Schefter: Ebron may visit New England

[maineman209]

Keeping a player who didn't live up to the contract he signed last year wouldn't seem the wisest course of action.

Allen didn't sign any contract last year. In fact, he's never sign a contract with the Pats. The contract he's working under was signed with the Colts back in 2016.

The Pats traded for Allen - and that contract - last spring.

Given that the Pats had five seasons of NFL tape on him at that point, and had played against him one more than one occasion, it seems reasonable to me to think that the Pats knew exactly what they were getting in terms of his skills and exactly how much it would cost them.

 

[50-yard-line]

What's BB's mantra? Do your job. Allen did his job - he did what was asked of him.

People act like a blocking TE is a dime-a-dozen, but when you look at the contracts THIS YEAR, you can see that's not the case. A blocking TE, who also has to go out and make some catches now and then - keep the defense at least respecting that he might break out and catch one, unlike, say, Fleming - has a ton of responsibilities on the field, and in a position that is among the most-injured.

When Allen caught a TD last year, the Pats' bench exploded. Looked to me like they were thrilled for him, and so I have to believe that they appreciate that he does the dirty and unsung work, and so suffers the slings and arrows of Madden players.

 

[signbabybrady]

Allen didn't sign any contract last year. In fact, he's never sign a contract with the Pats. The contract he's working under was signed with the Colts back in 2016.

The Pats traded for Allen - and that contract - last spring.

Given that the Pats had five seasons of NFL tape on him at that point, and had played against him one more than one occasion, it seems reasonable to me to think that the Pats knew exactly what they were getting in terms of his skills and exactly how much it would cost them.

I understand we traded for him. He still signed his contract at some point which we assumed control of and last year he didn't live up to it.

With what the Pats knew about him I think it's safe to assume they expected more than a good blocker and 10 catches, 86 yards and 1 TD. That's a decent game by Gronks standards.

 

[PatsFan2]

What's BB's mantra? Do your job. Allen did his job - he did what was asked of him.

People act like a blocking TE is a dime-a-dozen, but when you look at the contracts THIS YEAR, you can see that's not the case. A blocking TE, who also has to go out and make some catches now and then - keep the defense at least respecting that he might break out and catch one, unlike, say, Fleming - has a ton of responsibilities on the field, and in a position that is among the most-injured.

When Allen caught a TD last year, the Pats' bench exploded. Looked to me like they were thrilled for him, and so I have to believe that they appreciate that he does the dirty and unsung work, and so suffers the slings and arrows of Madden players.

In the pass catching department Allen is Horrible...86yds in 16 games?? If BB goes into the season with this on the Roster he needs brain surgery. They can get better in Draft or FA. For guy who is 28 Allen moves like he's 90 his receptions were painful to watch. I know half the time Defense's completely ignored him but Brady didn't even bother that should tell ya.

 

[50-yard-line]

In the pass catching department Allen is Horrible...86yds in 16 games?? If BB goes into the season with this on the Roster he needs brain surgery. They can get better in Draft or FA. For guy who is 28 Allen moves like he's 90 his receptions were painful to watch. I know half the time Defense's completely ignored him but Brady didn't even bother that should tell ya.

He was targeted 22 times, TOTAL (and at least two were actually throwaways). He wasn't in there to catch passes the majority of the time. They have this guy named Gronkowski...ever hear of him?

He did what he was told to do, was always positive.

Watch the play where Dion Lewis got the first down to seal the win vs. the Jags. Allen blocked THREE people on that play.

 

[maineman209]

You don't think that's in the plan? Even if it's not which is obviously a ludicrous thought McDermott or Garcia would still be better blockers than Allen and not much worse as receiving threats.

If your hypothesis is true - that an extra OL would be a better blocker than Allen - then whay didn't the Pats do just that? Why is it that Fleming, who's had extensive experience in a tackle-eligible role with the Pats, was barely used in that capacity last season - even before he began subbing for Waddle (who had been subbing for Cannon)? If Allen's blocking was so horrible that even a rookie OL would've been better, why is it that Croston stayed on the bench while Allen's snap percentages increased? Why is it that Allen's snap percentages increased in parallel with Dion Lewis' ascension to "lead RB"?

 

[PatsFan2]

He was targeted 22 times, TOTAL (and at least two were actually throwaways). He wasn't in there to catch passes the majority of the time. They have this guy named Gronkowski...ever hear of him?

He did what he was told to do, was always positive.

