Question for Kraft Supporters

[Chris Stevenson]

The owners plotted against the Patriots. Kraft had to eat it and he knew it. So he ate it in the confidence that his team could overcome the obstacle and they did.

We've already had our revenge. Our revenge came in the form of Goodell thrusting the trophy angrily into Kraft's hands and that long, awkward handshake he had with TB12. That's exactly what the owners were trying to prevent and we made it happen anyway.

We are never getting the draft pick back, it's a sunk cost, ignore it. Brady is never going to get the 4 games back, we went 3-1 in those games, it didn't hurt us -- in fact it might have put Tom in better position to compete in SB51.

When you can take an obstacle and either overcome it or turn it to your advantage, you've shown your quality. It might not have been fair, but sometimes life isn't fair and you have to overcome things. Which is what the NEP did. I'm proud of them. And I don't mind if Kraft is business-as-usual as an owner after the fact.

Nor do I mind that he went to an effort to keep Roger Goodell. Goodell is not the enemy. He's a tool of the enemy, who will still be there long after Goodell is gone.

After all, a new commissioner might be braver about enforcing the machinations of jealous owners. With Goodell, he's burnt his hand once, and might think twice before sticking it in the fire again.

I somewhat agree, but where does it end? I mean, the guy was at an opioid fundraiser the other night, addressed the stupid Wickersham once, after he's already done it, and some gal was continuing to badger him after he politely said he was done talking about altogether.

This is what I mean....he's done it to himself, even if he didn't deserve it in the first place.

I would have handled it completely differently, and I readily admit, I have no way to connect with a billionaire where every single move is made, where it's about money only. I am more of a person who believes that takes 2nd fiddle to principle and taking a stand.

In all seriousness, a month ago I asked "what will the media/Goodell's attack be this year to try to distract our team?'.....And, voila, here comes Seth Wickersham with a piece of obvious fiction.

Again, a lawsuit against the Herald, instead of being so nice, would have worked and stopped this.

He also should have encouraged Brady to sue Goodell for defamation, as he wouldn't even have had to have to be connected to that kind of a suit.

Goodell absolutely IS the enemy. Saying he works for the owners is an excuse. Note how no other pro sports commissioners behave this way or sell out to ruin the sport in the name of money.

Goodell enables this. He started it, agreed to it, and it's stuff the honorable Tagliabue was not willing to do, which is WHY Woody Johnson handpicked Goodell. These are not conicidences.

Once NE won 3 Sbs in 4 years, they all sat around and said "what are we going to do about Kraft/BB and Brady"...?

And, Kraft knows this. He's not dumb. He's been intentionally ignorant.

Season tickets in my family since 1978. Names engraved on the seats. I go usually once a year and was at the SD game this year. I have nothing have incredible admiration for Kraft as a businessman, philantrophist, his sacrifice and vision. he's bascially solely responsible for flipping the Boston sports scene on its collective head, too. Brilliant stuff.

I've lived out of the area for 20 years in 2 different parts (SE and the Midwest), and I feel I have a pretty good handle on how the Pats are seen throughout the country.

I don't even talk NFL with co-workers because it's so awkward. I know the truth, as do real pats fans, but Kraft did nothing to help us.

He should have been lobbying to fire Goodell during The Ray Rice Affair, but if he couldn't be canned then, when can Goodell be thrown out?

Why didn't Kraft resign from the board and not approve Goodell's deal with Jerry Jones? That would have been enough money on side of the table to get rid of him, but I think I know why.....It has to do with CTE and their quest for international expansion, wiith Goodell already in too deep with covering up lawsuits about CTE, and how a new commissioner may not be corrupt enough to be allowed in the door at 345 Park Ave.

Ever notice nothing ever adds up or operates like a normal billion dollar operation?

 

[Kontradiction]

i somewhat agree, but where does it end? I mean, the guy was at an opioid fundraiser the other night, addressed the stupid Wickersham once, after he's already done it, and some gal was continuing to badger him after he politely said he was done talking about altogether.

This is what I mean....he's done it to himself, even if he didn't deserve it in the first place.

I would have handled it completely differently, and I readily admit, I have no way to connect with a billionaire where every single move is made, where it's about money only. I am more of a person who believes that takes 2nd fiddle to principle and taking a stand.

In all seriousness, a month ago I asked "what will the media/Goodell's attack be this year to try to distract our team?'.....And, voila, here comes Seth Wickersham with a piece of obvious fiction.

Again, a lawsuit against the Herald, instead of being so nice, would have worked and stopped this.

