CBA-mandated limits on practices, it may be nearly impossible for the coaches to get anybody in Dorsett's situation even close to fully caught up during the regular season, whether he was intently studying the playbook or not. Hence, Dorsett's limited usage and route portfolio - the coaches used him in games just for those few things that they'd had time to teach him and give him reps on (and that he executed well enough).

Now, if he has been studying the playbook all this time (and understanding it without really being able to practice much of it), once he gets the full course in the offense under his belt, there's really no telling what he might be capable of by the end of this Camp. That's why I'm not making as many assumptions as others about which WRs make the 2018 roster. There's just no way to know.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There is little doubt in my mind that we are adding a wide rec over or two before camp starts.

We need to sign the Texas tech slot wide receiver as a udfa. He is the next welker.

 

[Betterthanmost]

I think it will be C kirk

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There is little doubt in my mind that we are adding a wide rec over or two before camp starts.

We need to sign the Texas tech slot wide receiver as a udfa. He is the next welker.

Which one? Coutee?

Personally, I'd love to see Cantrell, who apparently can move like Welker but is 6'4".

And remember, if he's the next Welker/Amendola, he won't be in New England until 2021 or 2022.

 

[maineman209]

There is little doubt in my mind that we are adding a wide rec over or two before camp starts.

Yeah. If the Pats have Brady, Hoyer and a rookie QB all needing throwing reps, it seems like a given. Seems likely they might also add a couple OL and possibly even a TE - just to be able to field three complete offensive formations simultaneously.

 

[supafly]

Yeah. If the Pats have Brady, Hoyer and a rookie QB all needing throwing reps, it seems like a given. Seems likely they might also add a couple OL and possibly even a TE - just to be able to field three complete offensive formations simultaneously.

I’m liking the depth and competition at WR, at least thus far. In many offseasons, we’ve done a lot worse, especially considering the fact that guys like Britt/Dorsett/Patterson and possibly even Mitchell will all be on the bubble, fighting for those spots.

At least 3 have some knowledge of the system going in, with 2 (Dorsett/Mitchell) having at least a full season or more. Taking it one step further, I believe that the talent itself is improved upon most years when you look at spots 1-8 (if you include the subject of the thread, McCarron).

Assuming that we’ll add at least two more spots, and perhaps even one somewhere in the draft, this will most certainly be the deepest WR group that we’ve had battle during the spring and summer.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we could add another WR or two or four. IMHO, that will add ZERO to the competition for positions, although I suppose that a new addition might be competition for a Practice Squad spot.

Assuming that we’ll add at least two more spots, and perhaps even one somewhere in the draft, this will most certainly be the deepest WR group that we’ve had battle during the spring and summer.

 

[supafly]

Yes, we could add another WR or two or four. IMHO, that will add ZERO to the competition for positions, although I suppose that a new addition might be competition for a Practice Squad spot.

I suppose I’m not as sold with guys like Dorsett, Britt, and possibly even Mitchell as you seem to be, at least talent wise. The one thing they’ve all got going is prior knowledge of the system, so that’s big.

If they take a shot at a mid round draft pick or believe that McCarron needs to stay, you bet it will add competition.

 

[mgteich]

I suppose I’m not as sold with guys like Dorsett, Britt, and possibly even Mitchell as you seem to be, at least talent wise. The one thing they’ve all got going is prior knowledge of the system, so that’s big.

If they take a shot at a mid round draft pick or believe that McCarron needs to stay, you bet it will add competition.

Let's count. I think that Edelman, Cooks and Hogan are locks. I believe that Patterson is a lock, even if he is the emergency #5 receiver, which I find doubtful.

That leaves ONE open spot. I am not sold with guys like Dorsett, Britt and the health of Mitchell. I do think it extremely likely that ONE of these will make the 53.

And if all of them fail, with Mitchell still injured, I would see us carrying four WR's, with Mitchell on PUP and a couple of WR's on the Practice Squad. This presumes that Patterson is good for a 1-2 catches a game, what we require from the 4th WR.

So, unless all four (Mitchell, Dorsett, Britt and Patterson) are not ready to be the #4, I see no need for further competition, except for the Practice Squad.

That being said, 90 players is a lot. We have plenty of room for Practice Squad competition.
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And yes, I know that media types are rooting for Mccarran. We've had many such players in the past. It makes for good copy. He might even be the star WR in the pre-season. We've had that with WR's in past also, only to see the player waived with the hope that he make the Practice Squad.

 

[supafly]

Let's count. I think that Edelman, Cooks and Hogan are locks. I believe that Patterson is a lock, even if he is the emergency #5 receiver, which I find doubtful.

That leaves ONE open spot. I am not sold with guys like Dorsett, Britt and the health of Mitchell. I do think it extremely likely that ONE of these will make the 53.

And if all of them fail, with Mitchell still injured, I would see us carrying four WR's, with Mitchell on PUP and a couple of WR's on the Practice Squad. This presumes that Patterson is good for a 1-2 catches a game, what we require from the 4th WR.

So, unless all four (Mitchell, Dorsett, Britt and Patterson) are not ready to be the #4, I see no need for further competition, except for the Practice Squad.

That being said, 90 players is a lot. We have plenty of room for Practice Squad competition.
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And yes, I know that media types are rooting for Mccarran. We've had many such players in the past. It makes for good copy. He might even be the star WR in the pre-season. We've had that with WR's in past also, only to see the player waived with the hope that he make the Practice Squad.

As you know, guys like Gilleslee, J.McCourty, Patterson, Rowe, and Dorsett can be cut with zero dead cap hits. Out of the 5, two or three may make it, with the other two or three cut.

I’m nowhere sold on guys like Britt, Dorsett, or Patterson being “locks” to make the 2018 team. You can even go as far to throw Mitchell in that group, depending on his health. The only locks I’d have would be Cooks, Edelman, and Hogan. As you suggest, the rest will battle it out for the remaining two spots.

As always, both the present and the future of the position will be taken into account. The position of kick returner may end up being addressed in the draft.