Watch the play where Dion Lewis got the first down to seal the win vs. the Jags. Allen blocked THREE people on that play.

50: I am not questioning Allen's blocking ability...I am questioning his reliance in the passing game. I wish we had kept Marty he's the only other TE that worked out after the criminal. Marty was complete. I wish we had taken a flier on George Kittle last year don't know what the hell BB and those Scouts were looking at a guy who is a Proven Blocker that can run and catch *heck of a value in the 5th*. He's Jimmy G's favorite target with the 49ers already. BB the Draft genius I tell ya is way overrated in that department and his drafts prove that.

 

[maineman209]

he didn't live up to it.

Let's be clear - he didn't live up to your expectations. The Pats, with all their experienced scouts, tape, direct on-the-field observations from competing against Allen may well have had extremely different expectations.

And the fact (not opinion) of how much they used him last season (instead of going another way by using an OL), appears to support the notion that Allen was meeting their expectations.

 

[Kontradiction]

He was targeted 22 times, TOTAL (and at least two were actually throwaways). He wasn't in there to catch passes the majority of the time. They have this guy named Gronkowski...ever hear of him?

He did what he was told to do, was always positive.

Watch the play where Dion Lewis got the first down to seal the win vs. the Jags. Allen blocked THREE people on that play.

Not just blocked. Demolished. His blocking is why I don't think the interest in Ebron is threatening to Allen in the least. It would most likely be competition for Hollister.

 

[PatsFan2]

I know this Team needs Defense and more Defense but in the upcoming Draft you just cannot rule our a Two way TE early on. Hollister and Allen are not the answers one can catch one can Block but neither can do both. Gotta go to the TE well again Gronk's years are numbered and it's just a matter of time before he gets injured or banged up again.Gotta plan for life without or after Gronk.

 

[50-yard-line]

50: I am not questioning Allen's blocking ability...I am questioning his reliance in the passing game. I wish we had kept Marty he's the only other TE that worked out after the criminal. Marty was complete. I wish we had taken a flier on George Kittle last year don't know what the hell BB and those Scouts were looking at a guy who is a Proven Blocker that can run and catch *heck of a value in the 5th. He's Jimmy G's favorite target in San Fran already. BB the Draft genius I tell ya is way overrated in that department and his drafts prove that.

Kittle was a 5th-round pick, whom I suspect got a lot more opportunity because he was on a crappy team. You think he would have had 63 targets in New England behind Gronk? This seems a lot like 20-20 hindsight to me.

I don't know how good a blocker he is, but Allen 15 pounds heavier. I do know how good and willing a blocker Allen is.

Oh, and look at Allen's rookie season: mirrors Kittle's.

Bennett? I love the guy. Hurt a lot lately, and went for more money. What's to say? I'd love him back, but he isn't asked to do the things Allen is and vice-versa.

 

[maineman209]

With what the Pats knew about him I think it's safe to assume they expected more than a good blocker and 10 catches, 86 yards and 1 TD.

No. It's not at all.

In the Pats offense, a TE who's a good blocker has always had value, even if he doesn't catch very much. Hooman averaged 7 catches for a little over 90 yards a season and the Pats kept him for three (during which time he scored only one TD).

In contrast, a TE who can catch but can't block is nearly useless in the Pats offense - so, buh-bye Tim Wright and AJ Derby (and others in the past).

 

[signbabybrady]

If your hypothesis is true - that an extra OL would be a better blocker than Allen - then whay didn't the Pats do just that? Why is it that Fleming, who's had extensive experience in a tackle-eligible role with the Pats, was barely used in that capacity last season - even before he began subbing for Waddle (who had been subbing for Cannon)? If Allen's blocking was so horrible that even a rookie OL would've been better, why is it that Croston stayed on the bench while Allen's snap percentages increased? Why is it that Allen's snap percentages increased in parallel with Dion Lewis' ascension to "lead RB"?

A lot goes into that. There were health concerns at Tackle and the obvious constraints of a 53 man roster and 45 active on game day. But forget his blocking we didn't even have someone else to back up Gronk. BB is master of using guys best traits. Again they did just fine the year before without Allen.

That was last year's problem, you tell me how we get more out of TE2 and TE3 while paying Allen what he's set to make this year? And god for bid Gronk gets hurt.