He also should have encouraged Brady to sue Goodell for defamation, as he wouldn't even have had to have to be connected to that kind of a suit.

Goodell absolutely IS the enemy. Saying he works for the owners is an excuse. Note how no other pro sports commissioners behave this way or sell out to ruin the sport in the name of money.

It's all an excuse. You're new here, but there are people that can't separate the good that Kraft is done from the bad that he's done. These threads are classically entertaining to watch. Pure high comedy. The amount of mental gymnastics done to defend Kraft while, at the same time, condemning Goodell should be an Olympic sport. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[IllegalContact]

It's all an excuse. You're new here, but there are people that can't separate the good that Kraft is done from the bad that he's done. These threads are classically entertaining to watch. Pure high comedy. The amount of mental gymnastics done to defend Kraft while, at the same time, condemning Goodell should be an Olympic sport. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[Kontradiction]

6

 

[Chris Stevenson]

It's all an excuse. You're new here, but there are people that can't separate the good that Kraft is done from the bad that he's done. These threads are classically entertaining to watch. Pure high comedy. The amount of mental gymnastics done to defend Kraft while, at the same time, condemning Goodell should be an Olympic sport. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

Very similar to the great stuff Brady has done and when he under-performs in a postseason game.

Fans run to deflect and blame everything under the moon, except for a bad Brady decision or throw, etc.

It's ridiculous to not be able to talk about both.

 

[IllegalContact]

6

 

[Kontradiction]

First reply in 48 minutes. You’re the only one keeping the “stupid” thread that you “don’t give a **** about” alive. Otherwise it was falling down the main page like the Titanic after it hit an ice berg. Good movie, though.

7.

 

[mcmurtry86]

I'm never going to let it go. These people aren't going to all of a sudden start having integrity again all on their own. They will keep doing what they've done because there'll always be those willing to look the other way so they don't have their enjoyment curtailed. I don't care to waste my emotional energy rooting against a rigged system where draconian punishments are rained down from on high and the one person who has any chance of protecting the franchise has advocated his position to the very people that want to destroy his franchise.

As far as it being over and inconsequential, etc. I hope you remember you said when you have to hear "yeah, but the cheating" every time the Pats are mentioned for the rest of your life. You can thank Kraft for that.

"Yeah but cheating" doesn't affect my memories of watching the team win.

Who cares what other people say? I watch football to see my favorite team win. It's entertainment. If others think the Pats cheated, it doesn't matter as long as the record books still have those Super Bowl wins

I swear, some people's enjoyment of sports hinges on their ability to "win" drunken bar arguments about who is the best this and who is the better that. I've seen the Pats win 5 Super Bowls in 16 years. That's as good as it gets for a sports fan. Other people thinking the Pats cheated is totally irrelevant

 

[fnordcircle]

Pretty disappointed.

If Tom Brady can forgive him, I can, but yeah, pretty disappointed. I do sometimes wonder if there's a power struggle with Mara where Kraft thinks the long term interests of the team are best served by doing what it takes to stay in position as one of the top owners.

Overall, it sucks.

 

[Former Fan]

1. He kept the team in NE when it could have been moved
2. He hired BB which began a run that only most fans prior to 2001 couldn't even dream of. I had 30 years in ****sville prior to that.
3. he is running a billion dollar business and has to make decision that most of us can't even understand.

Are those enough reasons?

Not for me. Not even close.

So your postulation is that, prior to Goodell, the 32 did give a **** about "the integrity of the competition"?

I have no evidence, but just because we are now able to see deeply into the actions of the corrupt NFL and know what a bunch of petty scumbags they all due to the internets and the exposure of how everything and anything is does not make me think "oh, things must have changed from the good old days". It makes me think "oh, this stuff has probably been going on since time began but we just didn't know about it in the days of tightly controlled media narratives".

No. I now realize that they were scumbags all along. It took this incident to make me see it. I can't go back in time and undo my fandom, but I can change my actions going forward based on new information.

 

[Former Fan]

Pretty disappointed.

If Tom Brady can forgive him, I can, but yeah, pretty disappointed. I do sometimes wonder if there's a power struggle with Mara where Kraft thinks the long term interests of the team are best served by doing what it takes to stay in position as one of the top owners.

Overall, it sucks.

But he's not a top owner. Sure, they let him do all the work on all these committees, but when he needs someone to have his back they all tell him to go get his shine box. And he does. Nobody actually respects him.

 

[Soliel]

That's why I can't be a fan anymore. If you can't trust the owner to have the franchise's back, why bother?

