Schefter: Ebron may visit New England

[50-yard-line]

Sorry 50 but had to stop reading right there...the 2017 Dwayne Allen look like he's at the beginning of the end of being a capable pass catcher in this league.

He had 35 receptions and 400+ yards in 2016. Just because he wasn't used in that capacity by a team LOADED with receiving options...

When he was in the game, he usually had Gronkowski, Cooks, Amendola, and one of Burkhead/White/Lewis in there with him. Again, if it had been Kittle in there with that supporting cast, think he would have gotten 63 targets?

 

[Sciz]

50: Kittle was brought to my attention in the Draft Forum last year he's from a predominantly running school Iowa. He can do it all and would have been a Great value pick for us on Day 3. I wish some of those Patriot Scouts paid attention to our Draft Forum. That said Marty when healthy is a complete TE which Allen is not.

The Hawkeyes' run game coordinator at the time (since then promoted to offensive coordinator) is the Patriots' former tight ends coach. Was there a single player in that draft class who Belichick could get a more informed opinion on than that?

 

[maineman209]

A lot goes into that. There were health concerns at Tackle and the obvious constraints of a 53 man roster and 45 active on game day.

If Allen sucked so hard at blocking and wasn't contributing to the passing game, the Pats could easily have had Croston among the game-day actives every week and sat Allen. It would've had no effect on the injury situation at tackle.

But forget his blocking we didn't even have someone else to back up Gronk. BB is master of using guys best traits. Again they did just fine the year before without Allen.

Right, and BB used Allen for his blocking - but, yeah, forget about that. And, in 2016, the Pats had Bennett (who was a very good blocker, BTW). And, once Gronk got hurt they had to use a combo of Fleming, Develin and Lengel as the blocking TE - because they didn't have a guy like Allen to anchor TE blocking assignments (and they were fortunate to have acquired Lengel a little over a week before Gronk got hurt.

That was last year's problem, you tell me how we get more out of TE2 and TE3 while paying Allen what he's set to make this year? And god for bid Gronk gets hurt.

"TE3" has never been a "receiving backup" to TE1 for the Pats. It's always been a blocking position, and didn't matter if the guy in that spot couldn't catch much at all. Allen fulfilled that role just fine in 2017.

The source of your expectations of Allen, and of your disillusionment, seems like it must be the fact that Allen did put up decent receiving production in Indy and didn't last season with the Pats. The thing is, the fact that he didn't last season, doesn't guarantee that he won't be better next season.

As far as the cap-cost/benefit relationship goes, it's not particularly difficult to restructure his contract via an extension that provides him with guaranteed money (something he doesn't currently have) while simultaneously reducing both his 2018 and 2019 cap hits by a significant amount.

 

[PatsFan2]

The Hawkeyes' run game coordinator at the time (since then promoted to offensive coordinator) is the Patriots' former tight ends coach. Was there a single player in that draft class who Belichick could get a more informed opinion on than that?

My hands are up in the air too *sighs*.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Ebron hasn’t signed so I’m guessing he’s visiting tomorrow. Some notes:





He’ll probably be out of our price range but another interesting potential upside signing.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Ebron hasn’t signed so I’m guessing he’s visiting tomorrow. Some notes:





He’ll probably be out of our price range but another interesting potential upside signing.

IDK don't think the price will be out of line. He's been a disappointment in regards to where he was drafted, and production. Again injuries, and usage damaged his market. The Pats are targeting these guys.

 

[Love The Drake]

Good goal line threat
Sign the beast
Dont know wby Patricia doesnt want him

 

[Uptown]

If he comes at somewhat of a bargain and can improve his blocking techniques, I’m all for it.

 

[luuked]

The fact you say Allen and elite in the same sentence means we can stop this debate.

Yes. Because it shows you have no clue what you are watching. He was a great blocker last year and considering other TEs in the league he is definitely borderline elite at it.

With what the Pats knew about him I think it's safe to assume they expected more than a good blocker and 10 catches, 86 yards and 1 TD. That's a decent game by Gronks standards.

Yes he came up short. About 220-250 yards with 2-3 TDs would be the ideal case for a player in his role. Some drops and some bad passes by Brady pretty much screwed that up. However, what does not show up on the stats sheet are the TDs and plays that were made off his decoy routes (Gronk TD against Chargers comes to mind) and blocking (go ahead TD against the Steelers comes to mind). Minimizing his value to 90 yards and a TD is just misleading.

In the end it is your own expectations and failure to understand roles on the team that leads to disappointment. You can't have every player on the offense reach personal bests in terms of yards and TDs each year. He was behind Gronk, Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, Lewis, White on every play.