 

[50-yard-line]

If your hypothesis is true - that an extra OL would be a better blocker than Allen - then whay didn't the Pats do just that? Why is it that Fleming, who's had extensive experience in a tackle-eligible role with the Pats, was barely used in that capacity last season - even before he began subbing for Waddle (who had been subbing for Cannon)? If Allen's blocking was so horrible that even a rookie OL would've been better, why is it that Croston stayed on the bench while Allen's snap percentages increased? Why is it that Allen's snap percentages increased in parallel with Dion Lewis' ascension to "lead RB"?

You know this, but I'll say it anyway: an actual Tight End, who can run routes and catch the ball is more valuable than a sixth lineman in almost every instance. When Fleming is the TE, no one has to worry about him breaking into a route - well, maybe once a year, they'll pull a trick play.

Making a defense play honest is a big part of football (which is why I hate empty backfields on 3rd and short).

 

[signbabybrady]

No. It's not at all.

In the Pats offense, a TE who's a good blocker has always had value, even if he doesn't catch very much. Hooman averaged 7 catches for a little over 90 yards a season and the Pats kept him for three (during which time he scored only one TD).

In contrast, a TE who can catch but can't block is nearly useless in the Pats offense - so, buh-bye Tim Wright and AJ Derby (and others in the past).

Hooman was a vastly different type of investment than what we have in Allen. And only supports my idea that we could find someone else and have them as TE3. If I remember correct we found him on cut down day.

You guys are doing a great job of knocking Ebron but still not seeing how Allen at his money allows us to actually improve the position.

I'm not tied to Ebron just willing to try anything.

 

[PatsFan2]

Kittle was a 5th-round pick, whom I suspect got a lot more opportunity because he was on a crappy team. You think he would have had 63 targets in New England behind Gronk? This seems a lot like 20-20 hindsight to me.

I don't know how good a blocker he is, but Allen 15 pounds heavier. I do know how good and willing a blocker Allen is.

Oh, and look at Allen's rookie season: mirrors Kittle's.

Bennett? I love the guy. Hurt a lot lately, and went for more money. What's to say? I'd love him back, but he isn't asked to do the things Allen is and vice-versa.

50: Kittle was brought to my attention in the Draft Forum last year he's from a predominantly running school Iowa. He can do it all and would have been a Great value pick for us on Day 3. I wish some of those Patriot Scouts paid attention to our Draft Forum. That said Marty when healthy is a complete TE which Allen is not.

 

[50-yard-line]

A lot goes into that. There were health concerns at Tackle and the obvious constraints of a 53 man roster and 45 active on game day. But forget his blocking we didn't even have someone else to back up Gronk. BB is master of using guys best traits. Again they did just fine the year before without Allen.

That was last year's problem, you tell me how we get more out of TE2 and TE3 while paying Allen what he's set to make this year? And god for bid Gronk gets hurt.

You're answering your own question. If Gronk gets hurt, Allen is ALSO a capable pass catcher. He's had a couple of seasons over 500 yards. If Gronk gets hurt, the Pats have a TE who can catch.

Of course they should try to find a true 2-way TE stud. So should every team. It's a very rare beast. Anyone with such promise is probably off the board before the Pats pick. They only got Gronk because of his back concerns.

A couple of years ago, the TE class was touted as all-world, with 3 blue-chippers and a few others expecting to be big contributors. The only one who has remotely shown the chops is ASJ.

 

[signbabybrady]

@maineman209 are you just trolling me because I said I didn't want to get in a back and forth over this. Ebron sux and Allen Sux let's have neither and find something else. But between the two I'd take my chances on Ebron you'd obviously take Allen. Agree to disagree and have a good day.

 

[signbabybrady]

You're answering your own question. If Gronk gets hurt, Allen is ALSO a capable pass catcher. He's had a couple of seasons over 500 yards. If Gronk gets hurt, the Pats have a TE who can catch.

Of course they should try to find a true 2-way TE stud. So should every team. It's a very rare beast. Anyone with such promise is probably off the board before the Pats pick. They only got Gronk because of his back concerns.

A couple of years ago, the TE class was touted as all-world, with 3 blue-chippers and a few others expecting to be big contributors. The only one who has remotely shown the chops is ASJ.

Once and it was over 5 years ago. Agree it's tough to find 2 way TEs. Disagree that we should pack it in and just live with Allen. But agree to disagree with you as well. And good day to you as well.

 

[PatsFan2]

You're answering your own question. If Gronk gets hurt, Allen is ALSO a capable pass catcher.

Sorry 50 but had to stop reading right there...the 2017 Dwayne Allen look like he's at the beginning of the end of being a capable pass catcher in this league.