I feel you bro. I can not defend kraft as his actions speak louder than words, there’s no moral high ground, no nothing for anyone to really stand on. So, what I do to keep sane is remember that the team is separate from him I guess. I mean, other owners would have went farther. I hate Jones but imagine that deflate crap happening over there lmao. No way would he lay down for that.
However, the situation is different in some unseen way that is ambiguous to the average guy evidently. Not sure on that

 

[mosslost]

How do you reconcile the fact that Kraft was not only on board for the Goodell extension, but was a member of the compensation committee that agreed to give him $40+M/year/?

Is this that "long game" you were talking about, in that fantasy where he was really, really pissed as Goodell but was just hiding it until he could strike? Is that still his plan, do you think?

Why would you even refer to someone as a "Kraft Supporter" or non-supporter. Seems like a silly waste of time.

 

[IllegalContact]

First reply in 48 minutes. You’re the only one keeping the “stupid” thread that you “don’t give a **** about” alive. Otherwise it was falling down the main page like the Titanic after it hit an ice berg. Good movie, though.

7.

it has a life of it's own without me......you, on the other hand, have an emotional need to try to convince me, or yourself, or anyone willing to listen that I care

 

[Kontradiction]

it has a life of it's own without me......you, on the other hand, have an emotional need to try to convince me, or yourself, or anyone willing to listen that I care

8

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Here's how this thread will go...

Party 1: "Kraft has made some decisions regarding Goodell that were not in the best interest of Brady or the team or the league as a whole."

Party 2: "WEL Y DO U ROOT 4 TEAM STILL GO FIND ANOHTER TEAM LOL. KRAFT BEST COULD HAVE MOVEED TEAM TO ST. LEWIS."

You left out:
"Party 3: Ray Lewis killed a guy."

 

[Kontradiction]

You left out:
"Party 3: Ray Lewis killed a guy."

I just assumed that was all parties involved.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

If Kraft was a guy who put money first, he never would have put up 187MM to buy the worst team in the NFL with the worst (by far) stadium in the league.

Tell your "he doesn't put money first" story to the long, long-time season ticket holders who got totally screwed to build that idiotic and completely unnecessary (except to try to rake in $, that is) Optum Lounge.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, we're up to 80 messages or so, during the week before a Playoff Game!, rehashing the argument/discussion about Robert Kraft that's been going on out here for three years (or 10 years if the Reference Point is Spygate).

Not sure what good it's going to do. People have all taken their positions and not many are going to change their minds.

But, somehow we're all still out here, discussing and (unless one is a "Former Fan") supporting the team that is owned, lock, stock and barrel by one Robert Kraft, some in spite of him, some in gratitude to him, some in a combination of both...none of which are going to be resolved today.

All I'll say is that, as I look around the NFL and as I consider the Pats success over the last 17 seasons, I don't see another owner I'd rather have for the Patriots than Robert Kraft, despite any and all of his errors and misjudgments, especially ______________ and the time when he _______________ and don't forget the fact that he___________________ (everyone, as I have done mentally, should fill in the blanks from their perspective).

We're on to Tennessee!

 

[Former Fan]

Well, we're up to 80 messages or so, during the week before a Playoff Game!, rehashing the argument/discussion about Robert Kraft that's been going on out here for three years (or 10 years if the Reference Point is Spygate).

Not sure what good it's going to do. People have all taken their positions and not many are going to change their minds.

But, somehow we're all still out here, discussing and (unless one is a "Former Fan") supporting the team that is owned, lock, stock and barrel by one Robert Kraft, some in spite of him, some in gratitude to him, some in a combination of both...none of which are going to be resolved today.

All I'll say is that, as I look around the NFL and as I consider the Pats success over the last 17 seasons, I don't see another owner I'd rather have for the Patriots than Robert Kraft, despite any and all of his errors and misjudgments, especially ______________ and the time when he _______________ and don't forget the fact that he___________________ (everyone, as I have done mentally, should fill in the blanks from their perspective).

We're on to Tennessee!

There has been some relatively new developments (the Goodell extension) and wanted to see how people would change their narrative now that the "he secretly hates Goodell and is biding his time" narrative looks even more ridiculous than it did when they made it up originally.

News flash: Nothing discussed on this board is ever going to solve anything, or resolve anything. If people are too busy discussing other things the thread will die. If not, it wont. That's how these things work.

You're out of your mind if you wouldn't choose Mara or Rooney over Kraft. You know, the guys who actually have influence in the owners room. The ones that tell the shine boy to go get his box. The ones who have franchises that aren't covered in the stink of "cheaters".