Is he overpaid ? With players like Trey Burton making 8m APY this offseason I am not sure he is. Would it make sense to restructure his contract from 5m to about 3.5m with incentives ? Most probably. Will he do it ? Who knows..

 

[Soliel]

If he comes at somewhat of a bargain and can improve his blocking techniques, I’m all for it.

Patricia likes tight ends who can block maybe.
My buddies that for some mad reason like the lions say that Ebron can’t block and is garbage

 

[PatsFan2]

How many good fundamental HC's have Detriot had during Ebron's 4 years?? Also I am not a fan of his Choke artist QB Matthew Stafford. Ebron's receiving numbers may be much better than regarded. If I was BB I would take a flier and see how he does in TC.

 

[JMC00]

I think he's still only 24-25. Signing a 1 year small money deal in NE if offered with how they've used TEs wouldn't be the worst thing. Try to build some good rep up with a good team and hit the market next year.

Basically like what Hill is doing.

 

[Soliel]

How many good fundamental HC's have Detriot had during Ebron's 4 years?? Also I am not a fan of his Choke artist QB Matthew Stafford. Ebron's receiving numbers may be much better than regarded. If I was BB I would take a flier and see how he does in TC.

After looking at his numbers and considering how awful the lions coaching, quarterback, offense, defense, special teams, fans, ownership, hosts, tv stations, advertising, endorsements etc are. Maybe he worth a shot.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Not sure why brady would throw to him if he’s not reliable, as many people say.

 

[primetime]

I don't know why people are talking about Ebron and Allen as if they're comparable. One's an F tight end and the other's a Y. Ebron can't block and would be competing with players like James White, James Develin, and Jacob Hollister in terms of how he lines up and the role he fulfills.

I'm not a big Ebron fan and I think he's a luxury piece that the Patriots can't afford right now, but he's not competing with Allen.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Visiting Colts today, per Rap.

 

[Soliel]

I don't know why people are talking about Ebron and Allen as if they're comparable. One's an F tight end and the other's a Y. Ebron can't block and would be competing with players like James White, James Develin, and Jacob Hollister in terms of how he lines up and the role he fulfills.

I'm not a big Ebron fan and I think he's a luxury piece that the Patriots can't afford right now, but he's not competing with Allen.

I agree. Honestly, I’d prefer even more defense. How much cap do we have to save for draft picks? I’ve read it counts and I’ve read it does not count. There’s an article talking about a cap within a cap which doesn’t make a lot of sense

 

[luuked]

I don't know why people are talking about Ebron and Allen as if they're comparable. One's an F tight end and the other's a Y. Ebron can't block and would be competing with players like James White, James Develin, and Jacob Hollister in terms of how he lines up and the role he fulfills.

I'm not a big Ebron fan and I think he's a luxury piece that the Patriots can't afford right now, but he's not competing with Allen.

Because thanks to fantasy football offensive players are measured by most people only by their stat sheet output.

You can see this when those bozos start their arguments about how Kelce or Graham had better seasons than Gronk and deserve the AP over him but totally ignore that neither of the two is close at all to Gronk when it comes to the second major TE job: blocking.

 

[luuked]

I agree. Honestly, I’d prefer even more defense. How much cap do we have to save for draft picks?
I’ve read it counts and I’ve read it does not count. There’s an article talking about a cap within a cap which doesn’t make a lot of sense

Until the rosters are set in September the rule of 51 is in place which means not all 90 players on the roster but only the top 51 salaries (and all prorated bonuses) count towards the cap. And since the majority of draft signings will be among the least paid players they will not all count initially towards the cap.

Unrelated to that each team also gets assigned a portion of their cap that is specific to draft signings (i.e. the rookie pool). This is the maximum amount of money that a team can use on rookie contracts. This is usually set by the picks a team has heading into the draft:

NFL Draft Resources and Contract Estimates

OverTheCap estimates the amount of space needed to sign a rookie class like this:

Rookie Pool – ($480,000 x number of picks)

Or in our case: ~ 6M - (480k * 7) = ~ 2.6M

 

[maust]

I agree. Honestly, I’d prefer even more defense. How much cap do we have to save for draft picks? I’ve read it counts and I’ve read it does not count. There’s an article talking about a cap within a cap which doesn’t make a lot of sense

The thing most folks have trouble wrapping their brain around when it comes to the Rookie Pool is that thanks to the 'rule of 51' it isn't a hard number. One of the best explanation I have seen is at OTC, you can find it here:
Explaining the NFL's Rookie Salary Cap | Over the Cap